SeaSeeEffCee
Well-Known Member
The massive spike in excess deaths must be either imaginary or a complete coincidence then.
Fans allowed in? - Updated! (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter Saddlebrains
- Start date
usskyblue
Well-Known Member
Pft...you’re lucky to be talking about a second wave. If you open too early, or don’t take this shit seriously, you’ll NEVER get away from Covid-19.
It doesn’t have a fucking shelf life
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
Do you think 45000 people have died FROM covid 19? Honestly...
Not in a million years
kg82
Well-Known Member
True true!
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
Excess deaths? One of I'd guess many things
t.co
Scots cancer deaths soar as 900 patients die at home during lockdown
The statistic gives one of the clearest indications yet of the toll Covid-19 has taken on NHS services.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
your missing the point, if the death rate is the same but Covid deaths is for example 20,000 and flu deaths are down by 15,000 then yes, that would suggest there's been some mis-recording but we have, I think, in the region of 60,000 excess deaths, if it's not Covid what is it?
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
People dying at home of heart attacks, cancer, natural causes that are scared to attend a hospital because of covid? I'm guessing it won't account for all but for some definitely.
People die if they don't get treated..
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
no one said its 100 percent accurate but it's still the best indicator we have.
skybluesam66
Well-Known Member
1999/2000 there were 48000 Excess deaths, this year 60000
I dont remember the millenium celebrations being cancelled
I dont remember the millenium celebrations being cancelled
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
Personally, although my opinion matters not one jot... And il still follow the rules etc by wearing masks and socially distancing... The numbers are nowhere near 45000
usskyblue
Well-Known Member
Trump relies on bollox like this. You will have a second wave if you don’t treat this virus seriously.
Even the most established flu vaccines are only 67% effective. Imagine how less effective this one might be...with drug companies in a flailing fucking race for $$$$
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
Undoubtedly that will account for some of the excess deaths, I'm certain you're right and someone is going to have to unravel the numbers but it's still the best indicator.
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
Good chat, apologies I wasn't being rude this whole thing has been so mishandled that it's pissing us all off
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
going by the excess deaths, even knock 20 percent off for the reasons you've stated then yes, definitely.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
mate I never thought you were been rude, you always keep the debate civil, (more than me if I'm honest!)
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
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chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Would love to be able to go to games and gigs but I think I'll wait and see what the scientists say before getting too excited. Especially
after Sir Patrick Vallance's comments yesterday on how the scientific advise has been repeatedly ignored by the government.
Right as flu season is kicking in seems an odd time to remove restrictions on things like this.
If it does seem likely crowds will be allowed in October can see them pushing back the start of the season a couple of weeks from September 12th. We're going to be so far behind a normal schedule a couple more weeks won't make much difference.
after Sir Patrick Vallance's comments yesterday on how the scientific advise has been repeatedly ignored by the government.
Right as flu season is kicking in seems an odd time to remove restrictions on things like this.
If it does seem likely crowds will be allowed in October can see them pushing back the start of the season a couple of weeks from September 12th. We're going to be so far behind a normal schedule a couple more weeks won't make much difference.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
there was a bit of ambiguity in Johnsons statement regarding indoor events but I'd be surprised if gigs go ahead just yet.
If you're a virus it must be your dream to be carried into a shouting, singing, rammed sweaty mosh pit..
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Not sure much is being based on science tbh. The science seems to suggest the virus ideal conditions are cold and damp but we're opening ice rinks.
steve cooper
Well-Known Member
I don't think you can determine exactly the figure from a chart like this, it just really shows a trend across the months spanning the virus. I assume the number of published coronavirus deaths is accurately represented by the red area, but what is in question is what makes up the other excess deaths, shown in blue. They could all be coronavirus related, or all totally unrelated but due to some other undefined (to us) causes, or most likely somewhere in between.
The 5 year average line is exactly that, an average, so is subject to outlying data as is every other average.
Don't forget that the X axis is time in months, and the Y axis is numbers, so the 20000+ figure only represents the worst case between the average line and all recorded deaths.
What will be interesting is to see where we are in relation to the average at the end of the pandemic, This will give us a better idea how many people really died of the virus, but obviously it will be an idea only, due to being compared with an average death rate.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
Weirdo, your hard drive must be a state
Brylowes
Well-Known Member
because they always do
it may We’ll be 3 or 4 months to late ‘but they usuallydo something eventually
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
This was in reference to excess deaths, people dying at home because they are scared to attend hospitals... These numbers are probably massively underestimated
Almost 900 cancer patients dying at home in Scotland alone. imagine the figure for that alone in England based on population...then there are all the other people that died at home of other problems because they either couldn't or wouldn't go to hospital....
Its not unrealistic to suggest covid deaths are Inflated, its also not unrealistic to suggest that the amount of people dying from covid alone is much lower than the 45000 we see..
Apologies for quoting twice lol
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shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Point is that COVID isn’t just literally dying from the disease, you can’t separate out related deaths that wouldn’t have happened without the pandemic. That’s like not counting the people who jumped in 9/11 because technically the planes didn’t kill them.
It’s pretty solid that the mortality rate is 1%+, which is very high for such a contagious disease.
The thrust of your argument seems to be the online contrarian view that it’s all a fuss about nothing, which is utter tripe IMO and according to the actual experts. Countries don’t inflict this sort of economic damage on themselves for no reason (Brexit aside). I’d listed more to the experts and less to the likes of Brendan O’Neill and Toby Young personally.
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
My argument is based on the fact that people have had covid, recovered then died of something different several weeks later and its being recorded still as covid.
We've also had multiple cases of people dying from natural causes, heart attacks etc etc and have also had their deaths being recorded as covid... This is a travesty.. It's also a massive lie
I'm not disputing that covid can kill, I'm definitely disputing it's severity and it's mortality rate
1% high? Ebola is at over 30%
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
But you’ve got to take it as a whole. Like I say you don’t dispute terror attack deaths because someone had a heart attack from the bomb noise or was ill anyway, the event as a whole caused all those people to die who wouldn’t have otherwise. Same with the pandemic.
Also look at the States where they’ve bought into this “it ain’t so bad” nonsense and have over 100k dead.
Focusing on death certificates is just a distraction. They aren’t some solid gold proof of death cause, all deaths tend to be a mix of issues coming together. You might get hit by a car and die from drowning in the internal bleeding, should we not put down car crash as cause of death?
What matters is the headline figure of how many extra people died.
That 45,000 need breaking down over the next few months on what Cov-19 patients passed away from it and what patients passed away but Cov-19 wasn’t the contributing factor in their death. I’m shocked the NHS doesn’t have this metrics behind this in 2021. Strangely enough is the YOY death rate has gone down at this point due to patients with health issues passing on earlier in the year.
Will there be a spike? I doubt it will be anywhere near the April and may pandemic due to awareness, distancing and hygiene. The vaccine sounds like it be ready end of this year as well.
Anyway, what price city to get promoted next season?
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
I just disagree mate... Can't say much more than that but respect your opinion as always
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
To get back to the original subject while it applies to gigs not sporting events Music Venue Trust have issued a statement saying they were working with the government on how to reopen venues safely but the government have blindsided them with an announcement they knew nothing about and aren't prepared for.
Doesn't fill me with confidence in the decision making process that has decided its safe to open up stadiums.
Doesn't fill me with confidence in the decision making process that has decided its safe to open up stadiums.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
To get completely accurate data could take years. People will need to drill down in to it and you will need to offset figures for later this year and into next year.
For example if cancer patients have tragically died earlier as they havre stopped treatment then that will be taken into account by figures in future months and years.
Obviously its bleak to have to look at things like that but there simply isn't an accurate figure now and IMO excess deaths is by far the best figure to look at.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
Can you imagine if they let you in but you have to wear a mask. Would be weird singing PUSB and calling the ref a c**t through a mask.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Fair enough. As always just putting my opinion across.
Happy_Martian
Well-Known Member
This just arrived on the BBC website
"Fans in stadiums: Boris Johnson says supporters could return in England in October"
Fans in stadiums: Boris Johnson says supporters could return in England in October
"Fans in stadiums: Boris Johnson says supporters could return in England in October"
Fans in stadiums: Boris Johnson says supporters could return in England in October