Ricoh Lease... (1 Viewer)

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I’m not clouded by anything... do I believe SISU misjudged the situation and tried to string arm a deal to get the stadium for a bargain Price, yep. And before I knew the full facts I blamed them 100% for the situation we were in when moved to Northampton. Now I know that CCC we’re trying to sell the stadium to wasps without even giving OUR football club, who that stadium
Was built for & that our club invested in, the chance to bid for it! I believe that all CCC we’re interested in was fucking over SISU & not giving a shit that the football club would suffer because of it, yep I’m afraid so... it’s with a big sore lump in my throat that I have to say the only people that have seen the light and decided to do the best thing for CCFC after this fiasco is the owners. They have backed robins & helped get us two promotions in 3 years. While CCC have attempted at every junction to keep fucking us over. No communication back on potential sites, no help brokering a peace deal for the Ricoh return etc etc

I just wish the owners had been more transparent & seen the light earlier and maybe we would now own half our stadium and not have suffered even more as fans in recent years... but the club is now trying, which is more than I can say for the council of this city.

Im afriad if anyone is blinded here it’s you, with your obvious unwavering hatred for the owners

The owners had ages to bid for that stadium. Instead they chose to try and put it out of business to get it for free.

They claimed they wanted a fairer rent deal - one was (eventually) offered.They then said no, we want F&B income too. ACL said we can't really do that without breaking the catering contract but OK. Then it was nope, we have to have the leasehold, then the freehold. At every opportunity they made the situation unworkable to string it along to cause more financial hardship, working on the assumption they would be the only potential buyers.

Then someone else came along and they weren't expecting that. Would you care about telling someone wanting to buy your business but has spent years stringing you along and causing you problems of another bid? I wouldn't. I'd get it done and out the way with. The bad blood and poor working relationship is down to the actions of SISU.

You can talk about 'price wars' etc but where in this saga has SISU ever shown any indicaton they were actually willing to part with the cash to buy the stadium? They haven't. Ever. It's been all mouth no trousers. Why do people seem to think SISU would suddenly change the habit of a lifetime by actually paying a fair price for something? They deal in the courts, not by stumping up cash.

I wish we could go the parallel universe whereby SISU had been told, because I'm more than willing to wager that in that one SISU would not have bought the stadium, would have taken further legal action to block the sale to Wasps causing further financial distress (driving the price DOWN) and made a derisory bid they had no intention of actually seeing through while making out it was a much better one. And why am I confident of that? Because it's what SISU have done throughout this, and have done in their other dealings prior to owning us.

People on this forum may not like it but the sale to Wasps occurred almost solely because of the actions of CCFC's owners over a number of years. Had they acted in good faith and not kept moving the goalposts, distressing the stadium company then the desire/need to get rid of it may not have been there and the sale wouldn't have happened at all. At the very least if they hadn't spent years of underhand tactics they would've been given the courtesy of being told about the bid.

You can whinge all you like but put in the same situation you'd have done the same. If you had a car someone wanted and they kept asking to rent/buy it only to change the deal at the last minute and then started scratching it, knifing the tyres etc to bring the price down, when you eventually sold the car due to the hassle and burden it was causing and someone else gave you an offer would you give that person the courtesy of telling them and giving them the chance to make an offer? Bollocks would you. I'd throw in some free mats or something just as a 'fuck you'.

Now you can call this petty if you like but the fact is if you treat people like shit don't be surprised when they treat you like shit in return.

 

---

[Grendel]

The owners had ages to bid for that stadium. Instead they chose to try and put it out of business to get it for free.

They claimed they wanted a fairer rent deal - one was (eventually) offered.They then said no, we want F&B income too. ACL said we can't really do that without breaking the catering contract but OK. Then it was nope, we have to have the leasehold, then the freehold. At every opportunity they made the situation unworkable to string it along to cause more financial hardship, working on the assumption they would be the only potential buyers.

Then someone else came along and they weren't expecting that. Would you care about telling someone wanting to buy your business but has spent years stringing you along and causing you problems of another bid? I wouldn't. I'd get it done and out the way with. The bad blood and poor working relationship is down to the actions of SISU.

You can talk about 'price wars' etc but where in this saga has SISU ever shown any indicaton they were actually willing to part with the cash to buy the stadium? They haven't. Ever. It's been all mouth no trousers. Why do people seem to think SISU would suddenly change the habit of a lifetime by actually paying a fair price for something? They deal in the courts, not by stumping up cash.

I wish we could go the parallel universe whereby SISU had been told, because I'm more than willing to wager that in that one SISU would not have bought the stadium, would have taken further legal action to block the sale to Wasps causing further financial distress (driving the price DOWN) and made a derisory bid they had no intention of actually seeing through while making out it was a much better one. And why am I confident of that? Because it's what SISU have done throughout this, and have done in their other dealings prior to owning us.

People on this forum may not like it but the sale to Wasps occurred almost solely because of the actions of CCFC's owners over a number of years. Had they acted in good faith and not kept moving the goalposts, distressing the stadium company then the desire/need to get rid of it may not have been there and the sale wouldn't have happened at all. At the very least if they hadn't spent years of underhand tactics they would've been given the courtesy of being told about the bid.

You can whinge all you like but put in the same situation you'd have done the same. If you had a car someone wanted and they kept asking to rent/buy it only to change the deal at the last minute and then started scratching it, knifing the tyres etc to bring the price down, when you eventually sold the car due to the hassle and burden it was causing and someone else gave you an offer would you give that person the courtesy of telling them and giving them the chance to make an offer? Bollocks would you. I'd throw in some free mats or something just as a 'fuck you'.

Now you can call this petty if you like but the fact is if you treat people like shit don't be surprised when they treat you like shit in return.

I got bored after the claim the club were offered a lower rental deal as they were not - there are so many inaccuracies here I cannot be bothered

Perhaps you'd like to explain how the rent was set as it was in the first place?

 

[Nick]

The owners had ages to bid for that stadium. Instead they chose to try and put it out of business to get it for free.

They claimed they wanted a fairer rent deal - one was (eventually) offered.They then said no, we want F&B income too. ACL said we can't really do that without breaking the catering contract but OK. Then it was nope, we have to have the leasehold, then the freehold. At every opportunity they made the situation unworkable to string it along to cause more financial hardship, working on the assumption they would be the only potential buyers.

Then someone else came along and they weren't expecting that. Would you care about telling someone wanting to buy your business but has spent years stringing you along and causing you problems of another bid? I wouldn't. I'd get it done and out the way with. The bad blood and poor working relationship is down to the actions of SISU.

You can talk about 'price wars' etc but where in this saga has SISU ever shown any indicaton they were actually willing to part with the cash to buy the stadium? They haven't. Ever. It's been all mouth no trousers. Why do people seem to think SISU would suddenly change the habit of a lifetime by actually paying a fair price for something? They deal in the courts, not by stumping up cash.

I wish we could go the parallel universe whereby SISU had been told, because I'm more than willing to wager that in that one SISU would not have bought the stadium, would have taken further legal action to block the sale to Wasps causing further financial distress (driving the price DOWN) and made a derisory bid they had no intention of actually seeing through while making out it was a much better one. And why am I confident of that? Because it's what SISU have done throughout this, and have done in their other dealings prior to owning us.

People on this forum may not like it but the sale to Wasps occurred almost solely because of the actions of CCFC's owners over a number of years. Had they acted in good faith and not kept moving the goalposts, distressing the stadium company then the desire/need to get rid of it may not have been there and the sale wouldn't have happened at all. At the very least if they hadn't spent years of underhand tactics they would've been given the courtesy of being told about the bid.

You can whinge all you like but put in the same situation you'd have done the same. If you had a car someone wanted and they kept asking to rent/buy it only to change the deal at the last minute and then started scratching it, knifing the tyres etc to bring the price down, when you eventually sold the car due to the hassle and burden it was causing and someone else gave you an offer would you give that person the courtesy of telling them and giving them the chance to make an offer? Bollocks would you. I'd throw in some free mats or something just as a 'fuck you'.

Now you can call this petty if you like but the fact is if you treat people like shit don't be surprised when they treat you like shit in return.

Are you reading the thread or have you bothered to look back at what actually happened?

They have offered to part with cash for the stadium.

When did ACL offer a better rental deal when asked? When did ACL say they can't offer f and b? They actually offered for a fair whack.

It's like you have been in a parallel universe. The stuff you are saying doesn't match up with what actually happened.

 

[Liquid Gold]

The owners had ages to bid for that stadium. Instead they chose to try and put it out of business to get it for free.

They claimed they wanted a fairer rent deal - one was (eventually) offered.They then said no, we want F&B income too. ACL said we can't really do that without breaking the catering contract but OK. Then it was nope, we have to have the leasehold, then the freehold. At every opportunity they made the situation unworkable to string it along to cause more financial hardship, working on the assumption they would be the only potential buyers.

Then someone else came along and they weren't expecting that. Would you care about telling someone wanting to buy your business but has spent years stringing you along and causing you problems of another bid? I wouldn't. I'd get it done and out the way with. The bad blood and poor working relationship is down to the actions of SISU.

You can talk about 'price wars' etc but where in this saga has SISU ever shown any indicaton they were actually willing to part with the cash to buy the stadium? They haven't. Ever. It's been all mouth no trousers. Why do people seem to think SISU would suddenly change the habit of a lifetime by actually paying a fair price for something? They deal in the courts, not by stumping up cash.

I wish we could go the parallel universe whereby SISU had been told, because I'm more than willing to wager that in that one SISU would not have bought the stadium, would have taken further legal action to block the sale to Wasps causing further financial distress (driving the price DOWN) and made a derisory bid they had no intention of actually seeing through while making out it was a much better one. And why am I confident of that? Because it's what SISU have done throughout this, and have done in their other dealings prior to owning us.

People on this forum may not like it but the sale to Wasps occurred almost solely because of the actions of CCFC's owners over a number of years. Had they acted in good faith and not kept moving the goalposts, distressing the stadium company then the desire/need to get rid of it may not have been there and the sale wouldn't have happened at all. At the very least if they hadn't spent years of underhand tactics they would've been given the courtesy of being told about the bid.

You can whinge all you like but put in the same situation you'd have done the same. If you had a car someone wanted and they kept asking to rent/buy it only to change the deal at the last minute and then started scratching it, knifing the tyres etc to bring the price down, when you eventually sold the car due to the hassle and burden it was causing and someone else gave you an offer would you give that person the courtesy of telling them and giving them the chance to make an offer? Bollocks would you. I'd throw in some free mats or something just as a 'fuck you'.

Now you can call this petty if you like but the fact is if you treat people like shit don't be surprised when they treat you like shit in return.

Do you have imaginary friends as well as an imaginary version of the past?

 

[Grendel]

Are you reading the thread or have you bothered to look back at what actually happened?

They have offered to part with cash for the stadium.

When did ACL offer a better rental deal when asked? When did ACL say they can't offer f and b? They actually offered for a fair whack.

It's like you have been in a parallel universe. The stuff you are saying doesn't match up with what actually happened.

Is he wumming or as thick as fuck?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

If I remember rightly, didn’t SISU say if the 250 year lease was up for the same price they’d have been interested? (Whether you believe them is another matter)

that statement alone shows they should have had a public bidding war

Saying they'd be interested is one thing. Actually paying is another.

The said they were interested in a cheaper rental deal. When it was offered they backed away saying they wanted FB income.

When they were offered the FB income they declined saying they wanted the leasehold. Then they wanted the freehold

We've had fuck knows how many years of talks of a new stadium, land weeks away from being purchased etc? What actual action have we seen? Absolutely none.

Words are easy. More fool you for believing they were genuine when every bit of evidence shows SISU do anything but follow through with them.

 

[Grendel]

Saying they'd be interested is one thing. Actually paying is another.

The said they were interested in a cheaper rental deal. When it was offered they backed away saying they wanted FB income.

When they were offered the FB income they declined saying they wanted the leasehold. Then they wanted the freehold

We've had fuck knows how many years of talks of a new stadium, land weeks away from being purchased etc? What actual action have we seen? Absolutely none.

Words are easy. More fool you for believing they were genuine when every bit of evidence shows SISU do anything but follow through with them.

They weren't offered a cheaper rental deal

 

[Liquid Gold]

Saying they'd be interested is one thing. Actually paying is another.

The said they were interested in a cheaper rental deal. When it was offered they backed away saying they wanted FB income.

When they were offered the FB income they declined saying they wanted the leasehold. Then they wanted the freehold

We've had fuck knows how many years of talks of a new stadium, land weeks away from being purchased etc? What actual action have we seen? Absolutely none.

Words are easy. More fool you for believing they were genuine when every bit of evidence shows SISU do anything but follow through with them.

This didn’t happen

 

[Nick]

Saying they'd be interested is one thing. Actually paying is another.

The said they were interested in a cheaper rental deal. When it was offered they backed away saying they wanted FB income.

When they were offered the FB income they declined saying they wanted the leasehold. Then they wanted the freehold

We've had fuck knows how many years of talks of a new stadium, land weeks away from being purchased etc? What actual action have we seen? Absolutely none.

Words are easy. More fool you for believing they were genuine when every bit of evidence shows SISU do anything but follow through with them.

Which rental deal? What about the offers actually made of cash?

You aren't backing anything up.

What's stranger is shmeee getting offended about this stuff being pointed out, maybe he's reading the same history book.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

The owners had ages to bid for that stadium. Instead they chose to try and put it out of business to get it for free.

They claimed they wanted a fairer rent deal - one was (eventually) offered.They then said no, we want F&B income too. ACL said we can't really do that without breaking the catering contract but OK. Then it was nope, we have to have the leasehold, then the freehold. At every opportunity they made the situation unworkable to string it along to cause more financial hardship, working on the assumption they would be the only potential buyers.

Then someone else came along and they weren't expecting that. Would you care about telling someone wanting to buy your business but has spent years stringing you along and causing you problems of another bid? I wouldn't. I'd get it done and out the way with. The bad blood and poor working relationship is down to the actions of SISU.

You can talk about 'price wars' etc but where in this saga has SISU ever shown any indicaton they were actually willing to part with the cash to buy the stadium? They haven't. Ever. It's been all mouth no trousers. Why do people seem to think SISU would suddenly change the habit of a lifetime by actually paying a fair price for something? They deal in the courts, not by stumping up cash.

I wish we could go the parallel universe whereby SISU had been told, because I'm more than willing to wager that in that one SISU would not have bought the stadium, would have taken further legal action to block the sale to Wasps causing further financial distress (driving the price DOWN) and made a derisory bid they had no intention of actually seeing through while making out it was a much better one. And why am I confident of that? Because it's what SISU have done throughout this, and have done in their other dealings prior to owning us.

People on this forum may not like it but the sale to Wasps occurred almost solely because of the actions of CCFC's owners over a number of years. Had they acted in good faith and not kept moving the goalposts, distressing the stadium company then the desire/need to get rid of it may not have been there and the sale wouldn't have happened at all. At the very least if they hadn't spent years of underhand tactics they would've been given the courtesy of being told about the bid.

You can whinge all you like but put in the same situation you'd have done the same. If you had a car someone wanted and they kept asking to rent/buy it only to change the deal at the last minute and then started scratching it, knifing the tyres etc to bring the price down, when you eventually sold the car due to the hassle and burden it was causing and someone else gave you an offer would you give that person the courtesy of telling them and giving them the chance to make an offer? Bollocks would you. I'd throw in some free mats or something just as a 'fuck you'.

Now you can call this petty if you like but the fact is if you treat people like shit don't be surprised when they treat you like shit in return.

Wasn’t there a charitable bid of £2m for the Higgs share? Something along the lines of the stadium is worthless but as joy is a good Christian lady she offered the £2m. I’ll see if I can find a link.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Surely the regeneration of that part of the City comes from people who want to live near a successful sports team in a stadium with all the social amenities, and not a huge supermarket.

I wonder what the state of other retail parks and their footfall in the local area is after these huge economies of scale moved in.

Also, the once local shops.

Because that's why Hillfields was such a well to do area when the football club were there.... Everyone swimming in cash from the two dozen days a year when people came to the area.

Fact is the retail park created thousands of jobs, giving people more money and made the area economically active outside of match days. The stadium crated far fewer in comparison. Why do you think the old factory sites ended up as retail/business parks not sports stadiums?

 

[Nick]

Wasn’t there a charitable bid of £2m for the Higgs share? Something along the lines of the stadium is worthless but as joy is a good Christian lady she offered the £2m. I’ll see if I can find a link.

Yep and the bid for half.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

The charity and Sisu signed an outline agreement for the half-share in ACL for £1.5m up front and £4m in shares in the new stadium company which it could cash in at a later date. This £4m seemed to be a sticking point but why did the deal fail? After looking at the books Sisu wanted to pay the charity closer to £2m rather than the total of £5.5m originally agreed on.

Five Things we learned from Higgs v Sisu

 

[chiefdave]

Surely not, 1 seasons rent of which they took a load from the escrow anyway.

Not just the rent that they got paid. They got 'loss of earnings' as well.

Two former Sky Blues chairmen have been forced to pay out a total of £300,000 to the Ricoh Arena’s operators after the football club stopped paying its rent.

Arena Coventry Limited has called in £150,000 each from Geoffrey Robinson MP and Mike McGinnity after the two agreed to act as guarantors for the club following the move to the Ricoh Arena in 2005.

The original agreement saw the pair agree to guarantee a combined £500,000 if the club failed to fulfil its financial obligations to ACL.

However, it is understood lawyers for the pair negotiated a reduced deal and payments of £150,000 each have been made to cover ACL’s ‘‘loss of earnings’’.

Coventry City’s owners began to withhold rent from ACL in April 2012 and eventually left the Ricoh Arena after negotiations for the club to secure a reduced deal and a share in ACL failed.

The club went into administration over the debt and its owners have been instructed to pay £590,000 to ACL by the end of this month to cover the unpaid rent as a condition of competing in the Football League.

Money from the guarantors is understood to cover ACL’s ‘loss of earnings’ rather than the agreement for unpaid rent insisted on by the Football League.

Asked how he felt about being forced to cover the money for the club, Mr McGinnity said: “I’m absolutely disgusted.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

They were about community work, conditions was just the public excuse that pwkh gave to bullshit people.

You really think wasps were in it for 50%? They even had the 250 year extension agreed ready.

It was revealed in the court transcript that he would never ever sell to ccfc / sisu and he tried to persuade the council not to. His words.

You would be better off believing Tim fisher before pwkh, he was a snake.

This is the point. When CCC/Higgs say things couldn't be done it's 'to bullshit people'. When SISU say the same thing (and have done on numerous occassions) it's taken at face value? Why are they not 'bullshitting people'?

There's bad blood and bullshit on all sides and I don't doubt for a second PKH would sell to SISU over his dead body. So ask why that toxic a situation had developed in the first place that a working relationship was untenable? Go through the actions of everyone involved and the name that predominantly crops up throwing a spanner in the works and creating problems is SISU. They aren't alone, but behind the vast majority of it. That led to this hardening of stances by the other parties towards them and this shitshow.

 

[Nick]

This is the point. When CCC/Higgs say things couldn't be done it's 'to bullshit people'. When SISU say the same thing (and have done on numerous occassions) it's taken at face value? Why are they not 'bullshitting people'?

There's bad blood and bullshit on all sides and I don't doubt for a second PKH would sell to SISU over his dead body. So ask why that toxic a situation had developed in the first place that a working relationship was untenable? Go through the actions of everyone involved and the name that predominantly crops up throwing a spanner in the works and creating problems is SISU. They aren't alone, but behind the vast majority of it. That led to this hardening of stances by the other parties towards them and this shitshow.

Who is believing lies from sisu?

Nobody is innocent at all but when you go back to before sisu, who was there causing issues and has been there all along the way?

 

[mark82]

The charity and Sisu signed an outline agreement for the half-share in ACL for £1.5m up front and £4m in shares in the new stadium company which it could cash in at a later date. This £4m seemed to be a sticking point but why did the deal fail? After looking at the books Sisu wanted to pay the charity closer to £2m rather than the total of £5.5m originally agreed on.

Five Things we learned from Higgs v Sisu

Which is funny because they eventually accepted closer to £2m from someone else.

 

[Colin Steins Smile]

The charity and Sisu signed an outline agreement for the half-share in ACL for £1.5m up front and £4m in shares in the new stadium company which it could cash in at a later date. This £4m seemed to be a sticking point but why did the deal fail? After looking at the books Sisu wanted to pay the charity closer to £2m rather than the total of £5.5m originally agreed on.

Five Things we learned from Higgs v Sisu

That would indicate that through the due diligence process that the asset wasn't worth £5.5M and given the financial performance of ACL since, then I'm surprised SISU even thought it was worth £2M....if that information is accurate.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Are you reading the thread or have you bothered to look back at what actually happened?

They have offered to part with cash for the stadium.

When did ACL offer a better rental deal when asked? When did ACL say they can't offer f and b? They actually offered for a fair whack.

It's like you have been in a parallel universe. The stuff you are saying doesn't match up with what actually happened.

OFFERED! They've said that loads of times. Never actually end up following through though. Always find a reason to pull out at the last minute before they ever actually part with the money. ACTIONS NOT WORDS!
By the same accounts Hoffman has offered just as many times to buy the club. Gets called out on here for being a bullshitter but there's little difference. I'll offer to buy the club right now. We all know full well it ain't gonna actually happen though.

Rent was £1.2m, went down to £300k, then £150k. The F&B was to do with the terms of the catering contract with Compass. As Compass were paying for the right to supply the F&B they kept all the takings and so ACL were not in a position to offer them to the club. So only potential compromise was to give the club part of the FB contract money.

 

[Nick]

OFFERED! They've said that loads of times. Never actually end up following through though. Always find a reason to pull out at the last minute before they ever actually part with the money. ACTIONS NOT WORDS!
By the same accounts Hoffman has offered just as many times to buy the club. Gets called out on here for being a bullshitter but there's little difference. I'll offer to buy the club right now. We all know full well it ain't gonna actually happen though.

Rent was £1.2m, went down to £300k, then £150k. The F&B was to do with the terms of the catering contract with Compass. As Compass were paying for the right to supply the F&B they kept all the takings and so ACL were not in a position to offer them to the club. So only potential compromise was to give the club part of the FB contract money.

Didn't you say they never wanted to give money and wanted it for free? Now it's "they didn't actually hand money over"

What was the 150k offer again? With rent? When was it?

You mean Hoffman who was working with wasps? You do realise why his bids were rejected when you look at them?

How much were the club offered the matchday income for? That's matchday only income.

 

[Liquid Gold]

OFFERED! They've said that loads of times. Never actually end up following through though. Always find a reason to pull out at the last minute before they ever actually part with the money. ACTIONS NOT WORDS!
By the same accounts Hoffman has offered just as many times to buy the club. Gets called out on here for being a bullshitter but there's little difference. I'll offer to buy the club right now. We all know full well it ain't gonna actually happen though.

Rent was £1.2m, went down to £300k, then £150k. The F&B was to do with the terms of the catering contract with Compass. As Compass were paying for the right to supply the F&B they kept all the takings and so ACL were not in a position to offer them to the club. So only potential compromise was to give the club part of the FB contract money.

Delusional.

 

[stupot07]

OFFERED! They've said that loads of times. Never actually end up following through though. Always find a reason to pull out at the last minute before they ever actually part with the money. ACTIONS NOT WORDS!
By the same accounts Hoffman has offered just as many times to buy the club. Gets called out on here for being a bullshitter but there's little difference. I'll offer to buy the club right now. We all know full well it ain't gonna actually happen though.

Rent was £1.2m, went down to £300k, then £150k. The F&B was to do with the terms of the catering contract with Compass. As Compass were paying for the right to supply the F&B they kept all the takings and so ACL were not in a position to offer them to the club. So only potential compromise was to give the club part of the FB contract money.

I'm pretty sure from the Q&As that ACLs offer for reduced rent prior to administration and Sixfields was just for 2 years before reverting back to £1.2m.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The charity and Sisu signed an outline agreement for the half-share in ACL for £1.5m up front and £4m in shares in the new stadium company which it could cash in at a later date. This £4m seemed to be a sticking point but why did the deal fail? After looking at the books Sisu wanted to pay the charity closer to £2m rather than the total of £5.5m originally agreed on.

Five Things we learned from Higgs v Sisu

Would that be showing SISU agreeing to pay a price for something and then reneging and changing it to a much lower price? My, I am shocked! How did this happen?

Oh, because it's what always happens when they're involved.

 

[Nick]

I'm pretty sure from the Q&As that ACLs offer for reduced rent was just for 2 years before reverting back to £1.2m.

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It was also to the administrator too wasn't it?

Unless he means the kcic / Hoffman publicity offers.

 

[Nick]

Would that be showing SISU agreeing to pay a price for something and then reneging and changing it to a much lower price? My, I am shocked! How did this happen?

Oh, because it's what always happens when they're involved.

A price that was closer to what it was originally sold for and clearing the debt, wasn't it?

 

[stupot07]

It was also to the administrator too wasn't it?

Unless he means the kcic / Hoffman publicity offers.

Yes I think so. It feels a bit like trying to rewrite history.

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[Nick]

Yes I think so. It feels a bit like trying to rewrite history.

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Just looked, it was too do with that rebate.

The club were paying business rates for 365 days a year so needed a rebate.

Quote:

The club has overpaid business rates for many years and, for whatever reason, ACL are off-setting this cash rebate against rent in quoting £150,000 a year.

So it wasn't actually cheaper rent, it was taking the money owed off the rent and running to the telegraph.

Once that money owed was cleared, the rent went back up.

It was a pr stunt which obviously worked. This is what happens when they drafted in a massive pr company and the trust.

 

[SkyBlueZack]

Would that be showing SISU agreeing to pay a price for something and then reneging and changing it to a much lower price? My, I am shocked! How did this happen?

Oh, because it's what always happens when they're involved.

They wanted it for free? That’s what you said. As someone has said above, they ended up selling the share for £2.77m so only 770k more than SISUs derisory offer which also wasn’t for a 250 year lease but for 100 years. I’d hazard a guess therefore that SISUs charitable offer was about right.

 

[chiefdave]

The club were paying business rates for 365 days a year so needed a rebate.

They were being charged as if they were using the stadium bowl 365 days a year. Valuations office looked into it and ruled they should only be liable for actual use such as matchdays.

Seem to recall they had been overpaying for 7 or 8 years but the council only refunded 3 meaning the council pocketed about half a million in overpayments from the club.

 

[Nick]

They were being charged as if they were using the stadium bowl 365 days a year. Valuations office looked into it and ruled they should only be liable for actual use such as matchdays.

Seem to recall they had been overpaying for 7 or 8 years but the council only refunded 3 meaning the council pocketed about half a million in overpayments from the club.

Yep, ripping the club off.

They were using the money from the refund to offset the rent and give the 150k headline for fans to be angry about.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Didn't you say they never wanted to give money and wanted it for free? Now it's "they didn't actually hand money over"

What was the 150k offer again? With rent? When was it?

You mean Hoffman who was working with wasps? You do realise why his bids were rejected when you look at them?

How much were the club offered the matchday income for? That's matchday only income.

Yes they wanted it for free. They never intended to hand over any money. The offer was there solely to string the process along. An offer is nothing until there is consideration.

£150k was during the admin process. Didn't include FB money, increased if promoted and also had conditions regarding the CVA at the time which was a big factor. But it was put on the table which seems to be the acceptable standard for a SISU offer so should be considered in the same way.

The Hoffman thing was a facetious example of how an 'offer' is treated by people on here depending on who makes it. SISU make an 'offer' and it's set in stone that they would clearly have fulfilled in despite every bit of evidence showing they wouldn't give the number of deals they've pulled out of or changed terms at the last minute. But someone else does it and it's clear bullshit and was never ever serious (which is the case with Hoffman). Fact is neither of them should be taken seriously. Until money has changed hands all the talk and negotiations in the world mean fuck all.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

They wanted it for free? That’s what you said. As someone has said above, they ended up selling the share for £2.77m so only 770k more than SISUs derisory offer which also wasn’t for a 250 year lease but for 100 years. I’d hazard a guess therefore that SISUs charitable offer was about right.

Can you prove they'd have paid that? Or would they have then reneged again with another valuation saying £2m was overpriced. They'd already done it for their original £5.5m offer. Along with numerous other negotiations regarding use of the arena.

How many times does a company have to pull out of deals at the 11th hour before you accept that their business tactic is to pull out at the 11th hour so they don't part with any money and string everyone along?

 

[Nick]

Yes they wanted it for free. They never intended to hand over any money. The offer was there solely to string the process along. An offer is nothing until there is consideration.

£150k was during the admin process. Didn't include FB money, increased if promoted and also had conditions regarding the CVA at the time which was a big factor. But it was put on the table which seems to be the acceptable standard for a SISU offer so should be considered in the same way.

The Hoffman thing was a facetious example of how an 'offer' is treated by people on here depending on who makes it. SISU make an 'offer' and it's set in stone that they would clearly have fulfilled in despite every bit of evidence showing they wouldn't give the number of deals they've pulled out of or changed terms at the last minute. But someone else does it and it's clear bullshit and was never ever serious (which is the case with Hoffman). Fact is neither of them should be taken seriously. Until money has changed hands all the talk and negotiations in the world mean fuck all.

You need to make up your mind, you are all over the shop back and forth.

There's been offers of actual money, the 2m and 2.77m.

I've explained already about the rent deal and the catch with it.

The terms were hardly changed at the last minute, it was after doing due diligence and looking at the books wasnt it? The offer was actual money and then other things beneficial to the stadium long term. (AEG for example). How much did the higgs share actually sell for?

 

[Nick]

Can you prove they'd have paid that? Or would they have then reneged again with another valuation saying £2m was overpriced. They'd already done it for their original £5.5m offer. Along with numerous other negotiations regarding use of the arena.

How many times does a company have to pull out of deals at the 11th hour before you accept that their business tactic is to pull out at the 11th hour so they don't part with any money and string everyone along?

Can you prove they'd have paid that? Or would they have then reneged again with another valuation saying £2m was overpriced. They'd already done it for their original £5.5m offer. Along with numerous other negotiations regarding use of the arena.

How many times does a company have to pull out of deals at the 11th hour before you accept that their business tactic is to pull out at the 11th hour so they don't part with any money and string everyone along?

Can you prove they wanted it for free?

Don't you think the fact that 100% was sold for the same amount as the 50% was offered tells you something? (Plus the club still needed to pay rent to keep the other half of ACL going)

In fact, I'm pretty sure it came out that the council were just humouring sisu while they were trying to sort the debt and council bailout didn't it?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

You need to make up your mind, you are all over the shop back and forth.

There's been offers of actual money, the 2m and 2.77m.

I've explained already about the rent deal and the catch with it.

The terms were hardly changed at the last minute, it was after doing due diligence and looking at the books wasnt it? The offer was actual money and then other things beneficial to the stadium long term. (AEG for example). How much did the higgs share actually sell for?

At what point are you going to understand the difference between an offer and consideration?

Difference. £2.77m was actually paid by Wasps. Contracts drawn up, agreed and paid for. Offer, acceptance and consideration all sorted in a few months. SISU - years of negotiating back and forth. Numerous agreements made and drawn up. Amount actually paid - zero. Until money changes hands an offer is nothing but words.

If a woman says she's going to shag you but everytime she's supposed to come round she either doesn't turn up or makes an excuse she can't make it but says she's definitely going to do it next time how long before you just accept she's got no intention of actually shagging you and is just stringing you along? The fact that people still believe SISU would actually pay up is almost sweet in its naivety.

And if you look at their revaluation it actually blows their claim of state aid out of the water as the amount paid for it was slightly more than their valuation, which would go towards the extended lease. Yes, the current valuation is much higher but everyone knows it's massively over-inflated.