New Stadium - The pessimist's view... (21 Viewers)

[SBT]

This could technically be down with different tiers and/or shutting off corner sections. Open up as many as needed depending on demand, starting with the lowest.

So with a two tier stadium
PL - whole stadium open
Championship - shut some sections of upper tier
L1 - lower tier open
L2 - lower tier less corners

So basically what we've been doing with the Ricoh for ages? Maybe we could put a Jimmy Hill flag up.

 

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[Deleted member 5849]

So basically what we've been doing with the Ricoh for ages? Maybe we could put a Jimmy Hill flag up.

Could crowd fund one and call for designs...

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

So basically what we've been doing with the Ricoh for ages? Maybe we could put a Jimmy Hill flag up.

In a way, but the tiers would make the difference. With the bowl you have to shut off whole sections front to back and so you end up with bits by the pitch that are uninhabited. With a tier you can bring everyone closer to and surrounding the pitch and the upper section being empty doesn't have as much of an effect.

 

[SBT]

In a way, but the tiers would make the difference. With the bowl you have to shut off whole sections front to back and so you end up with bits by the pitch that are uninhabited. With a tier you can bring everyone closer to and surrounding the pitch and the upper section being empty doesn't have as much of an effect.

Any examples of it being done at our kind of scale? I've seen it done (very impressively!) at big stadiums, 80,000-seater or so. Not sure how it would work at our level, unless you have very very small tiers.

 

[Nick]

A lot of sense coming from both sides of the debate on here. The desire to escape the Ricoh is well-intentioned, and the chances of us returning there on favourable terms seems pretty remote atm. With the team doing well, there's more good will for the owners' intentions than there has been in a decade. The case for a fresh start is (temporarily, at least) more compelling than it ever was, including at Highfield Road.

I'm just not convinced that trying another flatpack stadium with a hypothetical rail station, only this time in a different part of the city's outskirts, is going to obviously be better than what we could/should have with the Ricoh. Let alone a good way to spend 30 million quid. Surely as a fanbase we would know better than most that you can't just stadium-build your way into stability? What happens if we move to Warwick Uni only to plummet into L2 again? Build a fourth stadium in Binley?

It would be a bit different from the Ricoh though, wouldn't it? If we go down to League 2 then there's much more control over how to monetize the stadium if the club had full control over it.

 

[SBT]

It would be a bit different from the Ricoh though, wouldn't it? If we go down to League 2 then there's much more control over how to monetize the stadium if the club had full control over it.

Very true. The big question though - is spending £30 million+ on a new stadium the most cost-effective way to get that kind of control over our own ground? It wasn't the first time round!

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Any examples of it being done at our kind of scale? I've seen it done (very impressively!) at big stadiums, 80,000-seater or so. Not sure how it would work at our level, unless you have very very small tiers.

There is no way on earth the stadium will be two tiers all the way around. None. I'd be highly surprised if any stands were two tiered.

Look at it this way- at Highfield Road the West Stand held about 6,000 between the two tiers. Extend that around the pitch (assuming 105x68m) and thats 9,200 for each side stand and about 2,000 per corner. Total capacity 38,500- . So if we're talking an 18k capacity two tiers is not viable from either a practical or financial point of view. Its not going to happen. You'd have each tier with about 10 rows of seats max, makes no sense.

 

[Nick]

Very true. The big question though - is spending £30 million+ on a new stadium the most cost-effective way to get that kind of control over our own ground? It wasn't the first time round!

Again, completely different scenario to the Ricoh.

 

[chiefdave]

No they didn't get it for 30m. Accounts filed at co house say cost of land and buildings was 106m - mk stadium property ltd with another couple million in mk stadium Ltd for fixtures etc

Is that £106m just for the land and building required for the stadium itself or the entire complex (hotel, arena, shopping centre etc) that was built as part of the project?

 

[SBT]

Again, completely different scenario to the Ricoh.

Of course, but the parallels are there.

We're struggling with a punitive rent agreement at our current home in Coventry
We're doing well on the pitch and want a stadium that reflects a new, brighter future for the club
We want to control/maximize our stadium revenues both on matchdays and through other events

We can either build a new stadium on the outskirts of town (it will have a railway station!) Or we can try to rework what we already have. I know what Bryan Richardson would choose!

 

[Nick]

Of course, but the parallels are there.

We're struggling with a punitive rent agreement at our current home in Coventry
We're doing well on the pitch and want a stadium that reflects a new, brighter future for the club
We want to control/maximize our stadium revenues both on matchdays and through other events

We can either build a new stadium on the outskirts of town (it will have a railway station!) Or we can try to rework what we already have. I know what Bryan Richardson would choose!

We can't rework what we already have, we have absolutely fuck all.

The parallel is the council sticking their nose in....

 

[chiefdave]

Needing to match the size of the Ricoh is a bit misleading IMO as the Ricoh was never designed to be full ever week. If anyone went to one of those meetings with Richardson where he showed you the model of the new stadium he had in the HR boardroom he was very clear that the stadium capacity was for the 2 or 3 games a season where there was more demand for tickets.

I would suggest that with TV money the way it is in the Premier League selling a few thousand extra tickets for the 'big' games does't make a huge difference financially.

Think some people need to take a look at our attendance history to give themselves a reality check. The only attendance chart we've been anywhere near the top of in decades is the one for percentage of the stadium that is empty.

 

[SBT]

We can't rework what we already have, we have absolutely fuck all.

SISU disagree with you, which is why negotiations with Wasps continue. I agree it's a desperate situation - so were the last few years at Highfield Road. But I don't think we should have tried to build our way out of it in 2005, and I have my doubts about doing it again now.

 

[Paxman II]

Wow such a lot of pessimism on here as usual. For what it's worth from my point of view and I've been around a lot longer than most on here, the Ricoh size is just about right for us. It potentially could be too small for the premier league given any success. Leicester with a very similar stadium and capacity seem to do just fine. If we were back in the lower reaches we would of course have too muc capacity but you have to find common ground. CCFC though are not a club likely to linger too long in the lower divisions if at all. You can't judge on recent history and disasterous ownership.
If we were back in the pemiership and in some respects having a stellar season in the championship then getting a ticket would not be guaranteed. A club that took over 40k away fans to Wembley for a tn pot trophy and filled out the stadium to watch the likes of Crewe should tell you something about the likely support there is with some adequate success. In the championship this coming season and given we would be back at the Ricoh crowds will jump significantly. Any success and the Ricoh will be close to capacity for enticing games.
Building a stadium of less than 20k even be it in modular upgradable form would be a mistake. But like I said elsewhere such a project will not take place under SISU. Concentrate on the Ricoh for now - it's a natural home and a very good stadium.

 

[skybluegaz]

Personally speaking, I was surprised to see (particularly on Facebook) such a positive reaction to the announcement. We've had this before on at least 2 occasions, that there are plans for a new stadium but they just never get any further than the drawing board. Call me a cynic, but it just ain't gonna happen this time either.
SISU from the start have always wanted the Ricoh, I don't think anything had changed in that respect. We're too long gone with them to come up with any sort of fair deal for both CCFC and Wasps to properly share the stadium unless SISU publicly admit to and renounce all past sins, and then promise a fair way to jointly own and run the stadium for the benefit of both clubs. That would surely be the best way out of this (other than a takeover and for new owners to shake hands with Wasps' owners on a deal).

I'm not a big fan of the Ricoh, but it's there, it's in our city, it's purpose built for our football club, it's still got our name written into the stands, and to ignore it is plain stupid. As a few people have said, get a team playing good football onto the pitch week in week out and the fans will come and make noise, the whole atmosphere argument will quickly go away. Imagine if we'd played there last season, we'd have been getting crowds of 20k+ and I can't imagine we'd have been complaining about the atmosphere then.

 

[Nick]

Personally speaking, I was surprised to see (particularly on Facebook) such a positive reaction to the announcement. We've had this before on at least 2 occasions, that there are plans for a new stadium but they just never get any further than the drawing board. Call me a cynic, but it just ain't gonna happen this time either.
SISU from the start have always wanted the Ricoh, I don't think anything had changed in that respect. We're too long gone with them to come up with any sort of fair deal for both CCFC and Wasps to properly share the stadium unless SISU publicly admit to and renounce all past sins, and then promise a fair way to jointly own and run the stadium for the benefit of both clubs. That would surely be the best way out of this (other than a takeover and for new owners to shake hands with Wasps' owners on a deal).

I'm not a big fan of the Ricoh, but it's there, it's in our city, it's purpose built for our football club, it's still got our name written into the stands, and to ignore it is plain stupid. As a few people have said, get a team playing good football onto the pitch week in week out and the fans will come and make noise, the whole atmosphere argument will quickly go away. Imagine if we'd played there last season, we'd have been getting crowds of 20k+ and I can't imagine we'd have been complaining about the atmosphere then.

Are you Gary Hoffman in disguise?

Will Wasps be admitting to past sins too, or not? How much would Wasps want for half the Ricoh do you think judging by the valuations they are trying to push?

 

[play_in_skyblue_stripes]

I'm not positive or excited about it all. I always throught Highfield road it's latter day capacity was too small. I accept our crowds generally have been disappointing for a long time but its a biggish club and certainly the same size club as Leicester and Southampton and dare I say Sunderland.

So absolutely buzzing when Ricoh opened. One or two mentioned the early game against Reading . It was deafening when we saved a penalty . Someone said it was quiet that day. Its the fans who can make the atmosphere and I think we have let ourselves down there.

I am surprised some people want to be content with being a pretty minor club. Coventry has quite a big population and is planned to grow significantly and it is a special club in many ways.

Quite surprised by some peoples reactions but then again not surprised really as that are a lot on here who seems to have been swayed on many matters on this website.

On a positive note, things generally are looking up on playing side at least, just hope that is not offset by not being back at Ricoh.

 

[Nick]

I'm not positive or excited about it all. I always throught Highfield road it's latter day capacity was too small. I accept our crowds generally have been disappointing for a long time but its a biggish club and certainly the same size club as Leicester and Southampton and dare I say Sunderland.

So absolutely buzzing when Ricoh opened. One or two mentioned the early game against Reading . It was deafening when we saved a penalty . Someone said it was quiet that day. Its the fans who can make the atmosphere and I think we have let ourselves down there.

I am surprised some people want to be content with being a pretty minor club. Coventry has quite a big population and is planned to grow significantly and it is a special club in many ways.

Quite surprised by some peoples reactions but then again not surprised really as that are a lot on here who seems to have been swayed on many matters on this website.

On a positive note, things generally are looking up on playing side at least, just hope that is not offset by not being back at Ricoh.

Genuine question and not a dig. You are saying "people are content with being a minor club".

Are you of an older generation and do you get to many home games?

Again, this isn't a dig but it is just trying to see how many people about "ambition" have been to many games in the last few years.

What do you mean "swayed by many matters on this website"?

 

[chiefdave]

I am surprised some people want to be content with being a pretty minor club

Has anyone actually said this? The only comments I've seen around capacity are people agreeing with the club that you don't build a stadium for crowds you don't get. Where is this idea that a stadium that can be up to 35K if required makes us a minor club coming from?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Just a quick one from myself.

The new stadium announcement is a positive step in the right direction. However, the statement was, in effect, only a statement of intent and nothing substantive agreed as of yet.

Like most of us, I’m concerned that our exile from Coventry is set to be continued. I imagine most of us could tolerate this if there is actual progress on this project. From the announcement yesterday, when are we going to announce a site and from there, when will building commence for the stadium and so on.

I think now is a good time to really think of a way we can scrutinise the ownership, and hold them accountable to delivering this new stadium.

Does anyone have any thoughts of how we can do this? My initial thoughts involve the good work that Pete and Mark have done in talking with the club.

 

[skybluegaz]

Are you Gary Hoffman in disguise?

Will Wasps be admitting to past sins too, or not? How much would Wasps want for half the Ricoh do you think judging by the valuations they are trying to push?

Fair point. I don't really blame Wasps per se, as far as I can tell they saw an opportunity from the council to get the stadium on the cheap, it's really the council who are as much to blame as SISU. Unless I'm missing some obvious dodgy dealings on Wasps side too...?

Ultimately, there must be a deal to be had where both Wasps and CCFC would be happy with a half share. As far as I can tell Wasps can't afford to own and run the Ricoh without CCFC, but for obvious reasons they don't trust SISU because of all the litigation. If a new owner got on board with the slate wiped clean then I'm sure there would be enough trust between both sides to make something work that was to the benefit of both clubs in the long run.

 

[Nick]

Fair point. I don't really blame Wasps per se, as far as I can tell they saw an opportunity from the council to get the stadium on the cheap, it's really the council who are as much to blame as SISU. Unless I'm missing some obvious dodgy dealings on Wasps side too...?

Ultimately, there must be a deal to be had where both Wasps and CCFC would be happy with a half share. As far as I can tell Wasps can't afford to own and run the Ricoh without CCFC, but for obvious reasons they don't trust SISU because of all the litigation. If a new owner got on board with the slate wiped clean then I'm sure there would be enough trust between both sides to make something work that was to the benefit of both clubs in the long run.

Did you miss Wasps being involved in trying to force a takeover and the indemnity? What about the stuff at the Higgs where they tried to force the club into a Ricoh deal to be able to have the academy there?

 

[skybluegaz]

Did you miss Wasps being involved in trying to force a takeover and the indemnity? What about the stuff at the Higgs where they tried to force the club into a Ricoh deal to be able to have the academy there?

OK yup clearly I did, I'd forgotten about the whole Higgs thing, and I'm not sure at all with the takeover/indemnity. It's clearly an even huger sorrier mess than I thought. Perhaps we need an Arab billionaire to just buy CCFC and Wasps and get rid of all the bad eggs in one go!!

 

[mr_monkey]

OK yup clearly I did, I'd forgotten about the whole Higgs thing, and I'm not sure at all with the takeover/indemnity. It's clearly an even huger sorrier mess than I thought. Perhaps we need an Arab billionaire to just buy CCFC and Wasps and get rid of all the bad eggs in one go!!

Only if they send wasps back to London

 

[Nick]

OK yup clearly I did, I'd forgotten about the whole Higgs thing, and I'm not sure at all with the takeover/indemnity. It's clearly an even huger sorrier mess than I thought. Perhaps we need an Arab billionaire to just buy CCFC and Wasps and get rid of all the bad eggs in one go!!

Hmm, what aren't you sure about?

It is quite dangerous when people go on about Wasps being totally innocent but then show they don't really know much.

 

[ccfcchris]

Fair point. I don't really blame Wasps per se, as far as I can tell they saw an opportunity from the council to get the stadium on the cheap, it's really the council who are as much to blame as SISU. Unless I'm missing some obvious dodgy dealings on Wasps side too...?

Ultimately, there must be a deal to be had where both Wasps and CCFC would be happy with a half share. As far as I can tell Wasps can't afford to own and run the Ricoh without CCFC, but for obvious reasons they don't trust SISU because of all the litigation. If a new owner got on board with the slate wiped clean then I'm sure there would be enough trust between both sides to make something work that was to the benefit of both clubs in the long run.

SISU are going nowhere so I doubt the Ricoh will ever be shared. The Council would do their utmost to stop it.