Kneeza
Well-Known Member
They couldn't care less. They effectively play in two leagues this year. Prem and Champ!
Wasps downward spiral... (68 Viewers)
- Thread starter CCFC54321
- Start date
ccfcchris
Well-Known Member
My thoughts as well
Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
What would happen if the new financial arrangements that could be suggested from the rugby club are not accepted by the bond holders?
Does anyone know what options are open to the bond holders?
Does anyone know what options are open to the bond holders?
SBAndy
Well-Known Member
Could ask for an increase in interest to reflect the increased risk. Could call in the debt. Neither of which will happen, 95% sure of that.
pipkin73
Well-Known Member
IF i understand this right the shares are now worth 39.50, not 2000. They went as low as 24.8 and heading that way again. I don't understand this so this could be wrong WASPS FINANCE PLC WAS1 Stock | London Stock Exchange
pipkin73
Well-Known Member
What price did WxxxS sell at originally to cover the bond?
tisza
Well-Known Member
Wasn't it 100 at 6.5%,?
I think they are sold in blocks of 2000
A deal today was at 37
Ignore the Bid / Offer figures to some extent that is the deal maker creating a Market
pipkin73
Well-Known Member
after their fun at the start 100% had a max of 110.525%, since then it's gone as low as 24.8%. As i type this it's now 37% so down again. WASPS FINANCE PLC WAS1 Stock | London Stock Exchange
pipkin73
Well-Known Member
Don't know anything about how many you need to buy etc, but the figure above is it's trading price. Just below 13% from it's record low of 24.8 and it's dropping back to that level again.
So your 37% is the same as my (i no nothing about shares) share and guess what, after your comment and mine we are both at 37% lmao.
MusicDating
Euro 2016 Prediction League Champion!!
Yer, so someone has traded 10k of bonds at 37p this morning. Assuming they bought them at issue, then they've just lost £6300.
There has been another trade today at the same price
I have checked the prospectus and the minimum initial purchase was £2000 = 20 units
" the minimum subscription amount per investor is £2,000 of the Bonds in the initial distribution". which is why so many are in blocks of 2000. However they can now sell 1 bond if wished
I have checked the prospectus and the minimum initial purchase was £2000 = 20 units
" the minimum subscription amount per investor is £2,000 of the Bonds in the initial distribution". which is why so many are in blocks of 2000. However they can now sell 1 bond if wished
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WASPS FINANCE PLC WAS1 Stock | London Stock Exchange
Basically yes - except they would have received 5 years interest @ 6.5% = £3250
MusicDating
Euro 2016 Prediction League Champion!!
That is true, forgot about the interest already paid.
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
Ok so for a newbie plz explain
We want bond price to fall yes?
Who loses money? Wasps or investors in wasps?
We want bond price to fall yes?
Who loses money? Wasps or investors in wasps?
jordan210
Well-Known Member
if I understand right
Bond price falling shows little faith in Wasps. Good thing.
Investors lose money as won't recoup price paid. But would have received interest
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
The bond is essentially a loan so in theory when the bond matures (May 2022) you get back what you put in. For example you bought £5K worth of bonds when they launched in May 2015 you get £5K back in May 2022. On top of that you get interest every 6 months, the interest rate is higher than you'd get shoving the money in a bank which is the attraction for people to buy them.
People who own bonds are free to sell them, they initially traded for more than the original price so you could sell them at a profit. Then in December 2017 they dropped below the original price and have on a downward trend ever since. Couple of small recoveries but overall going in the wrong direction. The theory is the lower the price goes the less confidence the market has that Wasps will be able to make the repayment in May 2022, people are getting out while they can still get something for them.
Its the investors that lose money but the price will make it harder for Wasps to refinance. If the markets fears that they can't repay in May 2022 turn out to be correct then its Wasps who are in trouble as the bonds are secured on the Ricoh lease.
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
Ahhh ok
Do wasps have to pay back in full?
If someone bought shares for 200 quid and now they only worth 77 pounds do wasps pay 200 or 77 at the end?
Peter Billing
Well-Known Member
They pay back £200 in that scenario.
Their commitment is to repay in full £35m in May 2022, the amount raised by the bond scheme, and 6.5% (£2.275m) each year in interest payments to the bond holders until then.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
They should pay back the full price, so the 200 quid. Which of course then raises the question if you owned 200 quid worth of shares that Wasps were due to pay you £200 for in less than 2 years why would you sell them for £77 now?
You're either desperate for cash now or you don't think you'll get your £200 back and £77 now might be better than nothing in 2 years time.
Terry Gibson's perm
Well-Known Member
Skybluemichael
Well-Known Member
This was when they first issued them
Investegate |Wasps Finance PLC Announcements | Wasps Finance PLC: Launch of 6.50% Secured Bonds due 2022
Investegate |Wasps Finance PLC Announcements | Wasps Finance PLC: Launch of 6.50% Secured Bonds due 2022
Skybluemichael
Well-Known Member
I know this is an old report but didn’t know, It has now emerged that cracks have been discovered at the stadium, attributed to ‘ground settlement’
Sting in the tale for holders of Wasps 6.5% due 2022? - Retail Bond Expert
So the stadium is falling apart anyway, did they fix that?
Sting in the tale for holders of Wasps 6.5% due 2022? - Retail Bond Expert
So the stadium is falling apart anyway, did they fix that?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Don't recall any confirmation it was fixed. Do recall them saying it was routine maintenance which didn't ring true to me. Calling in structural engineers to investigate cracks in stadium walls doesn't sound routine to me.
jordan210
Well-Known Member
Dint they say was insurance work. Will need to have a look over there last account report. Sure it was mentioned in that.
covcity4life
Well-Known Member
Thank you all I get it now. Maybe wasps r so fucked they won't back!
Gynnsthetonic
Well-Known Member
Good point, can anyone explain in simple terms how this works and why are investors selling.
jordan210
Well-Known Member
Im sure Dave knows more. I think people sell due due to confidence and if they don't think they will make anything back. As I assume was goes pop or default on the bond they don't get anything.
Terry Gibson's perm
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Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
The stadium could be sold to meet the bond payment but not handed over to bond holders as an asset.