WOKE Utopia (10 Viewers)

[skyblueinBaku]

I was reading this till i heard the word Gammon. I've heard it before on here but i don't know what it is. It is obviously defamatory to some one but why? As for Gammon i love a nice Gammon steak with a runny egg, yum yum.

"Gammon" is a stupid expression, as is "woke".

 

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[RegTheDonk]

Just checking that people realise Jonathan Pie is a spoof character? Some of the posts are making me wonder if thats registered with people!

Create a "spoof" character, or a paraday theme, and you can get away with things you normally wouldn't. How much of Alf Garnet is the real side of Johnny Speight only he would have known.

 

[shmmeee]

Where was the forcing of university?

Have you been in a secondary school post Blair? Uni attendance is seen as the be all and end all. I saw kids desperate to be a hairdresser pushed to 15 C+ grades, then A-Levels because that looks better for the school than a talented smart hairdresser doing her BTEC and starting a business.

Blair was explicit about having a target for uni attendance

 

[shmmeee]

Pie isn’t a real journalist but the views are those of Tom Walker who plays and writes him, he’s very open about that.

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/n...om-walker-talks-woke-labour-and-brexit/24/03/

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Create a "spoof" character, or a paraday theme, and you can get away with things you normally wouldn't. How much of Alf Garnet is the real side of Johnny Speight only he would have known.

I think the character is allowing him to largely say what he really thinks (he has to come up with the ideas for the character) but is able to
a. use the its a comedy character in defence when people are inevitably offended
b. allow him to mentally disassociate himself from it so he has the confidence to say it. Basically like a lot of us on here - hiding behind a persona. Just instead of a keyboard he does it behind a camera and a suit.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Have you been in a secondary school post Blair? Uni attendance is seen as the be all and end all. I saw kids desperate to be a hairdresser pushed to 15 C+ grades, then A-Levels because that looks better for the school than a talented smart hairdresser doing her BTEC and starting a business.

Blair was explicit about having a target for uni attendance

Yes, I left in 2001. How did Blair's target manifest itself in school behaviour? As far as I'm aware there is nothing in the funding formula or Ofsted that looks at destinations for people leaving school.

 

[Skybluefaz]

I think the character is allowing him to largely say what he really thinks (he has to come up with the ideas for the character) but is able to
a. use the its a comedy character in defence when people are inevitably offended
b. allow him to mentally disassociate himself from it so he has the confidence to say it. Basically like a lot of us on here - hiding behind a persona. Just instead of a keyboard he does it behind a camera and a suit.

c. Earn a living

 

[shmmeee]

Yes, I left in 2001. How did Blair's target manifest itself in school behaviour? As far as I'm aware there is nothing in the funding formula or Ofsted that looks at destinations for people leaving school.

2001 was very early Blair and I meant as an adult. Maybe it’s changed or I had particularly abnormal schools BSB and the other current teachers will set me right if so, but my experience was very much that schools are geared towards university admissions.

I mean here’s Blair’s speech in 1999 where he sets out the goal: BBC News | UK Politics | Tony Blair's speech in full

Also look at Aim Higher and the leaver destination surveys if you want to know about schools being pushed on this. School improvement is a lot wider than Ofsted.

Add in fees making it worthwhile unis chasing subpar students with subpar courses and you’ve got a recipe for disaster IMO.

Anyway I’ve already rowed back from the central premise as it’s a worldwide phenomenon.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

2001 was very early Blair and I meant as an adult. Maybe it’s changed or I had particularly abnormal schools BSB and the other current teachers will set me right if so, but my experience was very much that schools are geared towards university admissions.

I mean here’s Blair’s speech in 1999 where he sets out the goal: BBC News | UK Politics | Tony Blair's speech in full

Add in fees making it worthwhile unis chasing subpar students with subpar courses and you’ve got a recipe for distasteful IMO.

Anyway I’ve already towed back from the central premise as it’s a worldwide phenomenon.

I don't disagree with a lot of that, but I would be very wary of equating *what* is taught with the quality. There can be excellent quality social science degrees and yes, they do serve a purpose in society. There can also be poor quality IT degrees. The distilling across many institutions is the issue, rather than the subject matter.

I've always been for valuing manual trades more highly - where would we be without plumbers?!? But there is a space for seeming learning for learning's sake as well.

And a lot of it has been taught for the past 40 years, anyway!

 

[shmmeee]

I don't disagree with a lot of that, but I would be very wary of equating *what* is taught with the quality. There can be excellent quality social science degrees and yes, they do serve a purpose in society. There can also be poor quality IT degrees. The distilling across many institutions is the issue, rather than the subject matter.

I've always been for valuing manual trades more highly - where would we be without plumbers?!? But there is a space for seeming learning for learning's sake as well.

And a lot of it has been taught for the past 40 years, anyway!

IT shouldn’t be a degree, it’s a vocational subject IMO.

I have no real issue with the social sciences when done well but their explosion in recent years is down to a supply side issue not a demand one. Unis could accept more students that would pass onto these types of courses (Id argue Business/Marketing/etc falls into this bracket as well) and therefore get more funding.

If it were up to me I’d strip back to the core subjects for Bachelors degrees and have a final year upgrade to Masters where you specialise.

It’s all a problem with seeing education like sales and making it target driven rather than trying to fit students into the most appropriate route. Nurses and policemen don’t need degrees, most programmers don’t, I’m sure there’s other professions that would say the same thing. Look at Germany for a country that does vocational education a lot better IMO.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Have you been in a secondary school post Blair? Uni attendance is seen as the be all and end all. I saw kids desperate to be a hairdresser pushed to 15 C+ grades, then A-Levels because that looks better for the school than a talented smart hairdresser doing her BTEC and starting a business.

Blair was explicit about having a target for uni attendance

Yep - it wasn't forced but it was definitely 'pushed hard'. Schools would get more cash for those that continued along the academic route. Lad I went to school with was really into golf so wanted to do something along those lines and a non-academic route would've been best. But teachers and careers were coming up with things like a degree in golf course management to try and encourage him down that route when just an apprenticeship at a golf club would've been just as effective and probably resulted in more relevant qualifications.

Even some more traditional professions are arguably more suited to work based training and day release to do professional exams at college.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

c. Earn a living

He could earn a living without creating a character.

 

[fernandopartridge]

2001 was very early Blair and I meant as an adult. Maybe it’s changed or I had particularly abnormal schools BSB and the other current teachers will set me right if so, but my experience was very much that schools are geared towards university admissions.

I mean here’s Blair’s speech in 1999 where he sets out the goal: BBC News | UK Politics | Tony Blair's speech in full

Also look at Aim Higher and the leaver destination surveys if you want to know about schools being pushed on this. School improvement is a lot wider than Ofsted.

Add in fees making it worthwhile unis chasing subpar students with subpar courses and you’ve got a recipe for disaster IMO.

Anyway I’ve already rowed back from the central premise as it’s a worldwide phenomenon.

Fair enough, you have much closer experience than me

 

[Skybluefaz]

He could earn a living without creating a character.

He was struggling to find work as an actor. Made the first Pie video, it went off and here we are. He could earn a living doing other things yes but in an interview with Tom Walker that is how he describes it.

 

[shmmeee]

On the Woke topic, found this an excellent perspective on “cancelling” people.

 

[Nick]

On the Woke topic, found this an excellent perspective on “cancelling” people.

Agree with her as well.

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

On the Woke topic, found this an excellent perspective on “cancelling” people.

"The more you accept you are wrong, the closer you are to being right" - I like that!
Still not sure i know what "cancelling" is, though!
And i don't believe that DDN is "entirely uninfluenced by any corporate organisation". It's impossible, or at least too introspective!

But yeah - REALLY interesting to hear what she had to say. Thanks @shmmeee

 

[shmmeee]

"The more you accept you are wrong, the closer you are to being right" - I like that!
Still not sure i know what "cancelling" is, though!
And i don't believe that DDN is "entirely uninfluenced by any corporate organisation". It's impossible, or at least too introspective!

But yeah - REALLY interesting to hear what she had to say. Thanks @shmmeee

“Cancelling” is just the name given to the phenomenon where someone says something deemed politically incorrect or past behaviour is found and then “everyone” decides their show should be cancelled or they should lose their job or their Twitter should be banned or whatever.

Don’t know about DDN just came across the video and liked it. Maybe they are terrible I have no idea

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

“Cancelling” is just the name given to the phenomenon where someone says something deemed politically incorrect or past behaviour is found and then “everyone” decides their show should be cancelled or they should lose their job or their Twitter should be banned or whatever.

Don’t know about DDN just came across the video and liked it. Maybe they are terrible I have no idea

If that woman is indicative of their quality, then bring it ON!!!
I love listening to enlightened, intelligent young people - we hear so much that the younger generation are all useless.
Apparently the first person recorded to have said "What will become of the children" was Aristotle. Plus ca change ...

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

“Cancelling” is just the name given to the phenomenon where someone says something deemed politically incorrect or past behaviour is found and then “everyone” decides their show should be cancelled or they should lose their job or their Twitter should be banned or whatever.

Don’t know about DDN just came across the video and liked it. Maybe they are terrible I have no idea

Like Danny Baker, you mean?
I assume the people who have been found guilty of serial predatory behaviour are rightly cancelled??

 

[Nick]

I assume the people who have been found guilty of serial predatory behaviour are rightly cancelled??

Some of us are still working.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Like Danny Baker, you mean?
I assume the people who have been found guilty of serial predatory behaviour are rightly cancelled??

Well like anyone who has said anything out of place at any point in the pass has to be hounded until they're fired. Makes people feel big for doing something on the internet.

 

[Nick]

Well like anyone who has said anything out of place at any point in the pass has to be hounded until they're fired. Makes people feel big for doing something on the internet.

Start a petition.

 

[OffenhamSkyBlue]

"Being insulted or offended on someone else's behalf" really annoys me, particularly when it doesn't offend the intended recipient.
(sorry, i know this isn't the "Things that annoy you" thread)

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Start a petition.

I'll start a petition to make you start a petition. Then I'll sign it with rude names

 

[Evo1883]

Can we clarify what WOKE is these days? I know it originates from the civil rights movement in the US in the 60’s and is essentially black slang but these days it seems to be used as a put down by gammons to anyone who doesn’t agree with Katie Hopkins, doesn’t think brexit is a good idea, thinks criticism of the government means you hate England and would rather live in Italy etc etc.

People who use the word gammon, fuck my life

 

[shmmeee]

People who use the word gammon, fuck my life

Ah come on. It’s accurate and funny. They do look like gammon.

 

[Evo1883]

Ah come on. It’s accurate and funny. They do look like gammon.

I dont know many white people that don't look gammony though, unless your albino you definitely look a bit gammony, some of the people that throw the word round look like you could whack an egg on their heads and slice away
Lol

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

People who use the word gammon, fuck my life

No different to snowflake though.

And in my opinion both of them can fuck off.

 

[Evo1883]

On the Woke topic, found this an excellent perspective on “cancelling” people.

Cancel culture is extremely toxic, probably falls into extreme bullying and manipulation of others, its the absolute worst

 

[Evo1883]

No different to snowflake though.

And in my opinion both of them can fuck off.

Let's be honest, melt, wanker and tosspots still hold weight in 2020.. Let's revert back to some classics

 

[wingy]

I dont know many white people that don't look gammony though, unless your albino you definitely look a bit gammony, some of the people that throw the word round look like you could whack an egg on their heads and slice away
Lol

Boris is currently kind of looking that way .
Thinking build build build speech other day.
It's far from clear but I think gammon became a response to the woke Snowflake contagion .
Part of the growing generational divide which is only going to be propelled further via Corona.

 

[Nick]

Cancel culture is extremely toxic, probably falls into extreme bullying and manipulation of others, its the absolute worst

Yet perfectly normal to some.

 

[shmmeee]

Let's be honest, melt, wanker and tosspots still hold weight in 2020.. Let's revert back to some classics

melt is the worst.

 

[Evo1883]

melt is the worst.

My mate called me a stump the other day, I found that quite amusing