Telegraph Investigation into ARVO (3 Viewers)

[thegameaintstraight]

Nothing with Sisu is straight. We are used to dealing with people who control the Club who are not straight but it used to be just dishonest, lying thieves and shites that you could understand, now it is "legal" but it doesn't change their nature, just which side of the line between being potentially criminal and not.

My sentiments exactly.

Question for the experts on here, not unrelated to the above.
How can SISU, or whichever bit of them it may be, gain anything to help CCFC by owning 50% of ACL shares? If I have read OSB right ACL will not be paying dividends any time soon, and all they own is a lease, no freehold.

 

---

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The main benefit is access to matchday revenues beyond programme and ticket sales-so food and drink, car parks etc. The rent is not affected by this stake holding and has to be negotiated separately.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

All very amusing in a weird way

Kinda glad it is all out there, unfortunately says a lot about the telegraph the way it has happened.

If they have already been working on it for a long time could somebody inform me what exactly evidence wise they have unearthed other than what OSB has already said? No didnt think so.

OSB how long did it take you to find out the same info? CET have been working on it for a long-time so they are very incompetent or someone is telling porkies. My guess OSB is lying he works for the CET and put the story on here early under the pseudonym OSB for a cheap bit of glory. Always knew you were a fake

Gut instinct tells me Andy Turner read it thought bloody hell this is way over my head and to be fair to him he pretty much admitted this as he tried to recruit BSB's help. Then he asked TF got fobbed off released TF story everybody is happy. He is a sports journo its not his thing..

Then they realised we were not going way. That Reid bloke asked an expert he said word for word what OSB said then they did a 2 page spread. Then are hostile to anyone exposing them as frauds.

However, its out there it is on a 2 page spread. We now have the council getting backing from some of the fans for their stance. We may get the backing of Higgs/ ACL (whoever) and finally the Telegraph have had the guts to do a bad story on SISU.

It shows to me the the fans can make a difference. The Telegraph are starting to realise what we actually think and are starting to realise we are their customer not SISU.

Pretty much bang on the money there dongonzalos-as I've said before, this saga coupled with PKWH's Higgs statement on here has proven that the Telegraph need proactive supporters to keep it in the wire because SISU will simply dripfeed more half truths. There are some really good posters on here who combined have provided more clarity and digging on the situation than the CT journalists sat drinking coffee at their desks.

 

[oldskyblue58]

well dongonzalos i would guess including using my credit card to get a copy of the charge document less than 5 minutes....... as for being a secret CT journalist :thinking about: nope not me.

I dont look for glory, no sense of ego in what i do .......... I do it because I understand a lot of it and can see a way through some of the deliberately complicated arrangements at the club we support ..... if I can help others understand and that makes the "us" as fans stronger and better informed then that's great and important to me. Bottom line it is only my opinion but it is as far as the finances go at least based on professional knowledge.

I want our fans to make a difference and as they say knowledge is strength.

The important thing is that we continue to question and get the facts out to the fans


btw it took longer to write this post than to get the info on the charge to ARVO

 

[dongonzalos]

well dongonzalos i would guess including using my credit card to get a copy of the charge document less than 5 minutes....... as for being a secret CT journalist :thinking about: nope not me.

I dont look for glory, no sense of ego in what i do .......... I do it because I understand a lot of it and can see a way through some of the deliberately complicated arrangements at the club we support ..... if I can help others understand and that makes the "us" as fans stronger and better informed then that's great and important to me. Bottom line it is only my opinion but it is as far as the finances go at least based on professional knowledge.

I want our fans to make a difference and as they say knowledge is strength.

The important thing is that we continue to question and get the facts out to the fans

I hope you do know the 'journo' bit was the height of sarcasm

 

[oldskyblue58]

I hope you do know the 'journo' bit was the height of sarcasm

didnt take it any other way dongonzalos

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I tweeted the Telegraph's editor about Turner admitting they knew nothing about ARVO till last week. His response? 'I see you're a referee-that says everything.' Truth too much to handle for the journalists?

 

[dongonzalos]

i tweeted the telegraph's editor about turner admitting they knew nothing about arvo till last week. His response? 'i see you're a referee-that says everything.' truth too much to handle for the journalists?

omg!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I know-a referee has more credibility than the editor of our local newspaper!

 

[sky blue john]

Some conclusions that I am making please tell me if I am wrong and way off the mark.

Firstly if we are still losing 500k + a month then it doesn't matter about half the revenue for the stadium its never going to plug that gap so obviously more lies.

Secondly if Avro are putting up this money each month then why not pay the rent ?

thirdly with what Fisher said it looks like all they are doing is spreading the debt across five funds now instead of four. All I can see is that they are just shuffling the debt.

My final conclusion is whatever they are trying to do are not standard business practices. They are never going to be open and transparrent so if Mutton is true to his word the Ricoh deal will be off.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The purpose of withholding rent is to be used as a bargaining weapon in the ACL talks-the issue is not so much 'We can't pay it', rather 'We don't want to pay it'.

 

[oldskyblue58]

i dont think most of that is that far wide of the mark SBJ........... but it is guesswork really for all of us because they dont actually tell us many facts....... so your conclusions are as good as anyones

 

[dongonzalos]

Some conclusions that I am making please tell me if I am wrong and way off the mark.

Firstly if we are still losing 500k + a month then it doesn't matter about half the revenue for the stadium its never going to plug that gap so obviously more lies.

The council keep making that point so I don't think this is guesswork, it is fact otherwise the councils press department would not ok the story.

Secondly if Avro are putting up this money each month then why not pay the rent ?

I agree 100 % it is a hammer to bash the council and drag them to the table. Also to make ACL think 'we should get out now with it all as a profit' if we stay in this in the future it could get very messy with expensive legal battles and prove very costly.

thirdly with what Fisher said it looks like all they are doing is spreading the debt across five funds now instead of four. All I can see is that they are just shuffling the debt.

My final conclusion is whatever they are trying to do are not standard business practices. They are never going to be open and transparent so if Mutton is true to his word the Ricoh deal will be off.

Or the council can somehow come up with a document commiting SISU to a certain amount of funding every year for the next 5 years into the football club (however this sounds like a hard thing to do, this should be accountable against SISU's other companies. They should be blocked from mortgaging the share and the council should keep power of veto for any future sales.

That way hopefully they get the share put the whole lot up for sale straight away and the council get to agree on whether any knew bidders are suitable or not.

 

[Godiva]

Taking over the shares from the trust isn't alone enough to secure financial profit to start paying back the loans.
But it's a step in the right direction as it will see sisu and the city council partner up on developing the surrounding area. That is where the major future profit is.

I hope the council is sensible enough to make sure profits from that adventure will benefit the club. Either directly by having the club holding company be the venture partner (funded by sisu and preferbly by new equity capital), or at the very least by making sisu convert loans to equity as they cash in on the venture.
It may be complicated, but if I can think it a lawyer can write it.
In any case - any part of the stadium purchased by sisu, should be tied firmly to the club.

 

[dongonzalos]

I know-a referee has more credibility than the editor of our local newspaper!

Just twiiter him this link and copy in as many of the CET staff as you can find and the fans who no doubt will have tweeted them congratulating them on such an awesome story

Best thing to come out of CET for a long time just a bit unsure of the real source http://www.skybluestalk.co.uk/threads/16713-This-deserves-its-own-thread-Old-Sky-Blue

 

[Bennets Afro]

If SISU got the 50% stake in ACL, would they be able to get what money they are looking for to disappear from the Chinese lot (if they are still around)???
Is it all about having something to sell to recoup their losses???

 

[kingharvest]

Some conclusions that I am making please tell me if I am wrong and way off the mark.

Firstly if we are still losing 500k + a month then it doesn't matter about half the revenue for the stadium its never going to plug that gap so obviously more lies.

Secondly if Avro are putting up this money each month then why not pay the rent ?

thirdly with what Fisher said it looks like all they are doing is spreading the debt across five funds now instead of four. All I can see is that they are just shuffling the debt.

My final conclusion is whatever they are trying to do are not standard business practices. They are never going to be open and transparrent so if Mutton is true to his word the Ricoh deal will be off.

I think the point of not paying the rent was because the had made attempts to reduce it in light of a relegation and ACL have basically been saying No. ACL don't think they need the club - which is incredibly arrogant. So Fisher/SISU decided to call their bluff and say, ok, we won't pay the rent and hopefully that'll kick start some discussions. Which it has.

Plus don't forget, we were all pretty outraged when we discovered that the rent was £1.2m a year.

It was only when we refused to pay it that all the parties seemed to get together.

 

[kingharvest]

If SISU got the 50% stake in ACL, would they be able to get what money they are looking for to disappear from the Chinese lot (if they are still around)???
Is it all about having something to sell to recoup their losses???

Yeah partly. They need an asset in order to either attract co-investment, or to sell. If you think about it, £10m or whatever it is now, for the Higgs trust, at Higgs trust rate, is then worth market value once they've bought it. No-one will ever be able to buy half the ground as cheap as they can from Higgs, and no-one can buy the half from Higgs without owning the club. So SISU need that to protect their investment and attempt to make some of their money back. Personally i think they've probably written off some of their investment. I can't see them getting £40m or whatever it is. But if they can get £20m or so they'll probably be satisfied.

 

[singers_pore]

@CovTelEd @CovTel_CCFC @Lesreidpolitics haha-I and many many others beg to differ. It's a fool who feels they can learn nothing from others

From: @CovTelEd: No. It's a fool who sits in a plane and tries to tell the pilot how to fly it.

and with that, he proved my point and i wished him well. The arrogance is almost as glaring as the ignorance. No wonder we all think they're shite.

The CT reporters are a bunch of cocks. Last year I posted the accounts on SBT and there was a thread discussing the financial issues. The CT took my copy and didn't mention at all where they came from or that the issues were discussed on SBT. When I emailed them about it they did not deny it, but said it was normal journalism. Lazy coonts.

 

[WillieStanley]

Did you see what he was saying to BSB last night? The guy's an arse!!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Did you see what he was saying to BSB last night? The guy's an arse!!

He can't 'hack' the truth (geddit?). Confronted with being exposed as a pure liar he insults and patronises whoever's on his radar-the Telegraph's journalistic standards are therefore unsurprising.

 

[dongonzalos]

Name on the article is Les Reid not Turner though BSB - would seem the SISU set of values are rubbing off on the CT reporters or was it always the case ?

Please could you post this in the main area Nick