George Floyd (5 Viewers)

[Ian1779]

Not sure about this as it further encourages echo chambers and bubbles. OK people who listen to O'Brien probably don't listen to Farage/Ferrari anyway but the issue we have with many papers/media is too much bias.

Not that I think Farage deserves a platform for many of his views which aren't based on reality but it wouldn't be amiss to replace him with another right leaning presenter, just one less extremist.

We could of course get some BAME presenters on LBC rather than just the single one there is now...

 

---

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Also of course Churchill - I see also some statue of Queen Victoria has been defaced

I’ve now heard someone suggest Ghandi should be banned as Ben Kingsley wasn’t always that brown and tanned for the job. Some very poor research there and now there is someone on the radio saying we should change the rules for qualification on swimming times so a black person can represent the uk at swimming

This is not a good road to go down

Actually Gandhi was racist. Brought up in the caste system and believed people with darker skin were inferior. Churchill was a great leader but was a racist and a sexist.

As for the swimming thing if true they're stupid.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Not sure about this as it further encourages echo chambers and bubbles. OK people who listen to O'Brien probably don't listen to Farage/Ferrari anyway but the issue we have with many papers/media is too much bias.

Not that I think Farage deserves a platform for many of his views which aren't based on reality but it wouldn't be amiss to replace him with another right leaning presenter, just one less extremist.

He showed up on TalkRadio today didn't he?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

‘How do you manage to stay here‘ was the phrase. It’s a clear inference.

Although I'm often in agreement with you it's not necessarily the case. Have you never had a conversation with someone who's fed up with the direction the country is going in and just asked 'why don't you leave?" Not in a bigoted or racist way but genuinely why don't you choose to emigrate somewhere better? I've got French/Canadian neighbours and often ask myself why do they stay rather than go home? This surely can't be better can it?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Actually Gandhi was racist. Brought up in the caste system and believed people with darker skin were inferior. Churchill was a great leader but was a racist and a sexist.

As for the swimming thing if true they're stupid.

And of course, a raging imperialist.

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

Much of Bristol's wealth, as the biggest port in Britain for long periods of the 17th and 18th centuries, was founded not only on the export and import of goods, but also the slave trade (those taken from Africa to the Caribbean to grow the sugar, bananas, cotton, etc).
It wasn't just the PEOPLE who got wealthy from the slave trade, but the ENTIRE CITY.

How should THAT be addressed?
(For the record, I'm Bristolian by birth, so i wouldn't want the whole city to be bulldozed into the harbour)

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Its absolutely pathetic isnt it. This is nothing about George floyd anymore. It's been hijacked now by the far left/antifa types to force their opinions on everyone else. They're not interested in racial equality,they just wanna cause mayhem and stick 2 fingers up at the establishment. They hate this country and its past. Pulling down statues around the uk? All u see is wankers like the vile privileged owen jones and the likes of racist sadiq Khan demanding removal of certain things as they dont like them. Who the fuck are these arseholes to demand this? How many black people were there at the removal of that statue at Bristol? Hardly any. It was your privately educated leftie wankers mainly. Look at those 3 that rolled it down the street. They werent blm,more like the great unwashed. This is very dangerous territory imo. Thankfully churchill has been boarded up which in this day and and age is a fucking disgrace. If certain people keep up with this by peddling there shit then we'll end up having quite a bit of trouble on the streets as the general public will only put up with so much. What started out as a legitimate cause imo has now totally lost its direction which is a shame.

When you say those three pushing the statue down the round weren't blm are you sure you don't just mean 'black'. You know it is possible to support and sympathise with a cause even if it doesn't directly apply to you.

But given you're a rampant Thatcherite which is all greed and me-me-me maybe not.

Plus if you want to find a statue of someone who despised England look no further than right outside Parliament. He's called Richard I and often cited by the right as one of our greatest kings.

 

[Grendel]

Actually Gandhi was racist. Brought up in the caste system and believed people with darker skin were inferior. Churchill was a great leader but was a racist and a sexist.

As for the swimming thing if true they're stupid.

As ROS is in hiding isn’t De Valera a nazi sympathiser and Holocaust denier? No statues pulled yet have they in the oh so liberal Emerald Isle?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

There's a fair bit to be proud of in Britain's history, however there is also a fair bit to be deeply ashamed of. Removing the bad bits & keeping the good- not too sure what the problem is really.

I assume you mean remove them from public view rather than remove them completely.

We need to keep the memories of our mistakes alive just as much so we don't make the same mistakes again.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

I assume you mean remove them from public view rather than remove them completely.

We need to keep the memories of our mistakes alive just as much so we don't make the same mistakes again.

Thats exactly what I mean.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

There's never been any refusal to acknowledge anything. The info is all there if you want it - unlike a lot of countries I could mention.

The point is history is history - it should not be obliterated. You can't expect people who lived years ago to live by standards you now consider normal - they all did what they thought was right/best at the time. Slavery was a big thing right through history until 160 or so years ago, and still goes on now under various guises around the world - but, silence from BLM et al. because it would entail thought and effort.

Knocking down statues will change absolutely nothing for the people that were involved. Which version of history would you prefer?

I agree about not obliterating history - the bad bits help you make better decisions in the future.

But the problem is the history, as you put it, "is all there if you want it". Trouble is lots of people don't want it. They'll ignore it and just focus on the positive aspects and that leads to situations that breed supremacists and xenophobes/racists. I'm not saying Britain is alone in this. America massivly skews it's teaching of American history and China basically makes it up.

It shouldn't be "there if you want it", it should be "there if you want it or not"

 

[skybluetony176]

As ROS is in hiding isn’t De Valera a nazi sympathiser and Holocaust denier? No statues pulled yet have they in the oh so liberal Emerald Isle?

He’s actually not well liked in many if not most parts of Ireland, especially in younger less gammon headed generations. It may well happen yet and for more reasons than you list. But you’d have to know your Irish history past straw man argument, whataboutery, fishing for likes from your racist fan boys to understand that.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

He’s actually not well liked in many if not most parts of Ireland, especially in younger less gammon headed generations. It may well happen yet and for more reasons than you list. But you’d have to know your Irish history past straw man argument, whataboutery, fishing for likes from your racist fan boys to understand that.

Yep, I couldn't be bothered getting into it as you know where it ends up.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Because there isn't a country on earth with such a troubled relationship with its past as us.

Disagree. America massively airbrushes it's past. China completes hides theirs. I imagine a lot of less well known countries do the same.

If we do have a troubled relationship with our past it's because we do try, in some way, to recognise that not all of it is pleasant.

Other countries don't have a troubled relationship with their past because they don't acknowledge those flaws.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Disagree. America massively airbrushes it's past. China completes hides theirs. I imagine a lot of less well known countries do the same.

If we do have a troubled relationship with our past it's because we do try, in some way, to recognise that not all of it is pleasant.

Other countries don't have a troubled relationship with their past because they don't acknowledge those flaws.

I can see where you're coming from. I'd say Germany have done a decent job in acknowledging their past though.

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

If you watched the recent series of Great Asian Railway Journeys with Michael Portillo, you'll know how fucking shady the Dutch and French were in their colonial past (in France's case in Vietnam, quite recent past where they were still guillotining the native population who dared to stand up for themselves).
We may have been colonial, but (a) we weren't the only ones by a long chalk, and (b) we DID bring a lot of continuing wealth and prosperity to the countries we ruled.

 

[Grendel]

Yep, I couldn't be bothered getting into it as you know where it ends up.

Yes with you dripping in hypocrisy - odd how you ignore racists adored in a country that oddly is very racist -still your moral compass is always rather skewed isn’t it

 

[skybluetony176]

Yep, I couldn't be bothered getting into it as you know where it ends up.

It’s almost as if Ireland didn’t have a hung parliament in the last general election which was in itself a reflection of disdain not just for Eamonn de Valera but his legacy.

 

[Grendel]

It’s almost as if Ireland didn’t have a hung parliament in the last general election which was in itself a reflection of disdain not just for Eamonn de Valera but his legacy.

Are his statues being pulled down?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

If you watched the recent series of Great Asian Railway Journeys with Michael Portillo, you'll know how fucking shady the Dutch and French were in their colonial past (in France's case in Vietnam, quite recent past where they were still guillotining the native population who dared to stand up for themselves).
We may have been colonial, but (a) we weren't the only ones by a long chalk, and (b) we DID bring a lot of continuing wealth and prosperity to the countries we ruled.

No doubt about other countries, but I'd say thats not quite the same issue as having statues celebrating slave traders who murdered thousands of children many years after the event.

 

[Nick]

13 year old lad kicked police in the head because he was scared of the incident in America.

Again, people need to face up to their actions.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

13 year old lad kicked police in the head because he was scared of the incident in America.

Again, people need to face up to their actions.

where has this happened?

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

No doubt about other countries, but I'd say thats not quite the same issue as having statues celebrating slave traders who murdered thousands of children many years after the event.

I don't know all the statues in France and Holland, RoS

 

[skybluetony176]

Are his statues being pulled down?

Did you actually read what I posted in my initial reply to you?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

I don't know all the statues in France and Holland, RoS

If you're excusing us having these statues up based on what other countries are up to, then I would disagree that that absolves us from the requirement to do the right thing. However I'm not looking to row or anything, just my view.

 

[SIR ERNIE]

That would be a wager you would lose:

View attachment 15403

.

How many Bristolians participated in that survey?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

How many Bristolians participated in that survey?

Bristol has spoken - most people are glad the Colston statue was pulled down

 

[Grendel]

No doubt about other countries, but I'd say thats not quite the same issue as having statues celebrating slave traders who murdered thousands of children many years after the event.

Or countries that revelled in Nazi ideology and said the holocaust was a distraction. How many statues are there of him? Are they coming down? How do would you justify your comments regarding Gerry Adams to the parents of children blown up in a McDonalds in Warrington? Piece of work you are aren't you?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

We all know what he means, however I would have thought that when you actually understand that he was trying to fight against Apartheid it all becomes a bit clearer. Same as the Gerry Adams thing, he did what he did because his country was invaded & occupied. I'm not getting into debates about those individuals but its not as if either of them woke up one day and decided to become 'terrorists' for shits & giggles. I would argue that the difference between Colston & those two is really straightforward, Colston wasn't fighting for a cause or trying to right a wrong, he merely wanted to generate profit by buying & selling human beings as slaves.

But the thing with Colston is was at the time such an attitude wasn't just acceptable it was pretty much expected.

In hundreds of years time the entrepreneurs of todays may well be looked upon as despicable because they paid their workers far less than was fair and there was huge inequality. In the current climate they're seen by many as sensible and prudent business people.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

But the thing with Colston is was at the time such an attitude wasn't just acceptable it was pretty much expected.

In hundreds of years time the entrepreneurs of todays may well be looked upon as despicable because they paid their workers far less than was fair and there was huge inequality. In the current climate they're seen by many as sensible and prudent business people.

Yes agreed, however that doesn't explain why we would have a statue of Colston celebrating him in 2020.

 

[Grendel]

Bristol has spoken - most people are glad the Colston statue was pulled down

That has as much credibility as a Sisu Out survey with out Trinity Mirror Group version - it has no validity

 

[SIR ERNIE]

Bristol has spoken - most people are glad the Colston statue was pulled down

seriously? based on just 10k responses?

Bristol has a population pushing 700k.

 

[Nick]

where has this happened?

Hackney. 3 people charged for assaulting police.

 

[Grendel]

How many Bristolians participated in that survey?

Poor old ROS - ask him awkward questions he never ever answers. He likes adulation and never a discussion. Mr trench is spot on in his analysis of this curious poster

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

To be honest the one statue it’s amazed me that nobody’s fussed over is that of Cromwell outside Parliament. Committed horrible acts in Ireland and not historically popular.

IMO it should be removed but can see why it remains as he was the catalyst leading to modern parliament (even if his actions were effectively King in all but name) and without it we may have remained under an absolutist monarchy for much longer.

He was, in modern terms, a religious extremist and zealot who's actions if attributed to say Al Qaeda would be that of a terrorist.

He wasn't even the brains behind much of the Parliamentarian success - he became the 'poster' boy/ PR representative based on his own ambition rather than altruism. A Civil War Boris.