Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Same goes for Rubin
George Floyd (41 Viewers)
- Thread starter Sky Blue Pete
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Same goes for Rubin
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I guess the statues going in museums would suit that purpose so people can still learn about these figures and how views changed. If they are all hidden away then I think it is denying the past to an extent.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Because it’s not the 70’s anymore.
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David O'Day
Well-Known Member
yes statues should be put in museums so we can educate people on their wrongs but as seen with Edward Colston statue a powerful minority do seem to object to this and want to keep the statues in place
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
He was in agreement with Ben Shapiro when he said he’d be uncomfortable inviting Rubin and his husband to a party
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Why not if it’s no skin off our nose?
Why does it matter if, with John Cleese agreement, we used the edited version of Fawlty Towers without the words nigger and wog on it?
Why does it matter if after years of peaceful protest about a statue people of the city decide enough is enough and remove it themselves?
I’ll ignore the irony of pushing a fringe view about immigration constantly then whining about listening to fringe views.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
His is a clear case but examples like Francis Drake are harder to decide on.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
The problem is she’s completely missed the point. The issue is far bigger than this one event. There’s been a couple of high profile cases aside from this incident very recently. There was the two rednecks that killed a black jogger and would have gotten away with it as the police couldn’t be arsed with it until the video went viral a month later, then there was that vile woman who weaponised racism in the police when a black man who was bird watching very politely asked her to put her dog on its lead as per the park’s rules. If this woman thinks it’s about turning George Floyd into a martyr then she is unbelievably ignorant and her opinion should be dismissed on that basis.
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Grendel
Well-Known Member
You seem to have missed off Sir Starmer and Mr Campbell
skyblueinBaku
Well-Known Member
Thanks for that.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
There should be museums on slavery in the ports, towns are cities where the trade was mostly conducted full of statues, road signs etc of the people that conducted the trade, it should be a complete history on the slave trade, who sold them in Africa, who brought them in Africa, where they were transported, what that journey consisted off, how they were treated, how they were abused, what industries used them etc etc. No sugar coating, educate people.
The coventrian
Well-Known Member
And what about people who dont want them removed? Do they not count? I'll wager the majority of people dont want stuff messed about with. And why now? Can we remove Mandela then? If enough people find him offensive then we'll get shot of that then yes?
The coventrian
Well-Known Member
Mobs pulling down statues isnt the way to go. You cant go taking it upon yourselves to tear property down. I'd never heard of colston before this. Ironically I've drunk in the pitcher and piano near by before going to Ashton gate and never even noticed it.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
to be fair it sounds like quite a lot of locals in Bristol wanted the Colston statue removed but their views had been ignored. .
Perhaps canvassing local opinion would be the best way to deal with all of the contentious statues otherwise it's going to end up getting sillier than it is now.
Looks like the locals in Poole want to keep the Baden Powell one so let them keep it. If the allegations against him are true, (and there's evidence to the contrary that there not but I haven't looked into it a great deal), then that's down to them if they want to be seen as supporting such ideas. The rest of us can choose to not visit and spend our money their if we're not on board with their decision.
As someone said, the Colston one is a bit more straight forward but some of them aren't. It's going to start getting really silly.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I think most people wanted to change the wording on it
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
I think it’s right that certain sitcoms are dropped at least while the adult conversation is happening. We need to acknowledge that lots of them if not most haven’t aged well due to the language and insinuations in them. 2 of my favourite sitcoms historically are rising damp and porridge, last time I watched rising damp I cringed more than I laughed it’s so blatant, porridge isn’t so bad but it’s still in there from time to time. I think once we’ve had the adult conversation it’s only right that many of these sitcoms return with a warning that the subject matter and language although deemed acceptable in its time is rightly no longer acceptable. The danger is that we write them out of history and then lessons aren’t learned, we need to think of them as social commentary of that period as much as anything and accept that we’ve rightly moved on. But you need to have the adult conversation first, as long as the argument is lefty antifa types are ruining for everyone then you lack the maturity to learn the lessons and it’s right they stay off air. The world needs wholesale change on attitudes to race but many other things also including sexism, religions bigotry, nationalism etc.
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Ring Of Steel
Well-Known Member
Should have happened a long time ago, George Floyd has turned out to be the catalyst for a bit of self examination, which is good. Nothing has changed apart from a wider awareness, which again is very good. For example- I would estimate that 90% on here would have had no clue who Colston was, now they do, a historic wrong has been righted and people are realising that we should probably correct a few things. We can argue about the means with the Colston statue but it only happened that way because some people wanted to hold him up as a hero and refused to accept that murdering thousands of kids while transporting them to be slaves is a bad thing. Awareness of history & then being able to deal with it is a great thing, and thats whats changing at the moment. There is also a generational effect, look at the ages of the people who want to finally address what we did & compare it to those who think its "PC gone mad", things are shifting in terms of how we view the past & hopefully there's a lot to be hopeful of in the future.
The statues shouldn't just be smashed up or destroyed, they are a part of our history & should be treated as such, I'd argue against anyone who said they shouldn't be preserved in the right place, you can acknowledge the past and move on. I don't get why people are so anxious to cling to these former 'glories' when there is so much for the country to shout about in so many fields. We'll have statues of slave traders & protect them as if thats something we should be proud of, but do what we did with Turing until a few years ago, our views of our history are pretty mixed up.
The sad thing is that I can see one of two things happening now- either nothing will really change, its a flash in the pan and we go back to how we were, or people will find a reason to find offence in everything & that detracts from the argument, makes them look nonsensical & again, we go back to how we were. Then we just have to wait until today's kids get older and hopefully do it properly.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
What’s your argument for removing images of Nelson Mandella?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
That would be a wager you would lose:
Why not? You may have noticed a world wide anti racism protest happening now.
If you can point me to a long running campaign to remove Mandelas statue sure. Not sure one exists though.
Ring Of Steel
Well-Known Member
We all know what he means, however I would have thought that when you actually understand that he was trying to fight against Apartheid it all becomes a bit clearer. Same as the Gerry Adams thing, he did what he did because his country was invaded & occupied. I'm not getting into debates about those individuals but its not as if either of them woke up one day and decided to become 'terrorists' for shits & giggles. I would argue that the difference between Colston & those two is really straightforward, Colston wasn't fighting for a cause or trying to right a wrong, he merely wanted to generate profit by buying & selling human beings as slaves.
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
He's just Gammon
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
To be honest the one statue it’s amazed me that nobody’s fussed over is that of Cromwell outside Parliament. Committed horrible acts in Ireland and not historically popular.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
If that’s his angle then he’s missing a huge slice of Mandela’s legacy. I remember the library photo they used to show on the news of Mandela while he was incarcerated, presumably it was his mug shot from when he was arrested before being sent to jail. I know what he did prior to that but the man that was released from jail was nothing like that mugshot in any respect. He was an old man from starters but in reality that was the point that his legacy began. His legacy is of a decent man capable of forgiveness to such a degree that it’s truly inspirational. If Mandela had have came out of prison picked up a gun, started making bombs, committing acts of terror etc then fair enough. But that isn’t Mandela’s legacy.
The same can’t be said of these slave traders, there was no u turn, no remorse, no trying to put it right, there legacy is slave trading and that shouldn’t be celebrated or honoured in any way.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
Some of the views on this are just bonkers, and if anything just reiterates how real racism is.
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Ring Of Steel
Well-Known Member
I've been avoiding saying that as you just get told that you're the one with a problem going around calling everyone racists, but the simple fact is that it is still there, alive & well in very large numbers of people.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
The fact we popped one up for Nancy Astor not so long ago was... curious in the extreme.
Cromwell is one that becomes historically interesting to weigh up.
OffenhamSkyBlue
Well-Known Member
I suspect Nancy Astor being a woman trumped her being a Nazi sympathiser!
Alan Dugdales Moustache
Well-Known Member
Says the man who'd have a statue of Gerry Adams in every market Square in Ulster.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Fucking hell
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
As a comparison to Farage, O'Brien is centre-left
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Not sure about this as it further encourages echo chambers and bubbles. OK people who listen to O'Brien probably don't listen to Farage/Ferrari anyway but the issue we have with many papers/media is too much bias.
Not that I think Farage deserves a platform for many of his views which aren't based on reality but it wouldn't be amiss to replace him with another right leaning presenter, just one less extremist.