Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (187 Viewers)

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clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
riyadhskyblue said:
There have no flights in or out for the past 10 days from any country. The country is on a serious lockdown and is scheduled to last another eleven days.
I believe there is a desire to open for Ramadan to get the pilgrims to Mecca so hopefully that will open the skies.
What most may not know is that Saudi Arabia is the number 1 tourist destination in the world for religious reasons and the country relies on that income nearly as much as oil which is diminishing in both quantities and importance.!
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they've cancelled Haj though haven't they?
 
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SkyBlueCRJ

Well-Known Member
Ring Of Steel said:
Not an answer, but we'll go with it.

Boris Johnson selects his team. He chooses which advice to follow. He has a duty to challenge his advisors where he feels something is not in the public interest. He is responsible for the wellbeing of 67 million people. He has to be judicious in selecting what path to follow and the expectation is that he makes his choices based on all available expertise and evidence from all sources.

He singularly failed to do any of this.

The buck stops with him, he is the man in the chair, he is responsible.

Stop with the "anti Tory rhetoric" nonsense, this is "anti incompetent rhetoric"
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Well it is an answer because you're claiming I've said something I haven't?

How do you know he hasn't challenged them? Are you in the Corba meetings?

If you'd actually read my post instead of going on yet another one of your rants that reek of illusory superiority, you would have seen I've already stated that he's probably
listened to his advisors too much and that he does have a duty to take initiative on such matters. So you've just actually agreed with what I've said.

That's your opinion but it's far too black and white so I simply can't agree with you on that.
 
Ring Of Steel

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
SkyBlueCRJ said:
Well it is an answer because you're claiming I've said something I haven't?

How do you know he hasn't challenged them? Are you in the Corba meetings?

If you'd actually read my post instead of going on yet another one of your rants that reek of illusory superiority, you would have seen I've already stated that he's probably
listened to his advisors too much and that he does have a duty to take initiative on such matters. So you've just actually agreed with what I've said.

That's your opinion but it's far too black and white so I simply can't agree with you on that.
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Yeah you're not too good at this with your "Corba" meetings and semantic gymnastics, but ok.

I don't care about politics, hate it in fact, but I do prefer to apportion responsibility to the right people instead of making excuses- best thing here is you carry on doing what you do and we agree to disagree, its all good.
 
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SkyBlueCRJ

Well-Known Member
Ring Of Steel said:
Yeah you're not too good at this with your "Corba" meetings and semantic gymnastics, but ok.

I don't care about politics, hate it in fact, but I do prefer to apportion responsibility to the right people instead of making excuses- best thing here is you carry on doing what you do and we agree to disagree, its all good.
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I don't particularly like politics either - certainly not in its current form as I believe there's very few that have the best interests of the country top of mind and are simply in politics to further their careers. Hence why voting in the general election for me, as I'm sure it was for many, was painful as it was essentially making a decision on the lesser evil.

So I wouldn't say I'm particularly partisan but I will back Boris' corner when people try to push their own political agenda's by claiming he's solely responsible for pushing herd immunity, as the blame should rightly be shared. That's not making excuses that's perfectly reasonable as the last time I checked we don't live under a dictatorship and therefore other people also have to be held to account.
 
Ring Of Steel

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
SkyBlueCRJ said:
I don't particularly like politics either - certainly not in its current form as I believe there's very few that have the best interests of the country top of mind and are simply in politics to further their careers. Hence why voting in the general election for me, as I'm sure it was for many, was painful as it was essentially making a decision on the lesser evil.

So I wouldn't say I'm particularly partisan but I will back Boris' corner when people try to push their own political agenda's by claiming he's solely responsible for pushing herd immunity as the blame should rightly be shared. That's not making excuses that's perfectly reasonable as the last time I checked we don't live under a dictatorship and therefore other people have to be held to account.
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I can agree with you on that- aside from I don't have a political agenda.
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
SkyBlueCRJ said:
I don't particularly like politics either - certainly not in its current form as I believe there's very few that have the best interests of the country top of mind and are simply in politics to further their careers. Hence why voting in the general election for me, as I'm sure it was for many, was painful as it was essentially making a decision on the lesser evil.

So I wouldn't say I'm particularly partisan but I will back Boris' corner when people try to push their own political agenda's by claiming he's solely responsible for pushing herd immunity, as the blame should rightly be shared. That's not making excuses that's perfectly reasonable as the last time I checked we don't live under a dictatorship and therefore other people also have to be held to account.
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The Prime Minister is no longer ultimately responsible for ministerial decisions, OK then
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
SkyBlueCRJ said:
Granted I'll agree that Boris' hesitancy to act in implementing draconian measures sooner will inevitably cost lives but to solely blame him for pushing herd immunity is questionable to say the least. Surely the blame for that ridiculous battle plan against the virus should be against Patrick Vallace? Realistically it's not in Boris' remit to oppose scientific advise as he's no more qualified to do that than you or I. To suggest otherwise IMO just highlights people's bias against him.
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Being PM means balancing medical, scientific, economic, moral and political concerns and advice. You don’t just do what you’re told by “the expert”. Advisors advise and ministers decide as the saying goes.

Otherwise what’s the point of a PM?

People seem to think it’s just some jolly bloke who you could drink a pint with like voting on Love Island or something. It’s a ridiculously tough job with serious consequences and that’s why you should elect serious, capable people who are across the detail. Which Johnson isn’t. More importantly neither are any of his cabinet or really back benches. He purged all serious politicians over Brexit ideology.
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
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SkyBlueCRJ

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Being PM means balancing medical, scientific, economic, moral and political concerns and advice. You don’t just do what you’re told by “the expert”. Advisors advise and ministers decide as the saying goes.

Otherwise what’s the point of a PM?

People seem to think it’s just some jolly bloke who you could drink a pint with like voting on Love Island or something. It’s a ridiculously tough job with serious consequences and that’s why you should elect serious, capable people who are across the detail. Which Johnson isn’t. More importantly neither are any of his cabinet or really back benches. He purged all serious politicians over Brexit ideology.
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But if the advisors get it wrong then how is that solely Boris' fault? Last time I checked Boris doesn't have a PhD and therefore does not have the expertise to make sole decisions on how to tackle a pandemic - that is left to the experts.

Therefore on such matters he may have to take the recommendations from the relevant advisors more literally. Yes Boris is the decision maker, and as I've said for the umpteenth time, if you would've read my posts you would've seen that as a result of being PM he has to take a proportion of the blame as he is the decision maker and unfortunately that is part and parcel of the job description. But if you are inferring that exempts either Cummings or Vallance then with the greatest respect your own political bias has blinded you.

Boris hasn't dealt with it well - I think that's a pretty well-established opinion amongst most. But people are forgetting that his advisors are also the ones that pushed to play guinea pig with the country's population. All should be held to account not just Boris.
 
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