Lord_Nampil
Well-Known Member
They probably can but then they will loose more money so can't see it happening, as the prince OSB have said they can submit a winding up order on the club which is probably more likely.
Ricoh Bid Rejected by Alan Higs charity (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter skyblu3sk
- Start date
They probably can but then they will loose more money so can't see it happening, as the prince OSB have said they can submit a winding up order on the club which is probably more likely.
Lord_Nampil
Well-Known Member
how do you join and can you do it over the net (i.e. pay pal etc)
Also has the website been updated?
Sky Blues
Active Member
Reading between the lines, it sounds like Sisu have been trying to get the ground on the cheap. I sense they failed to read up their charity law and thought they could strong arm the un-strong armable into doing a deal. They failed. The doomsday scenario just came a step closer.
torchomatic
Well-Known Member
I think you've said it there - the goal you've set is too high. In my opinion, it's not time to back the trust.
Even if you were a credible alternative - I wouldn't want you responsible for the safeguarding of the football club while it makes transition. That's not a personal jab - I would want someone highly skilled in business/sports affairs, not a team of passionate amateurs. Groups and organisations like the trust seem to 'get in the way' in these kind of circumstances. I do however love your enthusiasm and respect that.
I keep trying to help you out here... your efforts (and the trust) would be much more useful (and appreciated) if you spent the same efforts revising your a goal of finding a new buyer for the club. I for one would back you all the way and even give you time and effort. Perhaps setting some objectives and an action plan for individuals to follow for finding such a buyer.
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Be careful what you wish for...
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
The thing about ACL. Please do not get me wrong I really appreciate what they have done so far.
Now however I am a little dissapointed in them.
I get the impression that their approach now is. It is our job to agree a price it is the councils job to decide if sisu are fit and proper to be part of the Ricoh.
Now they were part of saving the day. They did this because they love the city and they were not doing it because they were out to make a profit.
Yet now it seems like they are just saying it is not our job to sell to people who care about the future of the club. It is just our job to get the right price.
I don't understand why in conjunction with the council they don't draw up terms of any sale.
Surely after saving the day and all the hard work they have done since. They should be putting on a united front with the council.
ie this is the price this is the terms and conditions.
Instead we now have a situation where sisu may come back with a price that is acceptable.
We the fans get excited (or in my case not).
Then mass pressure falls on the council to relent on their criteria and do the deal.
I really feel it is a bit of a cop out and a passing of the monkey by ACL.
They should have the future of the club at their hearts.
It should be a joint sales pitch put together by the council and ACL.
One that can then sit on the backburner for any other bidder if sisu do ever dissapear.
Now however I am a little dissapointed in them.
I get the impression that their approach now is. It is our job to agree a price it is the councils job to decide if sisu are fit and proper to be part of the Ricoh.
Now they were part of saving the day. They did this because they love the city and they were not doing it because they were out to make a profit.
Yet now it seems like they are just saying it is not our job to sell to people who care about the future of the club. It is just our job to get the right price.
I don't understand why in conjunction with the council they don't draw up terms of any sale.
Surely after saving the day and all the hard work they have done since. They should be putting on a united front with the council.
ie this is the price this is the terms and conditions.
Instead we now have a situation where sisu may come back with a price that is acceptable.
We the fans get excited (or in my case not).
Then mass pressure falls on the council to relent on their criteria and do the deal.
I really feel it is a bit of a cop out and a passing of the monkey by ACL.
They should have the future of the club at their hearts.
It should be a joint sales pitch put together by the council and ACL.
One that can then sit on the backburner for any other bidder if sisu do ever dissapear.
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Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
Sky Blues
Active Member
I wish for a billionaire to take over, pump squillions into our club and for us to win the champions league - but I doubt it'll happen. Given CCFC appears to be heading for oblivion, I think it is entirely right that the fans start organising in preparation for that day.
stevo_ccfc
New Member
A fans trust can rarely raise enough capital to buy all the shares, but they can buy a stake. Swansea only own 20% of the shares but that is a loud enough voice to protect the clubs future.
To answer the question of joining online the website has been recently reactivated, and will be updated in the coming weeks with new content. The membership forms however are available so you can join.
To answer the question of joining online the website has been recently reactivated, and will be updated in the coming weeks with new content. The membership forms however are available so you can join.
Sky Blue Kid
Well-Known Member
It's very rare that I disagree with you mate, but(As you've had to say earlier this week)....(imo) they have done the right thing.
Whoever it is that owns CCFC, don't give a crap about the football team, and obviously have no intentions of "Doing right"
by the City.
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oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
ACL arent selling anything dongonzalos. The Charity is
The Charity is not there to support the football team....... the reason they could be involved at all in the first place is because the regeneration of north coventry matched the charitable objectives they have. In that respect their work is done and they need to pass the baton on to someone who can take it much further.
They have their own criteria but also criteria imposed by the Charities Commission that have to be met - they are not so free to negotiate or work with third parties. For any private company (eg ACL) then the shareholders that are staying have the right of approval of any incoming new shareholders.
The Charity are not shirking any of their responsibility they are simply matching and meeting the correct process - something that SISU would do well to follow
The Charity is not there to support the football team....... the reason they could be involved at all in the first place is because the regeneration of north coventry matched the charitable objectives they have. In that respect their work is done and they need to pass the baton on to someone who can take it much further.
They have their own criteria but also criteria imposed by the Charities Commission that have to be met - they are not so free to negotiate or work with third parties. For any private company (eg ACL) then the shareholders that are staying have the right of approval of any incoming new shareholders.
The Charity are not shirking any of their responsibility they are simply matching and meeting the correct process - something that SISU would do well to follow
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ashbyjan
Well-Known Member
Mexico - I fully agree that a bunch of however well meaning fans running a professional football club is a recipe for further disaster but we can act as a vehicle to stave of annihilation and then put proper professionals in charge of actually running the club. We have no aspirations of running a football club, what we want is to have a football club to support. As for finding rich sugar daddy investors - nice idea but if someone like Hoffman with all his financial world contacts cannot find them then what chance have we? What is more feasible is what we are currently undertaking and that is investigating the feasibility and fit to our situation of what the Blackburn fans are doing - check it out and I would welcome your feedback. www.brsit.co.uk
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
It must be me OSB. I just don't get it. Sorry
Whichever person group charity organisation etc.. that is selling their share of the Ricoh to sisu.
Stepped in in the first place as they knew coventry needs a football club and that matches with original desires of higgs.
They may have had to do it under the guise of regeneration but I believe Coventry actually having a football club was the real driver.
Now when they sell their share that driver should still exist ie don't sell it to someone who may in the future end up leaving coventry without a football club.
They could dress it up under we need assurances about future regeneration if they want. To meet the charity commissions requirement.
I hardly think they would have a problem with the commission if they said. We are not selling unless the buyers agree to regenerate the area and invest in the football team which also then generates jobs and business fit the future if coventry.
Apologies if I am been too simplistic. But I can't get my head around this we just need to agree a price approach.
Whichever person group charity organisation etc.. that is selling their share of the Ricoh to sisu.
Stepped in in the first place as they knew coventry needs a football club and that matches with original desires of higgs.
They may have had to do it under the guise of regeneration but I believe Coventry actually having a football club was the real driver.
Now when they sell their share that driver should still exist ie don't sell it to someone who may in the future end up leaving coventry without a football club.
They could dress it up under we need assurances about future regeneration if they want. To meet the charity commissions requirement.
I hardly think they would have a problem with the commission if they said. We are not selling unless the buyers agree to regenerate the area and invest in the football team which also then generates jobs and business fit the future if coventry.
Apologies if I am been too simplistic. But I can't get my head around this we just need to agree a price approach.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Why join the trust? The Chinese are coming we are going to have millions pumped in. Someone on here said "sit back and enjoy the ride" now who was that?
sky blue john
Well-Known Member
Obviously the charity have a figure they require for other projects which will be based on having cash now. sisu have probably offered under the required value and will have tried to pay on the never never or link it to the footballing side performance.
sky blue john
Well-Known Member
Sisu tos sers trying to screw over a charitable organisation. That would be good enough for national headlines. It would be nice to know which new projects the higgs charity want to use the money for ?
For instance imagine national press getting hold of " Sisu trying to short change the homeless and disabled" i would expect others to come up with better headlines but you probably get my train of thought.
For instance imagine national press getting hold of " Sisu trying to short change the homeless and disabled" i would expect others to come up with better headlines but you probably get my train of thought.
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
That's my name! Yeah, it had a meaning all along, not that it gives me any sodding comfort. I suppose it will be fun in Football Manager managing us at the Midland Alliance level..
LeamingtonBootBoy
New Member
Your missus, when I was round your gaff last night....:wave:
Sisu have bought a cold.
In effect, when they bought the club, they acquired a name with a huge wage bill attached and no assets.!!
You couldn't make it up.
They now want to appeal to the charitable nature of Higgs and the Council to extricate them from their own naïveté.
Bless.
In effect, when they bought the club, they acquired a name with a huge wage bill attached and no assets.!!
You couldn't make it up.
They now want to appeal to the charitable nature of Higgs and the Council to extricate them from their own naïveté.
Bless.
Lord_Nampil
Well-Known Member
Sub
Well-Known Member
i hope the trust and the council hold out untill the well n truly fook SISU over a barrel like they have our club. !!!! This is the end game now and i think the council the higgs and ACL are holding all the aces and SISU are sat there with fook all trying to call out bluff. This pain will be to the cities and ccfc benifit in the long run and the more money that SISU can be starved off(i,e tickets, tops and othe purchases from the shop) will strengthen the clubs position as SISU are now desperate imho:thinking about::thinking about::thinking about:
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Its really weird and really not right.
But it actually feels good to me that SISU have not matched the asking price. However I fear they will come back with a more suitable offer. This happens in most business deals.
What worries me is that fact that I dont want them to do it. It bizzare as part of me thinks it may save the football club. Yet a bigger part of me thinks it is the worst thing that could ever happen to us!
But it actually feels good to me that SISU have not matched the asking price. However I fear they will come back with a more suitable offer. This happens in most business deals.
What worries me is that fact that I dont want them to do it. It bizzare as part of me thinks it may save the football club. Yet a bigger part of me thinks it is the worst thing that could ever happen to us!
grego_gee
New Member
Too true Dadgad!
It also strikes me as a remarkable contrast to the carefull ethics of the Higgs trust that they did so through the good offices of RR and required the surrender of all inepentantly owned shares with at least the implied promise to owe good stewardship. Without RR's football background they would have been viewed as very strange suiters for any football club. Yet now they are left holding the baby without any football background whatsoever.
And the strange thing is, they are still trying to maintain that they do not want to sell the club!
I don't suppose it could be that they are trying to use the good offices of the club to facilitate some kind of land dealings? Could it?...
imp:
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I feel strongly, that as fans, we should learn from this when SISU go, (whenever that may be and at whatever division we come to rest in). Moving forward (again, when the SISU scum have gone), support means spending money to go to the games, not season ticketing the radio.
We can blame all the owners in the world, but without the customers - there simply isn't enough money coming in to live up to our highly set aspirations. Low gates have been going on for years (since we entered division 1 in fact) we might have had 50-60k at wolves in 67 - but the following seasons reported average was something like 18k (ring a bell?)
Time for a change in mentality from all the fans I think. In Leeds for example, Saturday is a football day - they've been up and down the leagues and nothing barely changes in support, so the recovered well from several financial issues.
DazzleTommyDazzle
Well-Known Member
Where do you start to answer this?
Let's just note that the one fact you quote is nonsense - 18k average attendance in 1967/68 - I have to assume that the whole thing is a wind-up.
coundonskyblue
New Member
<p>
Late 60's early 70's our averages were high 20k's low 30k's.
Late 60's early 70's our averages were high 20k's low 30k's.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
the football club was and is not the main driver of the Charity ... its objectives are as follows
Such charitable purposes which shall benefit wholly or mainly the inhabitants of the area within 25 miles of the centre of Coventry as the trustees may select, with a preference as far as practicable to the promotion of child welfare and particularly the welfare of under privileged children (source Charity Commission)
They have done their bit, in fact more than their bit in providing a place for CCFC to exist. It was never set up to benefit or help CCFC prosper. Their involvement has been in providing the infra structure that can benefit the City. That infra structure development needs to continue and the Charity is not in a position to do that, it doesnt have the finance and is not set up to be a commercial enterprise. Quite rightly they are open to someone taking over that responsibility, but no one should doubt their commitment or that they wont do everything in their power to ensure that who ever comes in are the right people with the finance to take the facility on. You will also find that at least some of the Trustees are supporters of CCFC and have a vested interest in seeing CCFC prosper with credible owners who ensure the club is safe financially
Nonleagueherewecome
Well-Known Member
So as somebody who has been going every week up until now, what am I meant to do, Mexico? I'm not paying twice!
dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
The statement added: “CCFC/Sisu are carrying out due diligence on ACL to assure themselves as to the value of the company in which they wish to become shareholders. That process is continuing. The charity is not a part of, or aware of the progress of, talks between the city council and CCFC/Sisu as to whether the city council will be happy to enter into a partnership with CCFC/Sisu in the joint ownership of Arena Coventry Ltd.”
Read More http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/co...ews/2012/06/09/92746-31147630/?#ixzz1xIVNQ59E
This is the bit that I find annoying and creates a very complex situation.
If SISU manage to raise the funds to make ACL, Higgs whoever it is happy
Then the next hurdle, is the council and are they happy with a partnership.
ACL/HIGGS get together with the council draw up what is the minimal SISU need to do ie money wise and conditions wise then you present that to SISU. Tell them this is it or nothing.
Then SISU will know if they can do it or not. Everyone knows where they stand
The process at the moement. SISU put bids in bit by bit to ACL/Higgs who will reject them till they get one they are happy with.
Then SISU negioate with the council of whether they are an acceptable partner or not again negiotiating, whilst all the time they will do bad things to the club to try and turn the screw and get a better negiotiating position..
Package it all together and tell SISU what you want.
They can go away and decide if they can do it or not. The whole matter will be either put to bed or done in weeks.
Doing it the way you are willl take months if we are lucky with lots of bad things happening to the club over those months due to SISU trying to manipulate the negiotiating position
Read More http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/co...ews/2012/06/09/92746-31147630/?#ixzz1xIVNQ59E
This is the bit that I find annoying and creates a very complex situation.
If SISU manage to raise the funds to make ACL, Higgs whoever it is happy
Then the next hurdle, is the council and are they happy with a partnership.
ACL/HIGGS get together with the council draw up what is the minimal SISU need to do ie money wise and conditions wise then you present that to SISU. Tell them this is it or nothing.
Then SISU will know if they can do it or not. Everyone knows where they stand
The process at the moement. SISU put bids in bit by bit to ACL/Higgs who will reject them till they get one they are happy with.
Then SISU negioate with the council of whether they are an acceptable partner or not again negiotiating, whilst all the time they will do bad things to the club to try and turn the screw and get a better negiotiating position..
Package it all together and tell SISU what you want.
They can go away and decide if they can do it or not. The whole matter will be either put to bed or done in weeks.
Doing it the way you are willl take months if we are lucky with lots of bad things happening to the club over those months due to SISU trying to manipulate the negiotiating position
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oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
the council and charity are completely separate entities .... each will have their own objectives and valuations in this. The Charity does not need to tell the council how much they will sell their shares for or the terms attached.
There is and has to be a process in this. It is pointless the Council wasting any time on this if the shares owned by the charity are not available to be sold or SISU cant make an acceptable offer.
When it gets to the council it isnt about Mr Mutton saying yes or no it will be done at a full council meeting - that is the right way to do it and takes time
I would far rather they take their time and get it right than rush it through and get it wrong, leaving the Ricoh vulnerable to SISU.
Time is not an issue for either the Charity or Council ........ it is for CCFC .......... why ? because it has taken its owners over 5 years to address the issue ...... yet they expect others to work to a deal in weeks ? It is not up to ACL, The Charity or Council to ensure the financial security of of CCFC (a private company) - yes they have a vested interest in a prosperous club but they have no control in it
There is and has to be a process in this. It is pointless the Council wasting any time on this if the shares owned by the charity are not available to be sold or SISU cant make an acceptable offer.
When it gets to the council it isnt about Mr Mutton saying yes or no it will be done at a full council meeting - that is the right way to do it and takes time
I would far rather they take their time and get it right than rush it through and get it wrong, leaving the Ricoh vulnerable to SISU.
Time is not an issue for either the Charity or Council ........ it is for CCFC .......... why ? because it has taken its owners over 5 years to address the issue ...... yet they expect others to work to a deal in weeks ? It is not up to ACL, The Charity or Council to ensure the financial security of of CCFC (a private company) - yes they have a vested interest in a prosperous club but they have no control in it
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dongonzalos
Well-Known Member
Sorry OSB it is very rare that I disagree with you but read this quote from the charity itself
"The role of the Charity was to save the project from extinction as CCFC had failed at every stage to come up with the money. It was always recognised by the City Council and the Charity that the Football Club was a vital part of Coventry, but neither could provide the level of investment in the way necessary to assist in saving a poorly managed Football Club"
Now I appreciate if there was not also the fact by saving the football club you also get regeneration into the north of the city it would not have happened.
However I also feel if it was another project that was going down the pan that did not mean ensuring that Coventry had a football club then the charity may not have got involved. As the city having a football club is very important factor to any big city.
It makes your city recognisable especially if the team is in the premiership. Man City and Man utd do wonders for Manchester. Manchester has moved into the second biggest tourist location in the UK. This is been largely attributed to the fame of the two football clubs.
Not that CCFC is particuarly helping Coventry at the moment