Competitive Squad Get it out there lads................. (3 Viewers)

[Grendel]

We need 3 strikers Jeffers and Daniels should only be considered in dire emergencies.

 

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[shmmeee]

We need 3 strikers Jeffers and Daniels should only be considered in dire emergencies.

See that's the position that really tested my "don't buy subs" hypothesis. I agree, but if you buy in three you're saying to at least one of them "you're not playing" and saying to McDonald (who when fit started looking like a real asset) "you're not good enough".

I'd say 3 first choice strikers is enough and if injury crisis hits for more than a game or two then you get a loan in. So, one permanent, one loan and perhaps another loan if needed.

We have to realise we don't have the luxury of paying someone 4k a week or whatever to sit on their arse. Take out the players who weren't good enough to get in ahead of the kids last season or who were injured and we'd probably halve our wage bill:

- Wood
- McPake
- Eastwood
- Bell
- Baker

Why the hell were we paying this lot? And why on long contracts? Bell and Baker are on the longest contracts at the club and they're not even our best midfielders. Madness.

 

[dongonzalos]

No point buying in subs when we have kids, I'd be happy to fill in the blanks on this team then everyone not mentioned is backup. We have a decent squad and I don't think we need 30 players.

Murphy
Clarke ????? Wood ????? (NEED another LB as we have none coming through)
?????
????? Thomas
McSheffrey
????? McDonald

That's 5 signings and I think would make us competitive, obviously if we get key injuries then loans need to be looked at, but I think that's a fair balance between running a tight ship and spending on players who won't get a game. It gives us this squad:

GK: Murphy, Dunn, Burge - Looks good to me for a promotion push
LB: ????, Hussey - I like Hussey, but we do need backup and as I said no point in buying subs
CBs: ?????, Wood, Cameron, Willis, Henderson - a little light, but again any injuries to the first two would require a loanee
RB: Clarke, Christie - Looks good for L1
DCM/CM: ????, ????, Deegan, Thomas, Bell, Baker, Ruffles, Bigi - You'd hope the backup three of Deegan, Bell and Baker would be able to cut it in L1, but this is our weakest area and one we desperately need decent players in. Norwood would be a step in the right direction
AM: McSheffrey, Baker, Ruffles, Roberts - Again a little weak and I'm reusing Ruffles and Baker, but would be OK and Sheffers isn't really injury prone
ST: ????, McDonald, Jeffers, Daniels - Again quite weak past the first two, maybe get a loanee in here

So worst case scenario is 5 signings (CB, LB, CM, CM, ST) and 2 loans depending on squad fitness (CB, ST)

That's the minimum I want to see. What I don't want is a return to the bad old days of quantity over quality and you have a load of deadwood sat around not playing on 3 year deals.

EDIT: Oh, forgot to say that includes ROD, McPake, Cranie and Keogh going, to be honest I can't see Bigi going and if he did I think we've got better anyway, not been impressed since his first few games really.

Sorry probably me but a bit confused by all of that.

In summary are you saying

Murphy Dunn burge GK ok, I agree

Rb Clarke Christie ok, I agree

Lb Hussey and a new signing I agree

Cb wood Cameron, Willis, Henderson. New signing needed I agree

Midfield Deegen, baker, Bell, sheff, Thomas

So 2 New signings 3 if Bigi goes?

With Bigi I take you think he will say no as I am sure sisu will accept 800 k plus?

Strikers

You think cody, jeffers Daniels and shefg dragged out if midfield. Is sufficient.

It is a rare occurannce but I agree with Duffy. We need 3 strikers.

So I agree with most of you points accept strikers.

If Bigi goes you are saying sign 6 experienced players. Hold back on the loanees and use them when we have a problem. Ie target the loanees to where they are required. That makes a lot of sense.

As I say agree with you but definitely throw in a couple of strikers so to me that would be 7 or 8 experienced players depending on Bigi and maybe wood's situation.

Then I agree with you only get the loanees once we get injuries.

As at the start of last season I imagine people you would have thought were would be subs became the main players.

 

[Sky Blue Kid]

Sorry probably me but a bit confused by all of that.

In summary are you saying

Murphy Dunn burge GK ok, I agree

Rb Clarke Christie ok, I agree

Lb Hussey and a new signing I agree

Cb wood Cameron, Willis, Henderson. New signing needed I agree

Midfield Deegen, baker, Bell, sheff, Thomas

So 2 New signings 3 if Bigi goes?

With Bigi I take you think he will say no as I am sure sisu will accept 800 k plus?

Strikers

You think cody, jeffers Daniels and shefg dragged out if midfield. Is sufficient.

It is a rare occurannce but I agree with Duffy. We need 3 strikers.

So I agree with most of you points accept strikers.

If Bigi goes you are saying sign 6 experienced players. Hold back on the loanees and use them when we have a problem. Ie target the loanees to where they are required. That makes a lot of sense.

As I say agree with you but definitely throw in a couple of strikers so to me that would be 7 or 8 experienced players depending on Bigi and maybe wood's situation.

Then I agree with you only get the loanees once we get injuries.

As at the start of last season I imagine people you would have thought were would be subs became the main players.

Am I right or wrong when saying, there are windows for bringing in loanees?

 

[ccfcway]

Am I right or wrong when saying, there are windows for bringing in loanees?

SISU have boarded them up !

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

I'm not sure saying "we only want 11 good players" is the way to get promoted, Shmmeee! What about injuries? What about competition for places? And more to the point, "an injury would require a loan"-that has happened a good dozen or so times in the last 18 months, and on none of those occasions have SISU seen fit to sanction a loan signing! Ask Aidy Boothroyd, they promised it to him constantly and it never happened.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I'm not sure saying "we only want 11 good players" is the way to get promoted, Shmmeee! What about injuries? What about competition for places? And more to the point, "an injury would require a loan"-that has happened a good dozen or so times in the last 18 months, and on none of those occasions have SISU seen fit to sanction a loan signing! Ask Aidy Boothroyd, they promised it to him constantly and it never happened.

Goodness knows how we actually convinced them to stump up for Marlon King...

 

[davebart]

I understand Aidy paid part of Marlon's wages himself.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

How do you know that?

 

[dongonzalos]

I take it that is a blag?

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

No point buying in subs when we have kids, I'd be happy to fill in the blanks on this team then everyone not mentioned is backup. We have a decent squad and I don't think we need 30 players.

Murphy
Clarke ????? Wood ????? (NEED another LB as we have none coming through)
?????
????? Thomas
McSheffrey
????? McDonald

That's 5 signings and I think would make us competitive, obviously if we get key injuries then loans need to be looked at, but I think that's a fair balance between running a tight ship and spending on players who won't get a game. It gives us this squad:

GK: Murphy, Dunn, Burge - Looks good to me for a promotion push
LB: ????, Hussey - I like Hussey, but we do need backup and as I said no point in buying subs
CBs: ?????, Wood, Cameron, Willis, Henderson - a little light, but again any injuries to the first two would require a loanee
RB: Clarke, Christie - Looks good for L1
DCM/CM: ????, ????, Deegan, Thomas, Bell, Baker, Ruffles, Bigi - You'd hope the backup three of Deegan, Bell and Baker would be able to cut it in L1, but this is our weakest area and one we desperately need decent players in. Norwood would be a step in the right direction
AM: McSheffrey, Baker, Ruffles, Roberts - Again a little weak and I'm reusing Ruffles and Baker, but would be OK and Sheffers isn't really injury prone
ST: ????, McDonald, Jeffers, Daniels - Again quite weak past the first two, maybe get a loanee in here

So worst case scenario is 5 signings (CB, LB, CM, CM, ST) and 2 loans depending on squad fitness (CB, ST)

That's the minimum I want to see. What I don't want is a return to the bad old days of quantity over quality and you have a load of deadwood sat around not playing on 3 year deals.

EDIT: Oh, forgot to say that includes ROD, McPake, Cranie and Keogh going, to be honest I can't see Bigi going and if he did I think we've got better anyway, not been impressed since his first few games really.

Not sure I agree, lets use for example the strikers. I agree you don't buy players with the intention of leaving them on the bench all the time. If we had 4 first team strikers all eager and good enough for this level with injuries, suspensions, loss of form and general fitness with having to play more games it is likely that all 4 would get good amounts of playing time and we will have options on the bench to change the game positively as well ,these players would not be sat on there arse collecting there pay packet and would all be giving good contributions to the first team.

It doesn't seem practical to wait until someone is injured before you draft in a loan because of all minor injuries you get through a season, lets say Mcdonald gets a minor knock that will recover fully in 2 weeks but he could play through with injections. Do you draft in a loan just for 2 games (assuming the loan window is opem), play Jeffers/Daniels or play a 75% Mcdonald. If we have 4 strikers all decent at this level it is a no brainer you play one of them whilst the other gets a rest. Most clubs always have 3 or 4 minor injuries to there first team at one time.

I am guessing it can be only good for training also to have a big squad also, it must be like 7/8 v 7/8 in training or first team vs youth team which can't really be useful and players won't be going full tilt to avoid injury.

 

[dongonzalos]

Not sure I agree, lets use for example the strikers. I agree you don't buy players with the intention of leaving them on the bench all the time. If we had 4 first team strikers all eager and good enough for this level with injuries, suspensions, loss of form and general fitness with having to play more games it is likely that all 4 would get good amounts of playing time and we will have options on the bench to change the game positively as well ,these players would not be sat on there arse collecting there pay packet and would all be giving good contributions to the first team.

It doesn't seem practical to wait until someone is injured before you draft in a loan because of all minor injuries you get through a season, lets say Mcdonald gets a minor knock that will recover fully in 2 weeks but he could play through with injections. Do you draft in a loan just for 2 games (assuming the loan window is opem), play Jeffers/Daniels or play a 75% Mcdonald. If we have 4 strikers all decent at this level it is a no brainer you play one of them whilst the other gets a rest. Most clubs always have 3 or 4 minor injuries to there first team at one time.

I am guessing it can be only good for training also to have a big squad also, it must be like 7/8 v 7/8 in training or first team vs youth team which can't really be useful and players won't be going full tilt to avoid injury.

I agree with 4 strikers. Personally I think you need at least 2 decent players in each position. Then the kids on top.
However I agree on top of this hold off on the loans. Incase the first 2 decent players in one position get injured. Then you have the loanee option to fall back on in that position.

For me 22 experienced players. I include Cameron, Christie, Bigi if still here and Thomas as experienced as mental as that sounds. Otherwise my demands would be too unrealistic.

Then 6 kids. Then be ready to do the loans where people pick up long term injuries, get arrested for rape, demand a transfer. Spit their teddies out and demand to go Scotland as they are not automitic first choice. Refuse to train hard.. or just don't work out as a good player as a kid or new signing.

I get the feeling most people seem to be in the same general area 6 to 10 signings depending on exits and 4 loanees.

Is this then a reasonable expectation out of this deal between the council and SISU.

 

[Grendel]

The club is hopelessly weak with its forward line up. Platt and o Donovan were very poor anyway and even nimley was a poor finisher. So we need 3 forwards that will give us variety and cover for injuries and suspensions. Lack of goals coupled with thorns ludicrous rigidity with tactics were major failings last season.

 

[dongonzalos]

You could get towards who are flexible enough to cover the wings as well if needs be.

Does anyone know if 3 decent free transfer striker whose wages would be affordable at this level.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Garry O'Connor's been released by Hibs just today; he's also just been done for snorting coke off the back of a car then lying to the police. His wage demands would be low, he's familiar with the area down here, and he would score ample goals in League 1, if his personal issues were settled-if we're desperate, and we are, I wouldn't totally rule him out.

 

[dongonzalos]

We could pay him half in wages, half in powder which would not show up on the books for the purpose of the FFP side of things.

You are right he would score at this level. His wages can't be that high at hibs. However it sounds like another fuckwit footballer who does not know how lucky he is, would he be another potential fatswood?

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Garry O'Connor's been released by Hibs just today; he's also just been done for snorting coke off the back of a car then lying to the police. His wage demands would be low, he's familiar with the area down here, and he would score ample goals in League 1, if his personal issues were settled-if we're desperate, and we are, I wouldn't totally rule him out.

Apparently he tried to do a runner and but could only manage 300m before he was out of breath, him and Freddy could be a great combo.

Anyway this isn't his first time so personally I would stay away, not because of morals but too much of a risk for someone who doesn't strike me as amazing. Looking at his stats he has only ever scored goals in Scotland an even then he has only ever been a 1 in 3 scorer in Scotland.

 

[Astute]

Apparently he tried to do a runner and but could only manage 300m before he was out of breath, him and Freddy could be a great combo.

At least we know he aint on speed

 

[CCFC123]

The council say any deal for 50% of the stadium will only be agreed, if whoever gets it agrees to make the squad competitive.

Sisu are releasing players left right and centre.
So if they tell the council we will make 5 new signings that sounds quite good.
However as fans this is our chance to get it out there what competitive really is I make it 11 signings 7 experienced freebies and 4 season long loanees.

I have emailed Cllr Mutton to express this view and contacted the telegraph asking them to do a story reviewing what we need.

You may or may not agree with 11 but I think you may find it will be more that 4-5.

I think it is important whilst talks are going on, we need to try and define what makes a squad competitive

Someone else has suggested 20 experienced, 4 raw kids, 4 loanees I agree with that.

Below I am been very generous on some players classing them as experienced.

We currently have 27 if the 5 go that we think will go that leaves 22, 9 of whom are untested kids.

So my logic is 7 experienced signings, 4 loanees.

Gives you a squad of 28, 20 experienced, 4 raw kids 4 loanees.

We need to get this out there as fact that it is the minimum to make us competitive

Please get the message out there by whatever means you can so we can set the goal posts


This is the squad on the offal

1 Joe Murphy Goalkeeper Exp Pro
2 Richard Keogh Defender Leaving
3 Chris Hussey Defender Exp Pro
6 James McPake Defender Leaving
7 David Bell Midfielder Exp Pro
8 Carl Baker Midfielder Exp Pro
11 Gary McSheffrey Striker Exp Pro
12 Gary Deegan Midfielder Exp Pro
13 Chris Dunn Goalkeeper Exp Pro (I am been generous)
14 Cody McDonald Striker Exp Pro
15 Martin Cranie Defender Leaving
19 Roy O'Donovan Striker Leaving
24 Richard Wood Defender Exp Pro
26 Jordan Clarke Defender Exp Pro (I am been generous)
27 Shaun Jeffers Striker Raw
28 Callum Wilson Striker Raw
29 Billy Daniels Striker Raw
30 Nathan Cameron Defender Experienced Pro (I am been generous)
31 Cyrus Christie Defender Experienced Pro (I am been generous)
32 Conor Thomas Midfielder Experienced Pro (I am been generous)
33 Lee Burge Goalkeeper Raw
34 Gael Bigirimana Midfielder Leaving
35 Joshua Ruffels Midfielder Raw
36 Aaron Phillips Midfielder Raw
37 Jordan Willis Defender Raw
38 Will Roberts Midfielder Raw
39 Joe Henderson Raw

I wouldn't worry regarding SISU getting a hold any % of the RICOH. It wont happen and SISU know it.

SISU business ethics (lack off) or business sense/strategy/honesty etc etc has finally caught up with them. It's too late for SISU now.

 

[CCFC123]

See that's the position that really tested my "don't buy subs" hypothesis. I agree, but if you buy in three you're saying to at least one of them "you're not playing" and saying to McDonald (who when fit started looking like a real asset) "you're not good enough".

I'd say 3 first choice strikers is enough and if injury crisis hits for more than a game or two then you get a loan in. So, one permanent, one loan and perhaps another loan if needed.

We have to realise we don't have the luxury of paying someone 4k a week or whatever to sit on their arse. Take out the players who weren't good enough to get in ahead of the kids last season or who were injured and we'd probably halve our wage bill:

- Wood
- McPake
- Eastwood
- Bell
- Baker

Why the hell were we paying this lot? And why on long contracts? Bell and Baker are on the longest contracts at the club and they're not even our best midfielders. Madness.

beacause were paying them as were a soft touch and have been for years. It's to easy for them to take the money and be rewarded for failure. I'll bang the drum again these shirkers have been allowed to get away with it as the supporters put up with shite from them.

Were to soft at the club and these bastards are a cancer that needs cutting out.

 

[Astute]

- Wood
- McPake
- Eastwood
- Bell
- Baker

Why the hell were we paying this lot? And why on long contracts? Bell and Baker are on the longest contracts at the club and they're not even our best midfielders. Madness.

Wood is our best CB by miles, including Keogh. Ask kduffy. He will preach this to you as he knows for sure this is fact :facepalm:

 

[Grendel]

Wood is our best CB by miles, including Keogh. Ask kduffy. He will preach this to you as he knows for sure this is fact :facepalm:

He's certainly a lot better than Mcpake, Cameron and Cranie. Ok at left back as well if required. As he's left footed anyway who do you prefer him or Cranie?

 

[Astute]

Wood is a far superior centre half than both Cranie and Keogh. One of Thorns failings was the ridiculous insistance of pairing Cranie and Keogh at all costs even if that meant exposing Christie and having McPake and Wood on the bench

Slight change of ideas now, considering last night you was adamant Wood was our best CB by far, although Keogh was our player of the season by far after playing CB, then wonder why a lot of us struggle to take you seriously at times.

Exposing Christie....yes.....one of our young players that was doing his best whilst learning his job.

 

[Nonleagueherewecome]

Garry O'Connor's been released by Hibs just today; he's also just been done for snorting coke off the back of a car then lying to the police. His wage demands would be low, he's familiar with the area down here, and he would score ample goals in League 1, if his personal issues were settled-if we're desperate, and we are, I wouldn't totally rule him out.

Sounds like he's got the worst aspects of King, Hughes and Kyle combined..perfect for us then, snap him up, guaranteed 20 goals plus in L1!

 

[blend]

How many loan signings are we allowed over a season, and are they still split between short term and long term? I think we'll max them out but not sure of the quality we'll be able to attract.

 

[stupot07]

How many loan signings are we allowed over a season, and are they still split between short term and long term? I think we'll max them out but not sure of the quality we'll be able to attract.

I think you can have as many as you want but can only have 5 on the pitch (or match squad?) at a given time.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

I think over a season you are allowed something like 8 loan players

 

[stupot07]

You can have as many loan players as you want in a season but can only name 5 in a match day squad, and can take no more than 4 players from a given club.

52.3 There shall be three categories of temporary loan transfers allowed - Standard Loans, Emergency Loans and Youth Loans. The following restrictions shall apply to each type of loan:

52.3.1 A maximum of 5 loan Players (Standard, Emergency or Youth) can be named in the Players listed on a team sheet for any individual match played under the auspices of The League. This figure shall include any additional loan of a goalkeeper approved by the Executive under the provisions of Regulation 54.

52.3.2 Up to 4 loan Players (Standard, Emergency or Youth) may join one Club from another Club in any Season. An additional Youth Loan Player may be added to this figure.

http://www.football-league.co.uk/regulations/20110629/section-6-players_2293633_2125731

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

If you look further it down it says a club can only have 4 players U23 and 4 players O23 on a standard loan during a season, I think you can have as many as you want on an "emergency loan" though so it kind of defeats the point anyway.

 

[stupot07]

You right I didn't look that far down!

But like you said the emergency loan rules throws that out the window. Plenty of teams took more than 8 over the course of the season including Doncaster who had 15 including:
Mason
Brown
Lalkovic
Parkin
Ilunga
Kirkland
Ikeme nov - jan
Bee
Toulon
Fortune
Button
Plessis
Robert
Ikeme -march - apr
Piquionne

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

Will be lucky to sign over 2 players with transfers, loans and free agents combined so it doesn't matter anyway.

 

[Ccfc1984]

Id say we'd two players in each position to be classed as a competitive squad. I'd play 5-3-2 in this division:
Murphy
Dunn

Keogh. Cranie. Wood
Willis. Cameron. Mcpake

Clarke. Hussey
Christie. ?
Deegan. Thomas. Bigi
Bell. Ruffles Baker

McDonald. McSheffrey
Jeffers. O'Donovan

In Sisu's eyes we will only be one player off a competitive squad if no one leaves!

 

[dongonzalos]

Id say we'd two players in each position to be classed as a competitive squad. I'd play 5-3-2 in this division:
Murphy
Dunn

Keogh. Cranie. Wood
Willis. Cameron. Mcpake

Clarke. Hussey
Christie. ?
Deegan. Thomas. Bigi
Bell. Ruffles Baker

McDonald. McSheffrey
Jeffers. O'Donovan

In Sisu's eyes we will only be one player off a competitive squad if no one leaves!

Thats looks good such a shame Keogh, Cranie, Mcpake, Bigi and possibly wood will not be part of it

 

[pw362]

Why does the premier league have the 25 man squad rule but football league doesn't?

 

[cloughie]

You say SISU are releasing "Left Right and Centre"....who has actually left? While i am not a SISU fan, you have to be accurate if you want to go to print say, or get the paper to back you. You claim some of the above are leaving, not actually factual yet is it!!

I prefer to wait until they have released a few or the embargo is lifted and they do not buy.
Before we start kicking off about the squad being ripped apart before it has!! They have "apparantely turned down an offer for keogh" is that not positive action?

correct but how many left last season and have not been replaced

We got relegated due to that

So how do we expect to BOUNCE back even by keeping the players we already have ,never mind losing some of them ?