Ideal Scenario (5 Viewers)

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

It doesn't matter if they're not happy the rules are applied consistently

But what rule states the season should be finished early and final placings decided on PPG? Or indeed the table is called as stands? Or that the season should be voided by a certain date? It's not in there. They can't apply a rule that doesn't exist. Hence why it's a litigation nightmare as clubs will be claiming they missed out whatever way they do it unless they play the remaining games.

 

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[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The ‘least bad’ way is to use PPG based on previous games played IMO. It isn’t ideal, but what solution is? .

Of course it's not ideal. What if you've got only a slightly lower PPG than someone else but you've got loads of teams at the bottom of the league to play while another has the top teams?

You've probably done better than them up to this point because you've got almost as many points having played harder fixtures.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Slightly less flippantly, I have thought from the start of this situation that completing the season in any way that doesn’t introduce an element of ‘unfairness’ to it is basically impossible. There will always be some team that feels hard done to (which makes it even more ridiculous that they don’t have a plan for this sort of situation), but we are where we are.

The ‘least bad’ way is to use PPG based on previous games played IMO. It isn’t ideal, but what solution is? Voiding the season is for spiteful (see Liverpool) or potentially relegated teams to push.

Whatever mechanism is used to decide (if a decision is to be made) sees us win the league. Let the rest take them to court (if they can find a pro-bono legal team to take their case on).

Like I said before facts must outweigh prediction

 

[fernandopartridge]

Of course it's not ideal. What if you've got only a slightly lower PPG than someone else but you've got loads of teams at the bottom of the league to play while another has the top teams?

You've probably done better than them up to this point because you've got almost as many points having played harder fixtures.

It's irrelevant

 

[thekidfromstrettoncamp]

Sky Blue Dreamer Back on 21March I put a post on (time on your hands) I had a go having seen it in a Doncaster paper just to see if i could do better than them. I did some number crunching thought people might have a go. It never took off. I took into account home and away averages like Sunderland have played 19 home games and their home record is far better than their away like yourself my points total left them outside the play off's HA HA

 

[BornSlippySkyBlue]

Like I said before facts must outweigh prediction

So we use the only facts we have (previous games this season) to predict the outcome. Don’t see an alternative apart from voiding the season, and that’s the worst alternative there is.

 

[fernandopartridge]

So we use the only facts we have (previous games this season) to predict the outcome. Don’t see an alternative apart from voiding the season, and that’s the worst alternative there is.

Agreed, I wasn't arguing with you.

 

[BornSlippySkyBlue]

Of course it's not ideal. What if you've got only a slightly lower PPG than someone else but you've got loads of teams at the bottom of the league to play while another has the top teams?

You've probably done better than them up to this point because you've got almost as many points having played harder fixtures.

I think everyone agrees that there isn’t a perfect solution, so what’s the next best?

Can anyone, anywhere, come up with a better solution than PPG (however it is implemented)?

I’ve yet to see an argument in favour of voiding the season that doesn’t feel like sour grapes to some extent.

Of course it’s hard not to be biased in the opposite direction, but I genuinely think I’d agree with PPG even if we would miss out.

 

[TTG]

Call it points per game now. I highly doubt the season is finishing. We are in this for the long haul.

I’ll even call next season possibly not starting on time by a long way.

But if we are in this for the long haul, why do it now, jist wait still we are about to get out to decide - imagine if they finish then season tomorrow but then we get out of isolation in like a month!

 

[hill83]

But if we are in this for the long haul, why do it now, jist wait still we are about to get out to decide - imagine if they finish then season tomorrow but then we get out of isolation in like a month!

Same reason I said before

 

[Wyken Sky Blue]

I think we all agree we don't want to season to be voided.

Therefore options as follows:

• Finish the season now as it is
• Finish the season now but on a PPG basis
• Complete the season, it takes as long as it takes.

I voted to finish the season as this is the fairest for every team in the league. Everyone plays 38/44/46 games and had their fair chance of obtaining the points they want on the pitch.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

It's irrelevant

And if CCFC were the team sitting a point off a promotion place with a much easier run in would you be so keen to say it was 'irrelevant' then?

 

[fernandopartridge]

And if CCFC were the team sitting a point off a promotion place with a much easier run in would you be so keen to say it was 'irrelevant' then?

What I am saying is irrelevant is where the teams you are playing are placed in the league, and yes I would. The unknown cannot hold equal to or greater weight than the known. So it is basically irrelevant who you're playing next and where they are in the league, as it is prejudicing the outcome.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I think everyone agrees that there isn’t a perfect solution, so what’s the next best?

Can anyone, anywhere, come up with a better solution than PPG (however it is implemented)?

Yes, it been mentioned on here numerous times. You indefinitely postpone next season to finish this one. If we then have time to play next season in a shortened time frame great. If not it gets cancelled and we start with 2021/22.

If it was written in the rules of the game that this was how a season should finish under some kind of emergency then fine because everyone would've known the possibility before the start. But to just make it up on the fly isn't acceptable. Would it be acceptable if they said due to time constraints we're only going to play 5-a-side 30 minutes games to make it quicker to finish would that be acceptable? Or would you say they're just making it up as they go along?

Don't get me wrong, if it goes PPG and we go up then I'll take it. But that's because we're CCFC fans and we're top and it works in our favour. West Ham were pushing for voiding the season because that would work in their favour. If we were in a relegation place but more than capable of getting out of it would you be so keen to end it on PPG? Or in the play-off places and they decided top three on PPG go up would you be happy?

Karma is a bitch and she usually comes back to bite you eventually.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

What I am saying is irrelevant is where the teams you are playing are placed in the league, and yes I would. The unknown cannot hold equal to or greater weight than the known. So it is basically irrelevant who you're playing next and where they are in the league, as it is prejudicing the outcome.

Hence why I did an xPPG table. The PPG (absolute known) takes on much more weight than the x (unknown but highly probable) which gives a minor adjustment to it factoring in the likely outcomes.

But the 'known' also includes that some teams are down the bottom and struggling and others are at the top and have performed well and this affects the likely outcome - if it doesn't whats the point in betting odds? Both teams should have the same odds because you can't factor in the unknown because the game hasn't been played. So if you know this and also know some teams have more games against struggling teams while others play teams that are winning a lot.

So let's say they went PPG and top three get promoted. We were in fourth and a point behind on the same games played but we had the bottom nine teams to play while the team in 3rd had the top 11 (less themselves and us in fourth). Would you say that that was completely irrelevant and there wouldn't be a high likelihood we would overturn them to take third, or go even higher? It might not be known but it's highly probable. It isn't prejudicing the outcome, it's reflecting the likelihood of the outcome.

Look at that F1 season where Hamilton won the Championship on the final corner by overtaking someone. A lap to go he was a long way off taking the position needed but caught up due to another car being on the wrong tyres and was lapping really slowly. Had they just decided to call that off 5 laps early it would've materially affected the outcome.

If the ref had blown early in that Arsenal-Liverpool game that saw Michael Thomas win them the league, or when Aguero scored for Man City it'd have totally changed the outcome.

We're not even sure that even if they did predict the table that promotion/relegation is going to occur - for all we know they could say we're not doing it because the season wasn't officially completed. And that would be fine to everyone wanting PPG because apparently it's OK to just make arbitrary decisions on the outcome not specifically set out in the rules. Would everyone still want PPG if that were the case, or would you then change your mind to finishing the season so we had a chance to go up?

 

[thekidfromstrettoncamp]

The only way to go in my opinion is to finish the season how ever long it takes. Think of all the shit there would be from our owners if it was void.PPG would lead to all sorts of litigation from certain other clubs saying look at the last 6 or so many games our form was better than a rival.It would put people off going to games .You could not finishing the season as it stands as some teams in our league have played 34 some 35 some 36. the only way is to finish the seasonon the pitches.

 

[chiefdave]

IMO there's no point ending this season early when you have no idea what is happening months down the line. What happens if you end this season as 10 games were missed but then the go ahead for next season isn't given until September and 10 games have been missed. Do we cancel that one as well?

 

[fernandopartridge]

Hence why I did an xPPG table. The PPG (absolute known) takes on much more weight than the x (unknown but highly probable) which gives a minor adjustment to it factoring in the likely outcomes.

But the 'known' also includes that some teams are down the bottom and struggling and others are at the top and have performed well and this affects the likely outcome - if it doesn't whats the point in betting odds? Both teams should have the same odds because you can't factor in the unknown because the game hasn't been played. So if you know this and also know some teams have more games against struggling teams while others play teams that are winning a lot.

So let's say they went PPG and top three get promoted. We were in fourth and a point behind on the same games played but we had the bottom nine teams to play while the team in 3rd had the top 11 (less themselves and us in fourth). Would you say that that was completely irrelevant and there wouldn't be a high likelihood we would overturn them to take third, or go even higher? It might not be known but it's highly probable. It isn't prejudicing the outcome, it's reflecting the likelihood of the outcome.

Look at that F1 season where Hamilton won the Championship on the final corner by overtaking someone. A lap to go he was a long way off taking the position needed but caught up due to another car being on the wrong tyres and was lapping really slowly. Had they just decided to call that off 5 laps early it would've materially affected the outcome.

If the ref had blown early in that Arsenal-Liverpool game that saw Michael Thomas win them the league, or when Aguero scored for Man City it'd have totally changed the outcome.

We're not even sure that even if they did predict the table that promotion/relegation is going to occur - for all we know they could say we're not doing it because the season wasn't officially completed. And that would be fine to everyone wanting PPG because apparently it's OK to just make arbitrary decisions on the outcome not specifically set out in the rules. Would everyone still want PPG if that were the case, or would you then change your mind to finishing the season so we had a chance to go up?

I think the xPPG is reasonable, you could even apply it xPPG away and xPPG home if you wanted to.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I think the xPPG is reasonable, you could even apply it xPPG away and xPPG home if you wanted to.

Yes you could. But I'm not working all that out!

 

[Flying Fokker]

Yes you could. But I'm not working all that out!

City will be about 5th Home and First away. (Assuming you ignore the long run of away games without a win).

We came up on the rails in all of this. Unpredictably steady performance for City. Always in touching distance of the playoffs but with the impetus to push forwards. I thought the draws would be our downfall.

 

[shepardo01]

WELL WORTH A READ - STATEMENT FROM LEAMINGTON FC.

1. Worth noting last paragraph about contracts.
2. Also worth noting that Leamington are step 2 of Non League, 3 levels below us,
3. ..and that step 3 and below (sphinx/Cov Utd step 5) have had their seasons wiped - including those who were already MATHEMATICALLY PROMOTED!

It's a fairly long one, but interesting what discussions have taken place:

"Many of you may well be wondering what is going to be the outcome for Season 2019-20 in light of the Coronaviruspandemic and why you have not heard anything from the club in recent days.

Simply put, it is because we ourselves do not know. The current situation is that all National League members, including our club, were asked a week ago to vote on a resolution that the season be ended without any further league matches being played. Clubs were asked to return their vote as a matter of urgency but in reality, the laws of such matters are that clubscould only be given a deadline of 7th May. The voting structure of the NationalLeague is that all 24 National League clubs have one vote each whilst the National League North (NLN) and National League South (NLS) clubs each have a collective four votes each. At this moment in timewe await an update from the NationalLeague Board on the outcome, which will only come when they are in receipt of amajority number of votes either in favour of or against the resolution.

Should the resolution be passed, thenclubs will then be asked to vote on their preferred options for how the seasonshould be concluded. These willundoubtedly cover a range of options of which we have no firm knowledge.Discussions across football on that topic over recent weeks have ranged from: Null and Void; Points per Game (PPG) forremaining games based on a club'saverage PPG thus far; Promote teams in the current two top spots in each league along with a number of other possible variations. Should the resolution fail then I presume we can add completing theseason to the mix.

As you can see from the above, it's a hugely fluid situation. Just these past few days ,the EFL (Leagues One and Two)announced that their preferred position would be to resume the current season at some time in the future, thus aligning themselves with the Premiership and Championship. With the lockdown being extended for a further three weeks and the health of the nation quite rightly at the forefront of everything, the perceived wisdom is that there is no chance of anyfootball taking place before the 1st June and even that is a highly questionable unknown. If you factor in that UEFA may be looking to hold the final of the Champions League on 29 August, then the degree of uncertainty is pronounced. Where does that place us all for the commencement of Season 2020/2021?

Contracts of players at Step 2 (NLN andNLS) largely end on the last day of the season although some players will have 52-week contracts that conclude on 30th June. Whilst FIFA have provided guidance on how contracts may be rolled on for an extended seasons end, respected sports lawyers have advised that under English law no player can be forced to extend his/her contract. We certainly sit in uncharted waters!"

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

WELL WORTH A READ - STATEMENT FROM LEAMINGTON FC.

1. Worth noting last paragraph about contracts.
2. Also worth noting that Leamington are step 2 of Non League, 3 levels below us,
3. ..and that step 3 and below (sphinx/Cov Utd step 5) have had their seasons wiped - including those who were already MATHEMATICALLY PROMOTED!

It's a fairly long one, but interesting what discussions have taken place:

"Many of you may well be wondering what is going to be the outcome for Season 2019-20 in light of the Coronaviruspandemic and why you have not heard anything from the club in recent days.

Simply put, it is because we ourselves do not know. The current situation is that all National League members, including our club, were asked a week ago to vote on a resolution that the season be ended without any further league matches being played. Clubs were asked to return their vote as a matter of urgency but in reality, the laws of such matters are that clubscould only be given a deadline of 7th May. The voting structure of the NationalLeague is that all 24 National League clubs have one vote each whilst the National League North (NLN) and National League South (NLS) clubs each have a collective four votes each. At this moment in timewe await an update from the NationalLeague Board on the outcome, which will only come when they are in receipt of amajority number of votes either in favour of or against the resolution.

Should the resolution be passed, thenclubs will then be asked to vote on their preferred options for how the seasonshould be concluded. These willundoubtedly cover a range of options of which we have no firm knowledge.Discussions across football on that topic over recent weeks have ranged from: Null and Void; Points per Game (PPG) forremaining games based on a club'saverage PPG thus far; Promote teams in the current two top spots in each league along with a number of other possible variations. Should the resolution fail then I presume we can add completing theseason to the mix.

As you can see from the above, it's a hugely fluid situation. Just these past few days ,the EFL (Leagues One and Two)announced that their preferred position would be to resume the current season at some time in the future, thus aligning themselves with the Premiership and Championship. With the lockdown being extended for a further three weeks and the health of the nation quite rightly at the forefront of everything, the perceived wisdom is that there is no chance of anyfootball taking place before the 1st June and even that is a highly questionable unknown. If you factor in that UEFA may be looking to hold the final of the Champions League on 29 August, then the degree of uncertainty is pronounced. Where does that place us all for the commencement of Season 2020/2021?

Contracts of players at Step 2 (NLN andNLS) largely end on the last day of the season although some players will have 52-week contracts that conclude on 30th June. Whilst FIFA have provided guidance on how contracts may be rolled on for an extended seasons end, respected sports lawyers have advised that under English law no player can be forced to extend his/her contract. We certainly sit in uncharted waters!"

I agree that no player can be forced to extend the contract BUT if the authorities refuse to open up the transfer window and accept new registrations until completion of the season players are left with a choice as to temporarily agree a rolling contract on existing terms until seasons end or not play and not get paid at all.

If they know they're getting a move then they may choose the latter, and fair play to them. There is nothing to stop their new club paying them under a different non-playing role if they wished until they can be registered either.

 

[cc84cov]

I think the xPPG is reasonable, you could even apply it xPPG away and xPPG home if you wanted to.

I agree the more it’s gone on and on now it just makes sense to call it a day