Partick Thistle (16 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The Scottish authorities have been mismanaging the game up there for years and this is just another step in the wrong direction. Rangers challenged the proposal I think but didn’t get enough backing from the other clubs

 

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[Grendel]

You're supposed to be the rabid marketeer. If a business or industry can no longer sustain itself then it should die and be replaced by one that can. And whose to say there aren't transfer fees attached to those clauses? Post Bosman every club should factor in they could lose a player for nothing. If the business model is such that it could so easily fail as I say it needs to be made more robust.

Besides everyone domestically is in the same boat due to reduced TV money so if a player left on a free it'd still be the same situation regarding his wages elsewhere - he wouldn't get what he did before. If a foreign league gets better TV money and they go abroad then that's the market at work. No-one here was complaining when the Spanish and Italians were coming over here to play for the higher wages were they.

Plus we're in a relatively weak position finance wise so it'd be much better for CCFC to see wages and transfer fees come down in the higher divisions.

Are you on a wind up?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Are you on a wind up?

If you really don't get it then maybe you ought to consider whether or not you actually understand capitalism, especially in it's purest form.

 

[Grendel]

If you really don't get it then maybe you ought to consider whether or not you actually understand capitalism, especially in it's purest form.

You are deluded. The Premier league will play a full season next season even if they have to play behind closed doors. They will not under any circumstances surrender their wealth - the arsenal ex chairman once famously said we don’t need fans we need Sky. Down the pyramid the leagues are demanding the season be cancelled. Your plan would put every club out of business other than the big elite who’d tough it out and create a super league of a few clubs

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

You are deluded. The Premier league will play a full season next season even if they have to play behind closed doors. They will not under any circumstances surrender their wealth - the arsenal ex chairman once famously said we don’t need fans we need Sky. Down the pyramid the leagues are demanding the season be cancelled. Your plan would put every club out of business other than the big elite who’d tough it out and create a super league of a few clubs

I'm talking about the power of the TV companies.

I'm talking about Sky etc not putting in the same bids for TV rights they have done. If they don't and no-one else is willing to offer it what are the clubs going to do? Force them to up their bids? Not going to happen. They'd have to accept the market rate and adjust wages/transfers accordingly.

As for a super league of a few clubs - is that not what the PL is on a domestic basis? It's been inevitable for some time that eventually the Champions League will morph into a European league, and in many years to come probably a global one. That is more likely to have individual TV rights deals for each club like Barca/Madrid.

Other option is it would become a 'franchise sport' like the NFL making it effectively a closed shop, but with the option of kicking a team out in favour of another who had better earning potential, like the FTSE.

Plus you say the PL will play a full season next year. How do you know this? How do you know we won't get a second wave needing lockdown and isolation in Oct? Or next Mar? What if a player contracts the virus - that team would have to postpone any games in the next week or so to be certain it hadn't spread through the team. If it did spread to a few teams league would have to be postponed for a period. No certainties whatsoever about next season. In fact there's far more uncertainty over that one than this because this one only has a small part of the season to go - that one's got every single game yet to be played.

 

[Grendel]

I'm talking about the power of the TV companies.

I'm talking about Sky etc not putting in the same bids for TV rights they have done. If they don't and no-one else is willing to offer it what are the clubs going to do? Force them to up their bids? Not going to happen. They'd have to accept the market rate and adjust wages/transfers accordingly.

As for a super league of a few clubs - is that not what the PL is on a domestic basis? It's been inevitable for some time that eventually the Champions League will morph into a European league, and in many years to come probably a global one. That is more likely to have individual TV rights deals for each club like Barca/Madrid.

Other option is it would become a 'franchise sport' like the NFL making it effectively a closed shop, but with the option of kicking a team out in favour of another who had better earning potential, like the FTSE.

Plus you say the PL will play a full season next year. How do you know this? How do you know we won't get a second wave needing lockdown and isolation in Oct? Or next Mar? What if a player contracts the virus - that team would have to postpone any games in the next week or so to be certain it hadn't spread through the team. If it did spread to a few teams league would have to be postponed for a period. No certainties whatsoever about next season. In fact there's far more uncertainty over that one than this because this one only has a small part of the season to go - that one's got every single game yet to be played.

Im talking about the fact that if you put your proposal to the FL it would be laughed at as about as sensible as a David Ike conspiracy theory

It’s not happening in a million years - let it go.

 

[Houchens Head]

For years I thought the team were named after some Irish bloke - Patrick Thistle :emoji_thinking:

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Im talking about the fact that if you put your proposal to the FL it would be laughed at as about as sensible as a David Ike conspiracy theory

It’s not happening in a million years - let it go.

The only proposal I've put forward is we finish this season off, then go from there depending on the timescale decide to either play the 2020/21 season if timing allows or go forward into 2021/22 if we don't. Yep, utter lunacy.

The other options being we either cancel this as if it never happened or call it as finished by some arbitrary measure not set out in the rules to start next season, which has a distinct possibility of facing exactly the same problems as this one. So end up with two 'unfinished seasons' and with it a damaged reputation and product that will affect it's earning potential going forward.

It's not my idea that's not sensible, it's the business model of spending pretty much all your income (or in some cases more) on wages that go out of the game immediately and almost never return. It's a house of cards that will collapse eventually when the TV companies decide they're not offering the big deals anymore as it's not making them money. That will happen - it's just a matter of when. And when it does the players and clubs are going to have to accept lower wages and transfer fees or become insolvent practically immediately.

 

[Grendel]

The only proposal I've put forward is we finish this season off, then go from there depending on the timescale decide to either play the 2020/21 season if timing allows or go forward into 2021/22 if we don't. Yep, utter lunacy.

The other options being we either cancel this as if it never happened or call it as finished by some arbitrary measure not set out in the rules to start next season, which has a distinct possibility of facing exactly the same problems as this one. So end up with two 'unfinished seasons' and with it a damaged reputation and product that will affect it's earning potential going forward.

It's not my idea that's not sensible, it's the business model of spending pretty much all your income (or in some cases more) on wages that go out of the game immediately and almost never return. It's a house of cards that will collapse eventually when the TV companies decide they're not offering the big deals anymore as it's not making them money. That will happen - it's just a matter of when. And when it does the players and clubs are going to have to accept lower wages and transfer fees or become insolvent practically immediately.

You suggested extending the season even into next season which clubs have said would bankrupt them at the lower levels

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

You suggested extending the season even into next season which clubs have said would bankrupt them at the lower levels

Because they assume those paying out wouldn't make a claim for money back due to the season not finishing. They got less than they paid for and would want some money back. They could refuse to pay out for this season's finishing places because it didn't actually finish which would be far more of an immediate cashflow problem for them. It's a legal minefield.

Plus it'd put the broadcasters in a position to offer less lucrative deals next time around due to the uncertainty - citing this as a possible outcome. Also could offer less because the reputation and image of the product has been damaged by having the season not end. So it's just kicking the can down the road for future problems that could be much worse than this (unless transfer fees and wages come down to reflect it but even if they did with multi-year deals they may be left with obligations a new TV deal can't fulfil).

But again if they are that close to bankruptcy so soon the industry/business model isn't robust and according to capitalist thinking it should go to the wall and be replaced by something better equipped to deal with the changed landscape. You don't get to pick and choose when you get sentimental with capitalism G - money talks and if you don't have it you shut up.

 

[thekidfromstrettoncamp]

I think a lot along the lines of S B D I do just wonder when the next bidding comes up where will the opposition to Sky come from? How well will all the possible bidders come out of these times many big company that I would not have expected to be struggling are .It might just be when they(Sky) look around they might find that they are able to put in far smaller bids. If this season does not finish properly the product is tarnished and worth less.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

There remains the obvious answer of starting behind closed doors games

 

[Grendel]

I think a lot along the lines of S B D I do just wonder when the next bidding comes up where will the opposition to Sky come from? How well will all the possible bidders come out of these times many big company that I would not have expected to be struggling are .It might just be when they(Sky) look around they might find that they are able to put in far smaller bids. If this season does not finish properly the product is tarnished and worth less.

Eh? Netflix and other streaming services are already getting involved and have infinitely deep pockets

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Eh? Netflix and other streaming services are already getting involved and have infinitely deep pockets

Not to mention Amazon

 

[thekidfromstrettoncamp]

There remains the obvious answer of starting behind closed doors games

That is how it will start the hope will be that no participant brings the virus that would f--k everything up

 

[Grendel]

Not to mention Amazon

Exactly - it’s now a bidding war and Sky and their dominance are under threat - these people are clueless

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Exactly - it’s now a bidding war and Sky and their dominance are under threat - these people are clueless

Sky haven't been dominant in TV football since BT bought their crown

 

[Grendel]

Sky haven't been dominant in TV football since BT bought their crown

The likes of dreamer must have been asleep for the last few years. It’s embarrassing

 

[SkyBlueSid]

Just as an aside, I saw City play at Partick Thistle many years ago. It was a pre-season friendly, around 1980, part of a tour of Scotland when we also played at (I think) Motherwell and Dumbarton. I remember trying to find Firhill Park by following signs in Glasgow for Partick. It turned out that they actually play some distance away in Maryhill, which we found to be virtually all derelict and flattened. The stadium stuck out, as did a single pub which was apparently run by ex-Scotland keeper Alan Rough. He was certainly ideally named for the area!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Just as an aside, I saw City play at Partick Thistle many years ago. It was a pre-season friendly, around 1980, part of a tour of Scotland when we also played at (I think) Motherwell and Dumbarton. I remember trying to find Firhill Park by following signs in Glasgow for Partick. It turned out that they actually play some distance away in Maryhill, which we found to be virtually all derelict and flattened. The stadium stuck out, as did a single pub which was apparently run by ex-Scotland keeper Alan Rough. He was certainly ideally named for the area!

The ground is still a dump!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The likes of dreamer must have been asleep for the last few years. It’s embarrassing

Clue's in the name G

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Exactly - it’s now a bidding war and Sky and their dominance are under threat - these people are clueless

But it's only a bidding war for as long as people are willing to pay more for the product so they make money. A lot of people now feel saturated with football. If we have a season (or if you had you're way quite possibly two) finished by arbitrary desire more will question how much they really desire to pay for it.

At the moment the PL pull is strong, esp in foreign markets, but that will change over time. Remember when Italian football was THE league to watch for all the talent? Eventually the cost will outweigh the revenue and prices will stagnate and then drop. I can't say when that will be, but it will happen.

Or have you forgotten ITV Digital? That thing that was going to add competition and a bidding war allowing the EFL to become more like the PL. So they paid a huge amount for a TV deal......then they went bust as they'd paid over the odds and loads of clubs (inc us) were massively out of pocket with unaffordable player contracts leaving many close to the wall.

 

[thekidfromstrettoncamp]

Eh? Netflix and other streaming services are already getting involved and have infinitely deep pockets

Unless Netflix have suddenly decided to take an interest in live sport they have always said not interested even if they did I feel sure they would start with sport in their own country.They are to busy taking on the likes of Disney at home.I notice that Amazon did have a spike in subscriptions so far they have not said it was football or other things that introducted at the same time.When we come out of this things will be very different.Who would have said a week ago that oil would drop below zero in America or Mr Branson would be trying to use 1 of his islands to shore up his companies People may not have the money to pay for like subscriptions to these channels.They may not even want to dont forget the drama of this season might turn into a damp squib if I does not finish.

 

[Grendel]

'Netflix of sport' to target Premier League rights after UK launch

 

[thekidfromstrettoncamp]

Grendel thanks read it, but like with everything else that artical was 6 or 7 weeks ago like i said things are changing at an alaming rate . The 2 incidents I quoted would have been unheard of last week let alone 6 weeks ago as Mr Dylan sang 56 years ago "The times they are a changin"

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Grendel thanks read it, but like with everything else that artical was 6 or 7 weeks ago like i said things are changing at an alaming rate . The 2 incidents I quoted would have been unheard of last week let alone 6 weeks ago as Mr Dylan sang 56 years ago "The times they are a changin"

Except that clearly football will return at some point and when it does demand for watching it will be astronomical

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

'Netflix of sport' to target Premier League rights after UK launch

That isn't Netflix. It's using Netflix as an example everyone will have heard of to explain what the intention is.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Except that clearly football will return at some point and when it does demand for watching it will be astronomical

It will most definitely get a boost for the short term as it's been gone a while (like new season boost to numbers) then it will tail off. Like me - I'm really starting to wish I could go to the chippy but if it reopened and I had it everyday for a week I'd soon become tired of it and not want any for months.

I think streaming will be the way forward as bigger clubs get their bigger share as more people stream their games than others but there is only a finite amount of people who are willing to watch and how much they're willing to pay. But with this competition is the increased risk of one of the competitors defaulting and overstretching themselves. That would be far more disastrous than reduced bids.

 

[Grendel]

That isn't Netflix. It's using Netflix as an example everyone will have heard of to explain what the intention is.

It’s a steaming service that want a slice of the pie. If anything this crises will grow the money demanded by the PL not reduce it

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

It’s a steaming service that want a slice of the pie. If anything this crises will grow the money demanded by the PL not reduce it

It's impossible to tell the effect on viewing figures right now.

I agree that after this there will likely be a massive demand after this over. However I also believe that it might be higher if it were finishing off the old season rather than starting a new one (although may depend on club and position). Having had no football for ages the demand will be there like new season syndrome, but with many clubs having so much to fight for in a short space or time there is that added interest of what will happen over that short period. It's been left on a cliffhanger and tempting you to watch the next one.

You then have the close season and have the second rush of new season syndrome.

After that it'll likely flatten out to similar levels as before and over time with likely every game available for streaming at some point you run the risk of over-saturation and interest waning a bit. If you gave me dinner at a Michelin-starred restaurant everyday I'd eventually get bored and want something a bit different.

With the new ways of watching like streaming there are new income streams, but these are largely replacing the existing ones rather than adding many new fans, certainly domestically. So where you might see large growth in streaming revenues from companies like Netflix, the traditional TV packages of Sky/BT will go down in price as there is less demand for them.

Plus with the streaming there may be a lot of competition as they want a slice of the pie, but again I cite ITV Digitial, who also wanted a slice of the pie and got burnt as the overvalued it. Real chance that may happen again with companies getting involved who don't have experience in the sector.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It will most definitely get a boost for the short term as it's been gone a while (like new season boost to numbers) then it will tail off. Like me - I'm really starting to wish I could go to the chippy but if it reopened and I had it everyday for a week I'd soon become tired of it and not want any for months.

I think streaming will be the way forward as bigger clubs get their bigger share as more people stream their games than others but there is only a finite amount of people who are willing to watch and how much they're willing to pay. But with this competition is the increased risk of one of the competitors defaulting and overstretching themselves. That would be far more disastrous than reduced bids.

You can still get that delivered but there is no live football. There may be an impact from people’s personal finances being worse but not enough to kill the service

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It’s a steaming service that want a slice of the pie. If anything this crises will grow the money demanded by the PL not reduce it

You want steamed pie Dreamer wants burnt pie what happened to normality?

 

[Skybluefaz]

For years I thought the team were named after some Irish bloke - Patrick Thistle :emoji_thinking:

Your thinking of Keith

 

[Houchens Head]

Your thinking of Keith

Nope. Don't get it. :emoji_worried:

 

[Skybluefaz]

Nope. Don't get it. :emoji_worried:

I'll get my coat