Forum Statement on New Stadium Announcement (11 Viewers)

[mr_monkey]

You could argue it was announce4d seven years ago, so I've given them plenty of chance.

Please show me 7 years ago where they announced a public partnership with another institution, I agree that the stuff 7 years ago was bluster (same as fisher going on the radio all those times and flapping his gums)

This time it feels different and we should give the sisu of 2020 a chance... don't get be wrong I'll be at the front of the line to slag them off if this turns out to be utter shite like before

 

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[Deleted member 5849]

Please show me 7 years ago where they announced a public partnership with another institution, I agree that the stuff 7 years ago was bluster (same as fisher going on the radio all those times and flapping his gums)

This time it feels different and we should give the sisu of 2020 a chance... don't get be wrong I'll be at the front of the line to slag them off if this turns out to be utter shite like before

We had pictures last time, and they even engaged designers.

There's no reason to believe it until it moves beyond the vaguest of vague. It's up to them to persuade me after a decade of utter shite.

 

[mr_monkey]

We had pictures last time, and they even engaged designers.

There's no reason to believe it until it moves beyond the vaguest of vague. It's up to them to persuade me after a decade of utter shite.

But the difference here is the public allegiance with Warwick uni, they are no mugs and would have wanted some hardened proof before making the joint statement

It's also not been a decade of utter shite or are you forgetting the last 3 successful years just to say boo sisu?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

But the difference here is the public allegiance with Warwick uni, they are no mugs and would have wanted some hardened proof before making the joint statement

It's also not been a decade of utter shite or are you forgetting the last 3 successful years just to say boo sisu?

Why is it so hard to have balance- waiting to see what happens now is hardly a needlessly negative stance is it

 

[mark82]

Which part of the statement did you disagree with? The statement wasn’t entirely in favour of the announcement as I’m sure you read.

This is slowly building up respect and trust both ways. Not let bygones be bygones or water under the bridge but you said this what’s happening.

I think it’s perfectly legitimate to go back to Ccfc and Sisu and say what is the cost difference between 18 and 25k seats and to explain why 25k should be the plan and to expect an answer.

I fear your frustrated at the statement is more about you not having 1% of an expectation that it’s going to happen rather than the size of the capacity but I may be wrong

I don't think the club have officially announced a capacity have they. Aren't the figures being quoted just based on what Dave Boddy said to myself & Pete back in February? Things might have changed since then with promotion being confirmed. At the point those figures were quoted we looked like playoffs but we were by no means guaranteed playoffs. The whole idea of the modular design is to be able to upgrade as needed.

The best way to show we need a bigger stadium is for more fans to attend games regardless of where we play.

 

[Nick]

Why is it so hard to have balance- waiting to see what happens now is hardly a needlessly negative stance is it

I agree, people will be right to be cynical. Maybe not get all worked up about whether glory fans can get a seat just yet then

 

[Nick]

The best way to show we need a bigger stadium is for more fans to attend games regardless of where we play.

Exactly.

Yet it's "fan will turn up if we are winning or if we get big games".

That's not how it works.

 

[mark82]

We had pictures last time, and they even engaged designers.

There's no reason to believe it until it moves beyond the vaguest of vague. It's up to them to persuade me after a decade of utter shite.

This is fair enough. We've been pushing for an update, we've got an update. No-one has a time machine to see the future, and things take time.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Exactly.

Yet it's "fan will turn up if we are winning or if we get big games".

That's not how it works.

I haven't seen anyone say that we need to build a big ground so that glory fans can turn up if we get big games, I'd also say that very few have voiced contempt for 'glory fans' more than I have in the past. However its a very simple fact that winning on a consistent basis attracts bigger crowds, I'm surprised that this is so difficult to grasp.

If the owners are dead set on making us at minimum an established Championship club, why are they only planning on having 15,000 seats available, thats the point.

As for why I get wound up- yep I have no defence on that accusation, I'm a full-on stadium nerd. I don't want the biggest, and I know it won't be the best- but I do want something to be proud of for us and my big fear is that we'll get something cheap, small & nasty which we're then stuck with forever. I will without doubt bang on about vomitories, rakes & capacities if this plan does go ahead. You can keep the tactical stuff about 4-3-3 & soap opera transfer rumours, I'm all about the kits & stadiums from this point

 

[mr_monkey]

Why is it so hard to have balance- waiting to see what happens now is hardly a needlessly negative stance is it

But saying that they don't believe it is happening is surely a negative stance?

 

[mr_monkey]

I haven't seen anyone say that we need to build a big ground so that glory fans can turn up if we get big games, I'd also say that very few have voiced contempt for 'glory fans' more than I have in the past. However its a very simple fact that winning on a consistent basis attracts bigger crowds, I'm surprised that this is so difficult to grasp.

If the owners are dead set on making us at minimum an established Championship club, why are they only planning on having 15,000 seats available, thats the point.

As for why I get wound up- yep I have no defence on that accusation, I'm a full-on stadium nerd. I don't want the biggest, and I know it won't be the best- but I do want something to be proud of for us and my big fear is that we'll get something cheap, small & nasty which we're then stuck with forever. I will without doubt bang on about vomitories, rakes & capacities if this plan does go ahead. You can keep the tactical stuff about 4-3-3 & soap opera transfer rumours, I'm all about the kits & stadiums from this point

But again you are forgetting what they said in the statement yesterday, it's modular so can be made bigger over time so we won't be stuck with it being "small" for ever if it is necessary to make it bigger

 

[Ring Of Steel]

But saying that they don't believe it is happening is surely a negative stance?

Its negative is somehow it affects the likelihood of it happening. Sitting in the ground getting on the players' backs- thats negativity. Posting on a messageboard about something where the posts are hugely unlikely to influence anything or anyone- I don't see how thats negative.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

But again you are forgetting what they said in the statement yesterday, it's modular so can be made bigger over time so we won't be stuck with it being "small" for ever if it is necessary to make it bigger

On that note I'm afraid I have to put myself in the "I will believe that when I see it" camp.

15,000 home seats is so small that if SISU achieve what their aim is, ie to get as high as possible (lets say that constitutes regularly mounting a decent run to try and make a playoff place) over the next 5 yrs, that would be too small even before it opens. Whats the point, why not make it a bit more realistic in the first place? And no, once again I am not stating that I want some huge arena with 50,000 seats.

 

[Nick]

Its negative is somehow it affects the likelihood of it happening. Sitting in the ground getting on the players' backs- thats negativity. Posting on a messageboard about something which is highly unlikely to influence anything or anyone- I don't see how thats negative.

OK so you are being negative at trying to get a higher capacity

Best way to do it? Fill the games out every week, regardless of the "they will if the team are doing well".

 

[shmmeee]

CITY TILL I DIE BUT ONLY IF WE ARE WINNING EVERY WEEK.

What happens if we got to the Premier League but we ended up in a relegation scrap but didn't win many games?

Then attendances will drop. This isn’t a moral judgement, it’s basic business sense. People don’t spent money on entertainment that isn’t entertaining.

 

[Frostie]

On that note I'm afraid I have to put myself in the "I will believe that when I see it" camp.

15,000 home seats is so small that if SISU achieve what their aim is, ie to get as high as possible (lets say that constitutes regularly mounting a decent run to try and make a playoff place) over the next 5 yrs, that would be too small even before it opens. Whats the point, why not make it a bit more realistic in the first place? And no, once again I am not stating that I want some huge arena with 50,000 seats.

As Mark said, the 18-20k line is from back in February when we didn't know what league we'd be in.
This stadium is realistically 5 years away at least. If we prove in that time the support is there to suggest that proposed capacity isn't enough it can be increased before opening.

It's a good thing to be able to even have this debate given where we've been

 

[mark82]

On that note I'm afraid I have to put myself in the "I will believe that when I see it" camp.

15,000 home seats is so small that if SISU achieve what their aim is, ie to get as high as possible (lets say that constitutes regularly mounting a decent run to try and make a playoff place) over the next 5 yrs, that would be too small even before it opens. Whats the point, why not make it a bit more realistic in the first place? And no, once again I am not stating that I want some huge arena with 50,000 seats.

I don't think we'd give a quarter of the ground to away fans. What was our average attendance when we were last in the Championship?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

I'll re-post my own comment as you've clearly missed it.

Yes but to be fair you also have people on here saying that the Ricoh will always be too big, yet now all of a sudden its a good thing that we could go up to 35,000, which is 3,000 bigger than the Ricoh. Not sure why they don't just start with more sense and take the immediate pressure off to build anything- 24k or so would do for the Championship.

 

[mark82]

Then attendances will drop. This isn’t a moral judgement, it’s basic business sense. People don’t spent money on entertainment that isn’t entertaining.

Not sure it would in the Premier League as fans would come out to see the big teams.

 

[Nick]

Yes but to be fair you also have people on here saying that the Ricoh will always be too big, yet now all of a sudden its a good thing that we could go up to 35,000, which is 3,000 bigger than the Ricoh. Not sure why they don't just start with more sense and take the immediate pressure off to build anything- 24k or so would do for the Championship.

That's the difference.

"Could" go up to 35,000.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

As Mark said, the 18-20k line is from back in February when we didn't know what league we'd be in.
This stadium is realistically 5 years away at least. If we prove in that time the support is there to suggest that proposed capacity isn't enough it can be increased before opening.

It's a good thing to be able to even have this debate given where we've been

Oh yeah, I agree there

 

[mark82]

Yes but to be fair you also have people on here saying that the Ricoh will always be too big, yet now all of a sudden its a good thing that we could go up to 35,000, which is 3,000 bigger than the Ricoh. Not sure why they don't just start with more sense and take the immediate pressure off to build anything- 24k or so would do for the Championship.

24k is where I think we should be aiming. Need to make sure it happens by turning up to games.

 

[Frostie]

I don't think we'd give a quarter of the ground to away fans. What was our average attendance when we were last in the Championship?

15k in the relegation season.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

24k is where I think we should be aiming. Need to make sure it happens by turning up to games.

If we're at the Ricoh I would think 15k is easy, St Andrews who knows.

 

[mark82]

As Mark said, the 18-20k line is from back in February when we didn't know what league we'd be in.
This stadium is realistically 5 years away at least. If we prove in that time the support is there to suggest that proposed capacity isn't enough it can be increased before opening.

It's a good thing to be able to even have this debate given where we've been

Would be much easier to show it if we are at the Ricoh. Fingers crossed they can do something there.

 

[mark82]

15k in the relegation season.

If we're at the Ricoh I would think 15k is easy, St Andrews who knows.

Maybe 20k isn't far off where we need to be then if it's easily expandable.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Would be much easier to show it if we are at the Ricoh. Fingers crossed they can do something there.

That is the acid test, no getting around it. Back at the Ricoh and getting, say, over 20k- argument over- likewise if we only pull in 12-13k its argument over. St Andrews though makes it impossible to gauge anything really.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Maybe 20k isn't far off where we need to be then if it's easily expandable.

Don't underestimate the "easiness", modular is something in the region of £2k per m2. Adding 5,000 seats would be (bag of a fag packet) about £4million. The attraction is ease, speed, environment & lower construction cost as you slot the bits in, no need for loads of people on site. Its not cheap- the benefit is that you can sell those seats a year before you could with 'traditional' construction.

So to finish up, why not pitch it at a much more realistic 24,000 and then not be constantly talking about expansion, because as long as we're in the Championship I'd say thats enough. I'm off to the gym, totally lost track of all this

 

[TomRad85]

Don't underestimate the "easiness", modular is something in the region of £2k per m2. Adding 5,000 seats would be (bag of a fag packet) about £4million. The attraction is ease, speed, environment & lower construction cost as you slot the bits in, no need for loads of people on site. Its not cheap- the benefit is that you can sell those seats a year before you could with 'traditional' construction.

So to finish up, why not pitch it at a much more realistic 24,000 and then not be constantly talking about expansion, because as long as we're in the Championship I'd say thats enough. I'm off to the gym, totally lost track of all this

Agreed 24/25k is perfect.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

So you'd screw over fans and leave them outside just to create a "better atmosphere" and "demand" by having people crammed in like sardines (great for spreading germs, btw)? That's definitely not in the supporters interests. Cos then you can really rip them off with ticket prices, too.

I'm sure this is SISU's reasoning too. It won't be because it's cheaper for it to be small at all!

Come on man, 48th-52nd biggest ground in the league? How any City fan can be happy with that baffles me. If we were aiming to be a top L1 club with the odd season in the Champ, then it would be....oh.

I was pointing out that's how economics is supposed to work. Personally I'd prefer a bit of spare capacity.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I think that stat actually proves the opposite.

But it also shows that for 24 years out of the last 30 we haven't gone above 20k avg.

 

[mr_monkey]

On that note I'm afraid I have to put myself in the "I will believe that when I see it" camp.

15,000 home seats is so small that if SISU achieve what their aim is, ie to get as high as possible (lets say that constitutes regularly mounting a decent run to try and make a playoff place) over the next 5 yrs, that would be too small even before it opens. Whats the point, why not make it a bit more realistic in the first place? And no, once again I am not stating that I want some huge arena with 50,000 seats.

And again I'll say give the new sisu a bit of credit if in 3 years time we are challenging for the champ playoffs (I bloody hope we are) then of course they will look to up the capacity as by design that's why they have gone for the modular build as it's relatively simple to do, but they are being sensible in their approach to it and airing on the side of caution which personally I love, why waste a load of money on a stadium that could end up being too big for us when we move in... Does that ring any bells

 

[shmmeee]

Not sure it would in the Premier League as fans would come out to see the big teams.

If we were getting tonked every week it’d drop. We’d still sell out the big clubs. It would be like it was at HR. Half full and silent vs QPR, packed to the rafters for Man Utd (adjust for today’s Prem)

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Exactly.

Yet it's "fan will turn up if we are winning or if we get big games".

That's not how it works.

Well it is. Clubs that win more often and can do so regularly over a half decent time period get higher attendances. If you're playing a big club with big name players more people will want to go and see it.

When we've had small runs of good results in the past after a few games the crowd creeps up a bit but it rarely lasts more than a half dozen or so games, so doesn't snowball. Do you reckon Man U would've need a 70k+ stadium if they'd not been winning so much in the Ferguson era?

There were huge queues for Chelsea tickets that you're not going to get for a game against,say, Rochdale.

There are some places that manage to maintain half decent crowds when their in the doldrums, such as Ipswich and Norwich but they're hardly the most interesting of places with tons to do instead. But even they see fluctuations depending on if they're on the up or down.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Well it is. Clubs that win more often and can do so regularly over a half decent time period get higher attendances. If you're playing a big club with big name players more people will want to go and see it.

When we've had small runs of good results in the past after a few games the crowd creeps up a bit but it rarely lasts more than a half dozen or so games, so doesn't snowball. Do you reckon Man U would've need a 70k+ stadium if they'd not been winning so much in the Ferguson era?

There were huge queues for Chelsea tickets that you're not going to get for a game against,say, Rochdale.

There are some places that manage to maintain half decent crowds when their in the doldrums, such as Ipswich and Norwich but they're hardly the most interesting of places with tons to do instead. But even they see fluctuations depending on if they're on the up or down.

Then that idea supports a stadium for our fan base. If you want to go and watch us play the Chelsea’s... then go and watch us against Rochdale. It helps maintain the average