George Floyd (5 Viewers)

[hill83]

I don’t have any answer by the way and while I do personally agree with the BLM movement and have been involved, currently things do appear to be worse. But it’s generating discussion and more and more people are learning and when it hopefully dies down and the anger dissipates I like to think we’ll be in a better place to move forward.

 

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[Wyken Sky Blue]

If anyone is offended by Winston Churchill, I'll happy take all their £5 notes off them!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I think that is the nature of social media in general and arguably the same as this forum. I would imagine that 99% of those who engage on the political types threads would have a much more civilised and balanced debates in real life, and would get on well while doing so.

When you talk face to face there’s much less scope for misunderstanding and also the veil of anonymity has been removed. That said some here do seem to thrive on antagonism.

 

[mrtrench]

If you read this, then it all sounds reasonable:

What We Believe - Black Lives Matter

But these are aims and objectives. This is not a manifesto.

This is what one of the founders wrote in 2017, which is closer to a manifesto:

White people, here are 10 requests from a Black Lives Matter leader - LEO Weekly

And this is clearly part of a manifesto:

#DefundThePolice - Black Lives Matter

I'm fine with the first but think the second two are just mad and will not help one iota.

 

[Grendel]

When you talk face to face there’s much less scope for misunderstanding and also the veil of anonymity has been removed. That said some here do seem to thrive on antagonism.

You being an example of someone who retorts to antagonism and then gets personally offended when it comes back

 

[hill83]

If you read this, then it all sounds reasonable:

What We Believe - Black Lives Matter

But these are aims and objectives. This is not a manifesto.

This is what one of the founders wrote in 2017, which is closer to a manifesto:

White people, here are 10 requests from a Black Lives Matter leader - LEO Weekly

And this is clearly part of a manifesto:

#DefundThePolice - Black Lives Matter

I'm fine with the first but think the second two are just mad and will not help one iota.

Yeah some of it is nonsense. Like anything there will be outliers.

 

[hill83]

Was that a civil discussion then? Let me log out and back in to double check.

 

[clint van damme]

And some more opinions which are even more controversial:

- All this outrage from the rioters is contrived. They are joining a bandwagon and seizing an excuse to do what they wanted to do anyway.
- There is not even any evidence that the murder of George Floyd was racially motivated. It's not even clear statistically that Police murders in the States are biased towards PoC.
- BLM is a shill organisation for Marxism.
- Left Wing rioters are absolutely equivalent to Right Wing rioters. The only difference between them is the way that the press and certain trendy commentators are reporting on them.
- Left Wing rioting actually makes racism worse. It triggers a violent and opposite reaction from some people outraged by their actions. The way to make change to a society is slowly with discussion and empathy. I saw racism in the 70s and I see very little today. I'm not saying there is none, just that I don't see it within the people I know socially or at work - and many of the things that are claimed to be racist are juvenile misrepresentations of events and opinions.
- Erasing statues and TV programmes doesn't help anything - if anything it again promotes division.
- Identity politics is like apartheid: putting ethnicity into boxes works against harmony and the world in which people are judged by character rather than skin colour.

I guarantee that someone (Tony?) will claim that some of things I write here are ignorant and racist. So be it, I know my character and you do not.

The FBI have been warning for ages that white supremacists have being infiltrating the police and there's a wealth of evidence that the police are racist. I linked a Washington.post article somewhere on this forum with some horrendous statistics in it.
Also anecdotal evidence I know but I've asked several times on here and no one has answered, why did police in the States allow armed white anti lock down protestors to enter government buildings, why use kid gloves when arresting white mass shooters?

Look at the central park incident where the woman threatened to call the police on the bird spottet and say he thrratened her when the footage showed he didnt.
Look at the one that has come to light this week with the black guy who was putting a black lives matter sign in his garden where white women threatened to call the police and say it wasn't his house.
The insinuation is clear, You're a black man and contact with the police could potentially be dangerous for.

I agree about the level of racism today compared to the 70s but we're talking about the UK. The States is different.

 

[Ian1779]

Its all action and reaction. What happened yesterday was inevitable since the minute the Churchill statue was allowed to be defaced. If a certain minority of protesters last weekend had left it alone then perhaps what transpired yesterday wouldn't have been as reactive.
I think the police nationally are going to be under increasing pressure to stamp out law breaking on these demos on all sides otherwise we're sliding into more violence.

The people that were supposedly ‘Churchill supporters’ are hardly demonstrating this in practice with their Nazi salutes, racist songs and chants and the desecration of memorials of heroes.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I can't stand him because of what he often says and the squealing way he says it.
I can't stand Miranda Hart because she's not funny yet seems to think she is .
I can't stand smoking in public and I can't stand rap music.
I'm not influenced by social media in saying this because I've been saying it long before the printing press was invented.
I'm sure lots of other people have been saying it for longer than social media came along.
Its called being a miserable bastard.

How old are you?

 

[mrtrench]

Yeah some of it is nonsense. Like anything there will be outliers.

These are not outliers: these are essentially the only statements from the leadership we have that tell us what they want to do (their approach) rather than what they hope to achieve. I have no issues with their goals. But their approach just sounds like Marxism, which I find deeply flawed.

 

[hill83]

I’ve even said before the phrase ‘Black lives matter’ is a bit clumsy but people are still doing their best to misinterpret it on purpose to make a point so it doesn’t matter too much anyway.

 

[hill83]

These are not outliers: these are essentially the only statements from the leadership we have that tell us what they want to do (their approach) rather than what they hope to achieve. I have no issues with their goals. But their approach just sounds like Marxism, which I find deeply flawed.

I mean insomuch as the people ‘on the ground’, the majority of people won’t subscribe to that. Not in this country anyway. Can’t comment on America as the nearest I’ve been to it was in the maid of the mist boat at Niagara Falls.

 

[mrtrench]

I mean insomuch as the people ‘on the ground’, the majority of people won’t subscribe to that.

I think that some will not. I don't know the proportions but I suspect the marches are made up of:

- Revolutionary Marxists and Anarchists
- Criminals and thugs.
- People who agree that black lives do matter and have no idea on the beliefs of the leadership.

 

[hill83]

How old are you?

At least 569 by the sounds of it.

 

[Grendel]

If you read this, then it all sounds reasonable:

What We Believe - Black Lives Matter

But these are aims and objectives. This is not a manifesto.

This is what one of the founders wrote in 2017, which is closer to a manifesto:

White people, here are 10 requests from a Black Lives Matter leader - LEO Weekly

And this is clearly part of a manifesto:

#DefundThePolice - Black Lives Matter

I'm fine with the first but think the second two are just mad and will not help one iota.

Correct if course

The situation going to be seized on by anarchists on the left and then will fuel extremists on the right

The AFL was a militant Marxist organisation- a sub division of the SWP which was tied to Moscow.

Legitimate aims which involve law breaking will always attract political antagonists

It’s not even race - look at the miners strike. The hierarchy were hell bent on smashing the government and wanted its militant form of Marxism into parliament

 

[Sick Boy]

The FBI have been warning for ages that white supremacists have being infiltrating the police and there's a wealth of evidence that the police are racist. I linked a Washington.post article somewhere on this forum with some horrendous statistics in it.
Also anecdotal evidence I know but I've asked several times on here and no one has answered, why did police in the States allow armed white anti lock down protestors to enter government buildings, why use kid gloves when arresting white mass shooters?

Look at the central park incident where the woman threatened to call the police on the bird spottet and say he thrratened her when the footage showed he didnt.
Look at the one that has come to light this week with the black guy who was putting a black lives matter sign in his garden where white women threatened to call the police and say it wasn't his house.
The insinuation is clear, You're a black man and contact with the police could potentially be dangerous for.

I agree about the level of racism today compared to the 70s but we're talking about the UK. The States is different.

The UK is nowhere near as bad the USA but for some reason political discourse from the USA seems to be entering into Britain’s more and more.

 

[TomRad85]

I think that some will not. I don't know the proportions but I suspect the marches are made up of:

- Revolutionary Marxists and Anarchists
- Criminals and thugs.
- People who agree that black lives do matter and have no idea on the beliefs of the leadership.

The proportions are hard to judge, I hope many involved are for the right reasons but for many others it's just another marxist grab for power. Some in this forum will be ok with that of course.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

[Deleted member 5849]

[

I’ve even said before the phrase ‘Black lives matter’ is a bit clumsy but people are still doing their best to misinterpret it on purpose to make a point so it doesn’t matter too much anyway.

Tbf I thought it was quite a good phrase myself. It's a statement nobody can argue with in isolation, unless you are a card carrying bigot!

 

[mrtrench]

[

Tbf I thought it was quite a good phrase myself. It's a statement nobody can argue with in isolation, unless you are a card carrying bigot!

I agree - it's a strong message with which few would disagree. My concerns are all about what you see when you dig behind the slogan.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The UK is nowhere near as bad the USA but for some reason political discourse from the USA seems to be entering into Britain’s more and more.

Obsession with the USA in the media esp. We get almost as much coverage (sometimes more) on what's going on over there as we do of our own, so hardly surprising it's seeped into our way of governing and way of life.

Then look at pretty much everywhere else - very vague and kept to a short report. We don't get constant coverage of say French or German elections let alone picking of candidates etc. Most places, inc a number we would do very well to know more about to understand alternative ways of thinking such as Scandinavia, get none at all.

 

[Grendel]

The UK is nowhere near as bad the USA but for some reason political discourse from the USA seems to be entering into Britain’s more and more.

It really isn’t this is handbags at dawn compared to the 80’s and again you try and make unfounded statements regarding the uk

There is r a statistic on Earth - there probably is on twitter land - that doesn’t show the uk as a more racially integrated society than the rest of Europe. Most European countries have far greater problems and far greater extremist political representation - this doesn’t mean that it’s utopia - it obviously is not - but most of Europe have far more issues and are more extreme in this area than the uk

 

[clint van damme]

The UK is nowhere near as bad the USA but for some reason political discourse from the USA seems to be entering into Britain’s more and more.

It is. And as much as a show of solidarity was a good thing Its depressing how much trouble it's lead to when we have enough problems of our own.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

[

Tbf I thought it was quite a good phrase myself. It's a statement nobody can argue with in isolation, unless you are a card carrying bigot!

I certainly think it's one of the better phrases. If being a pedant it could arguably do with a 'too' on the end, giving it the emphasis on racial inequality but preventing the rhetoric of 'all lives matter' etc.

There are quite a few that I don't like the terminology of as they seem ripe to be slowly over time used for supremacy rather than equality - stuff like feminism and NAACP.

 

[Nick]

The US stuff I think is down to the news / social media etc. When I was 10 or 11 I couldn't tell you a thing about US politics and would only know who the president was if they were on the Simpsons.

Now you have kids trying to discuss US politics when they have no fucking idea what they are on about, just something they have seen on the internet.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

The UK is nowhere near as bad the USA but for some reason political discourse from the USA seems to be entering into Britain’s more and more.

Just my twopenneth... I would say a big part of that is because both play on Nationalism. Patriotism is not the same thing, that just means you want the best for your country. Nationalism means you will refuse to ever accept there is anything wrong in your country and defend everything, even the indefensible. Large parts of USA and U.K. (and they’re not the only ones either) call themselves ‘patriotic’ but they’re not, they’re being Nationalistic- and so want to be seen as the greatest, the best, the most powerful, never ever done anything wrong in their history. So now you have Nationalists who see attempts to address some things as an affront to their very identity, and you have other groups who do want to recognise problems & fix them, and you end up in the state we’re in now with the country divided across all kinds of lines as the knock on effect. What’s that quote- “Nationalism is the measles of the world”, for me that’s dead right.

nb- no attempts to offend, abuse or be uncivil were made in the making of this post. Have a good day

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You being an example of someone who retorts to antagonism and then gets personally offended when it comes back

Thanks for proving my point G, you only live for the wind up.

 

[Sick Boy]

It really isn’t this is handbags at dawn compared to the 80’s and again you try and make unfounded statements regarding the uk

There is r a statistic on Earth - there probably is on twitter land - that doesn’t show the uk as a more racially integrated society than the rest of Europe. Most European countries have far greater problems and far greater extremist political representation - this doesn’t mean that it’s utopia - it obviously is not - but most of Europe have far more issues and are more extreme in this area than the uk

I just said that the UK is nowhere near as bad as the USA ffs.

 

[Grendel]

Thanks for proving my point G, you only live for the wind up.

With respect a person whose been putting images of Gammon, refusing to engage in any debate (have you made any attempt to engage with Mr Trench) and sided with absurd trolls like Tony, David and Ring of Steel really has nowhere to go on that accusation

 

[mrtrench]

With respect a person whose been putting images of Gammon, refusing to engage in any debate (have you made any attempt to engage with Mr Trench) and sided with absurd trolls like Tony, David and Ring of Steel really has nowhere to go on that accusation

I just deleted my previous post - I thought your response was odd. I ignore Brighton so I hadn't seen what you were replying to.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

With respect a person whose been putting images of Gammon, refusing to engage in any debate (have you made any attempt to engage with Mr Trench) and sided with absurd trolls like Tony, David and Ring of Steel really has nowhere to go on that accusation

With respect when I attempted to engage in one with you on the return to schools you went away and just made digs about lazy teachers. When Coventrian wrote disgusting abuse to individual posters and called the teaching unions a bunch of faggots you stuck up for him. When has Trench tried to engage with me for me to ignore him?

It really is just you I have a problem with on this site since yesterday's bannings and I'm hardly the only one who thinks so.

 

[Grendel]

While we are on it let’s also discuss the absurdity of no platforming

I would pretty much guarantee this concept would be endorsed if Nick Griffin posted on this forum

Griffin rose to prominence because of the dumb EU elections and there was outrage when he appeared on Question Time

The appearance sent him and his party into oblivion. He looked strange, he stuttered he was flustered as he’d never had to face the public - the end for him

It’s also a mistake made with Ireland. The dumbing of voices and censorship was stupid. After the Warrington and Brighton massacres the odious duo of Adams and McGuiness should have been prime guests on such a programme. The look of perplexity and fear would have been a joy to behold

Russell Brand was a laughable pathetic revolutionary who believed in his publicity - his experience on question time was a joy. Everyone booed laughed and sniggered. Like Griffin you could see the descending horror on his face as he realised his supporters were a phone box in a nation

So let Mr Robinson have his platform. Let all extremists have it. It finishes them off very quickly

 

[Grendel]

I just deleted my previous post - I thought your response was odd. I ignore Brighton so I hadn't seen what you were replying to.

I should ignore him as well to be fair he’s another firebrand with zero substance

 

[Grendel]

With respect when I attempted to engage in one with you on the return to schools you went away and just made digs about lazy teachers. When Coventrian wrote disgusting abuse to individual posters and called the teaching unions a bunch of faggots you stuck up for him. When has Trench tried to engage with me for me to ignore him?

It really is just you I have a problem with on this site since yesterday's bannings and I'm hardly the only one who thinks so.

Trench ignores It seems you also you ignore Dugdale and I’m not exactly sure what ignore means as you reply to every post I make

 

[mrtrench]

I should ignore him as well to be fair he’s another firebrand with zero substance

He crossed a line a long time ago. I don't even remember what he wrote but it was abusive and disrespectful. For the record I think he's the only person I've ever put on ignore.