George Floyd (38 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

Nothing wrong at all with speaking out against Israel's illegally plans to annex the West Bank and Gaza Strip.

People can show solidarity to other oppressed people.

Yeah what the racial justice movement really needs is to embroil itself in one of the worlds longest running conflicts with two clear racial angles to it.

It’s terrible politics and activism. Stay focused.

 

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[shmmeee]

I can grasp it which is why I've been asking questions rather than shut up and agreeing like said by some.

A bit random to have a political group on Football shirts though? Maybe the focus should have just been on the existing kick it out.

Kick It Out is specifically about racism in football, BLM is about the wider issue. There’s also a difference between the BLM movement and the “official” BLM organisations. Saying “Black Lives Matter” shouldn’t be a statement of support for a particular political group it’s a general statement. The groups claiming the name really don’t help.

 

[clint van damme]

I can grasp it which is why I've been asking questions rather than shut up and agreeing like said by some.

A bit random to have a political group on Football shirts though? Maybe the focus should have just been on the existing kick it out.

which is questioning their strategy, which is fair enough, I question it myself.

 

[Nick]

Kick It Out is specifically about racism in football, BLM is about the wider issue. There’s also a difference between the BLM movement and the “official” BLM organisations. Saying “Black Lives Matter” shouldn’t be a statement of support for a particular political group it’s a general statement. The groups claiming the name really don’t help.

Which is why the premier League should have focused on that or maybe a non political charity to help?

BLM seems to be all about the politics rather than the actual point.

 

[David O'Day]

Yeah what the racial justice movement really needs is to embroil itself in one of the worlds longest running conflicts with two clear racial angles to it.

It’s terrible politics and activism. Stay focused.

Nah you could not be more wrong if you tried.

 

[shmmeee]

Nah you could not be more wrong if you tried.

Do you think this brought more people into the cause or pushed some away or made no difference?

 

[clint van damme]

I think there are two problems here. One is strategic: the BLM organisation has a wide alt-left agenda, and the raising of this in the public consciousness in this way risks the possibility of diluting the mainstream support or their main constituency. (BTW, pretty surprising that BBC is running a 'Black Lives Matter' banner in its football, unless they are too stupid to realise that BLM is not simply a slogan but a political organisation).

Second is that that they are looking to conflate Starnier's (and the Governments') position on anti-Zionism (and which rightly condemns this move by Netanyahu) with Starnier's attempts to rid the party of its antisemitic, pro-Palestinian elements. Time to bring politics back to the Centre.

good post, but do you think it's right to conflate being pro-Palestinian with being anti Semitic?
Of course there's a cross over but I see nothing wrong with being pro-Palestinian in regard to wanting them to have their own functioning state that co-exists with Israel in something approaching normality.

 

[skybluetony176]

BLM seems to be all about the politics rather than the actual point.

It’s impossible to untie the two. Politics has been part of the problem since forever, by default it has to be part of the solution. It’s just an empty slogan otherwise.

 

[shmmeee]

I think there are two problems here. One is strategic: the BLM organisation has a wide alt-left agenda, and the raising of this in the public consciousness in this way risks the possibility of diluting the mainstream support or their main constituency. (BTW, pretty surprising that BBC is running a 'Black Lives Matter' banner in its football, unless they are too stupid to realise that BLM is not simply a slogan but a political organisation).

Second is that that they are looking to conflate Starnier's (and the Governments') position on anti-Zionism (and which rightly condemns this move by Netanyahu) with Starnier's attempts to rid the party of its antisemitic, pro-Palestinian elements. Time to bring politics back to the Centre.

Im not sure the line between message and organisation is as clear cut as you make out: Black Lives Matter - Wikipedia

The BLM orgs are not BLM.

 

[Deleted member 4439]

good post, but do you think it's right to conflate being pro-Palestinian with being anti Semitic?
Of course there's a cross over but I see nothing wrong with being pro-Palestinian in regard to wanting them to have their own functioning state that co-exists with Israel in something approaching normality.

Yes I do agree, and in fact did realise before posting that I doing a little conflation of my own. The two don't go hand in hand by any means.

 

[Nick]

good post, but do you think it's right to conflate being pro-Palestinian with being anti Semitic?
Of course there's a cross over but I see nothing wrong with being pro-Palestinian in regard to wanting them to have their own functioning state that co-exists with Israel in something approaching normality.

As seen on the other thread, a lot of that is over my head.

Even so, it's not really the point at hand for what BLM was meant to be and pushed as.

I doubt it would be all over football shirts if this sort of stuff would have been pushed a few weeks ago, it is going to dilute the actual point about equality when going off on political rants which isn't right.

 

[Nick]

Im not sure the line between message and organisation is as clear cut as you make out: Black Lives Matter - Wikipedia

The BLM orgs are not BLM.

Black Lives Matter UK has raised a fair bit of cash as well off the back of the George Floyd stuff and then starts about the Israel politics.

It should literally just stick to the point of everybody being equal, regardless of skin colour. Nobody can disagree with that (if they aren't a prick).

Bringing the politics in, it blurs it all.

 

[clint van damme]

As seen on the other thread, a lot of that is over my head.

Even so, it's not really the point at hand for what BLM was meant to be and pushed as.

I doubt it would be all over football shirts if this sort of stuff would have been pushed a few weeks ago, it is going to dilute the actual point about equality when going off on political rants which isn't right.

they were shown solidarity by the Palestinian national council and it was right to respond but I personally don't think the statement they put out was the right tone.
They don't want to be getting embroiled in the the Israel/Palestine situation, in my opinion.

 

[Grendel]

any movement like this is political Nick. I'm not sure why you can't grasp that.
Should they be extending their reach into Palestinian affairs, I'm not sure they should myself. But either way - it's political!

They also want to end capitalism don’t they?

 

[Nick]

they were shown solidarity by the Palestinian national council and it was right to respond but I personally don't think the statement they put out was the right tone.
They don't want to be getting embroiled in the the Israel/Palestine situation, in my opinion.

It's the wrong sort of campaign, it gives stuff to then disagree with (the same as the defund the police stuff).

If it was simply "Black people are equal" and kept at that it would be a different story, of course they are equal and it will have given some organisations a kick. (For instance maybe the Kick it Out stuff in football could be expanded on a bit and football push that).

 

[shmmeee]

Black Lives Matter UK has raised a fair bit of cash as well off the back of the George Floyd stuff and then starts about the Israel politics.

It should literally just stick to the point of everybody being equal, regardless of skin colour. Nobody can disagree with that (if they aren't a prick).

Bringing the politics in, it blurs it all.

That’s what I’m saying though, XR had the same problem being an unstructured organisation anyone could claim to represent. The BLM corp, BLM U.K., the BLM foundation aren’t “BLM” any more than PSB Group are all CCFC fans.

When I say I support BLM or footballers put it on their top or whatever they’re expressing support for the overall movement in the same way as when you sing Sky Blue Army you aren’t specifically endorsing every idea Tim Kalns has.

 

[Skybluefaz]

Entitlement? Was she maybe the best person for the job?

 

[skybluetony176]

They also want to end capitalism don’t they?

Malcom X stated that capitalism will never stop being racist and here we are 55 years after his death. Difficult to say he didn’t have a point when over half a century later the king of capitalism has triggered a worldwide movement through systematic racism. The fact that BLM or to be more exact sections of the BLM movement are saying this is a measurement of a failure of capitalism. Capitalism has had over half a century to prove Malcolm X wrong, that’s capitalism’s failure.

 

[Nick]

That’s what I’m saying though, XR had the same problem being an unstructured organisation anyone could claim to represent. The BLM corp, BLM U.K., the BLM foundation aren’t “BLM” any more than PSB Group are all CCFC fans.

When I say I support BLM or footballers put it on their top or whatever they’re expressing support for the overall movement in the same way as when you sing Sky Blue Army you aren’t specifically endorsing every idea Tim Kalns has.

Do all the people who have donated them over a million in total know that?

Like I keep saying, of course every human should want equality but it's dangerous to run around with banners with "Black Lives Matter" as you could be pushing anything. Same on football shirts etc etc.

 

[Grendel]

Do all the people who have donated them over a million in total know that?

Possibly not but to be fair if we are referring to BLM (uk) it’s pretty explicit on the go fund me page they are essentially a hard left movement that wants to change societies construct and its an “equality for all” message

 

[clint van damme]

They also want to end capitalism don’t they?

There's nothing I've seen that expresses any political affiliation on there website though given there objectives I think it's fair to assume they're fairly left wing.

 

[Nick]

Possibly not but to be fair if we are referring to BLM (uk) it’s pretty explicit on the go fund me page they are essentially a hard left movement that wants to change societies construct and its an “equality for all” message

Maybe they have been told to effectively just shut up and agree like I have in this thread? Maybe if they questioned it they were told they were "scared of being equal" or they were a "gammon" so just donated without reading it all.

 

[shmmeee]

Do all the people who have donated them over a million in total know that?

Like I keep saying, of course every human should want equality but it's dangerous to run around with banners with "Black Lives Matter" as you could be pushing anything. Same on football shirts etc etc.

Dunno mate, you’d have to ask them. The vast vast majority of people saying “black lives matter” simply mean “black lives matter” there’s nothing deeper to it. As I say XR had problems when a while supremacist group started using their name to call for immigration and population control. What do you do? Can’t police use of a phrase.

 

[Grendel]

There's nothing I've seen that expresses any political affiliation on there website though given there objectives I think it's fair to assume they're fairly left wing.

Looks pretty easy to find to me

UKBLM FUND organized by UKBLM Fund

 

[Nick]

Can’t police use of a phrase.

Which was my point about how it can mean different things depending on context, as does "White Lives Matter".

 

[Grendel]

Maybe they have been told to effectively just shut up and agree like I have in this thread? Maybe if they questioned it they were told they were "scared of being equal" or they were a "gammon" so just donated without reading it all.

The old AFL was the same. A die hard group with an unpleasant Marxist agenda behind some veil of credibility

 

[clint van damme]

Looks pretty easy to find to me

UKBLM FUND organized by UKBLM Fund

that's a gofund me page, I was on about their official site. I've had no reason to go to their gofund me page.

 

[Grendel]

that's a gofund me page, I was on about their official site. I've had no reason to go to their gofund me page.

It’s a radical organisation founded by self proclaimed Marxists in 2016 isn’t it?

 

[Nick]

Looks pretty easy to find to me

UKBLM FUND organized by UKBLM Fund

including but not limited to working class queer, trans, undocumented, disabled, Muslim, sex workers, women/non-binary, HIV+ people.

Standard night out in Nuneaton, where do I sign?

 

[clint van damme]

It’s a radical organisation founded by self proclaimed Marxists in 2016 isn’t it?

so you don't agree with on imperialism and white supremacy?

 

[Nick]

so you don't agree with on imperialism and white supremacy?

This is why it should just be:

"EVERYBODY SHOULD BE EQUAL, BLACK PEOPLE SHOULD BE EQUAL TO WHITE PEOPLE"

There's no discussion to be had about that in any normal person.

When it brings sly politics in, it ruins it.

 

[Grendel]

so you don't agree with on imperialism and white supremacy?

Oddly you’ve missed a key word out in the middle and of course white supremacy really refers to the people who own capitalism and we really all know what race they refer to here don’t we?

 

[Grendel]

Even if we look at the general movement it’s heavily motivated by a left wing agenda

White people, here are 10 requests from a Black Lives Matter leader - LEO Weekly

Police defunding is a prime objective

https://blacklivesmatter.com/defundthepolice/

 

[clint van damme]

Oddly you’ve missed a key word out in the middle and of course white supremacy really refers to the people who own capitalism and we really all know what race they refer to here don’t we?

you're massively off the mark, scratch underneath the far right street thugs who hate blacks and Asians and the target of any far right hierarchy is always the Jews.
And there's little conspiracy theory doing the rounds that George Soros is behind BLM, as antisemitic as you can get that, and something I'd imagine you'd be on board with

https://www.smh.com.au/world/north-...rge-as-protests-sweep-us-20200621-p554s6.html

 

[TomRad85]

It’s a radical organisation founded by self proclaimed Marxists in 2016 isn’t it?

Think a few more people are very slowly waking up to this.

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