Shamima Begum Not Allowed Back. (13 Viewers)

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SkyBlueDom26

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
Dangerous road. “Terrorist” might seem well defined to you with modern Islamic terror, but it’s not. It’s basically “anyone the government doesn’t like”. Could be views about the environment or white nationalism or whatever you feel strongly enough about to attempt to disrupt normal every day working for.

Big statement to say anyone who feels strongly about something to that extent should be automatically stateless.
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What so you’re happy with people who have joined isis to come back here then?
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
SkyBlueDom26 said:
What so you’re happy with people who have joined isis to come back here then?
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Honestly? Yeah. We’re big boys and have a legal and prison system I trust. Why not?

Should anyone who has joined XR be shot into the sea?

Also, why should other countries pick up our shit?
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
SkyBlueDom26 said:
other countries? Mate are you thick she left here to go there
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Left here. So she’s ours then. Our failure to spot her being radicalised and stop her leaving. So who should have her? Bangladesh? Are their prisons more secure? Their justice system better?

Or is this just whiny baby Brexit Britain shitting itself and crying until a sensible country comes along and makes it all better?

Fuck off. She’s ours. We can handle her. She’s not fucking Magneto.
 
Ian1779

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Shamima or none of the others that fucked off to join isis should be allowed back anywhere near this country to appeal anything, the system is broken and an embarrassment
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If only we knew had been in charge to oversee this shambles for the last 10 years.
 
Ian1779

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
SkyBlueDom26 said:
other countries? Mate are you thick she left here to go there
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Isis isn’t a country - and their ‘state’ is being driven out of the country they have occupied.
So lets say you are right - which country is now responsible for her?
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
That's not an argument.

The fact we're even having one is worrying though.
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OK, I'm a left winger and I am no more or less bothered about Shamima Begum as a victim of grooming as I am about those girls in Rochdale, Rotherham etc etc. I think your lazy tropes about the 'left' meaning anti-white belie your intelligence.

If you can't see the value in letting our courts decide what to do with her, I'd suggest you fuck off to North Korea.
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
I don’t get it. If all these right wingers want a country without democracy and rule of law and that isn’t responsible on an international stage, why don’t they fuck off and find one?

And they talk about the left hating Britain.
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who is it who's going to make these spur of the moment calls with no regard for our laws? Is it Johnson,, or Cummings, who is it who acts dictator?
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
SkyBlueDom26 said:
Mate people that chose to go and join a terrorist organisation should be automatically classed as stateless, she chose to do them things so for her to now be able to try and come back is a fucking insult
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But who defines a terrorist organisation? There are plenty of states out there that describe political opponents and groups as terrorists and detain/imprison them (usually around election times surprisingly). If Corbyn was abroad you could have people claiming he's part of a terrorist group due to some connections in his past and refuse him back in. It's far too open to abuse to just say "they can't come back" willy-nilly without due process.

It's crap that such a law allows her back, but the same law will have also helped people in the past that deserved it. Just this case is likely to fire up the anti-immigration/racist brigade and thus sell papers/get clicks.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
These kind of cases are a muddle. Why Dave keeps bringing up an act which can’t be used in this case and never Really has - and is as much against civil liberty than removing citizenship - I have no idea

People can’t be stateless. The issue is it’s virtually impossible to put a criminal case together

Should she be allowed to return - yes

Should she receive uk support to enable a return - no

Should she be arrested on return yes

If not tried should she be given protection - no and her whereabouts should be available to the general public

The choice is then hers
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
These kind of cases are a muddle. Why Dave keeps bringing up an act which can’t be used in this case and never Really has - and is as much against civil liberty than removing citizenship - I have no idea

People can’t be stateless. The issue is it’s virtually impossible to put a criminal case together

Should she be allowed to return - yes

Should she receive uk support to enable a return - no

Should she be arrested on return yes

If not tried should she be given protection - no and her whereabouts should be available to the general public

The choice is then hers
Click to expand...

That's two things I'm fundamentally in agreement with you on today.

I'm scared...
 
Liquid Gold

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
If you can sit through that Iraq documentary on iPlayer and still say we're not in a mess wholly of our own causing then I really don't understand how your mind works.
 
Ring Of Steel

Ring Of Steel

Well-Known Member
Liquid Gold said:
If you can sit through that Iraq documentary on iPlayer and still say we're not in a mess wholly of our own causing then I really don't understand how your mind works.
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You are right. All that’s left now is “we got our sovereignty back” for people to cling to. It feels eerily like this is the end of the U.K. as we knew it tbh
 
eastwoodsdustman

eastwoodsdustman

Well-Known Member
Maybe they Should send her to live at Blair towers and let him look after her. He made plenty of money out of the shitstorm he caused.
The issue isn’t about the law being upheld, its people’s lack of confidence in the sentencing.
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
These kind of cases are a muddle. Why Dave keeps bringing up an act which can’t be used in this case and never Really has - and is as much against civil liberty than removing citizenship - I have no idea

People can’t be stateless. The issue is it’s virtually impossible to put a criminal case together

Should she be allowed to return - yes

Should she receive uk support to enable a return - no

Should she be arrested on return yes

If not tried should she be given protection - no and her whereabouts should be available to the general public

The choice is then hers
Click to expand...
Most of that makes sense apart from the bit about her whereabouts being made available to the general public, assume you just mean she retains her birth identity?
 
Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
Deleted member 5849 said:
You're getting that reaction for being a moron with an agenda
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Ok, here is my opinion:

ISIS is bad
ISIS terrorists have no place in western society
Islamic grooming gangs are bad
Islamic grooming gangs have no place in western society*

*(or any society for that matter)


So why is it that victims of Islamic grooming gangs are constantly abused, and why is it that certain authorities and the left love to try and cover it up or deflect? These girls have been gang raped, bullied, tortured, in some cases murdered, and then told their lives basically mean nothing. Tell me I'm wrong on that, because there is plenty of evidence to prove that is the case. Even though so many on here deny it.

Now, Shamima Begum. She left the UK to go and be a ISIS bride, where her 'husband' murdered people. In fact, I could post videos right now of Yazidi girls in cages being burned alive by her husband. Depending on what you believe, she had some involvement in that and also took part in some other killings too. This is a girl who has no apologies about joining this organisation and says that the killings were justified.

The left find it uncomfortable to cover the first paragraph, but on the second love to whip up a load of bullshit about how due to certain laws she must be allowed back. 'Islamic State isn't a country so she has to be allowed back' is my personal favourite.

I could be a little bit more forgiving if those certain people (they can be found everywhere, not just on SBT) followed it up with saying how much of a monster she was or that they hope she would burn for all eternity, but largely they don't. There is certainly a large undercurrent which links those people with the ones that actively say she should be allowed back to live a normal life. The only difference is that those people are actually stupid enough to openly say it.

As is so often on here, a debate cannot be had, so I'm not really interested in spending a lifetime arguing on this thread. It's pretty obvious the angle that some people come from and it is pretty obvious if what I was saying had no truth in whatsoever that it would largely be ignored. Certain people have been called out and they don't like it.
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Ok, here is my opinion:

ISIS is bad
ISIS terrorists have no place in western society
Islamic grooming gangs are bad
Islamic grooming gangs have no place in western society*

*(or any society for that matter)


So why is it that victims of Islamic grooming gangs are constantly abused, and why is it that certain authorities and the left love to try and cover it up or deflect? These girls have been gang raped, bullied, tortured, in some cases murdered, and then told their lives basically mean nothing. Tell me I'm wrong on that, because there is plenty of evidence to prove that is the case. Even though so many on here deny it.

Now, Shamima Begum. She left the UK to go and be a ISIS bride, where her 'husband' murdered people. In fact, I could post videos right now of Yazidi girls in cages being burned alive by her husband. Depending on what you believe, she had some involvement in that and also took part in some other killings too. This is a girl who has no apologies about joining this organisation and says that the killings were justified.

The left find it uncomfortable to cover the first paragraph, but on the second love to whip up a load of bullshit about how due to certain laws she must be allowed back. 'Islamic State isn't a country so she has to be allowed back' is my personal favourite.

I could be a little bit more forgiving if those certain people (they can be found everywhere, not just on SBT) followed it up with saying how much of a monster she was or that they hope she would burn for all eternity, but largely they don't. There is certainly a large undercurrent which links those people with the ones that actively say she should be allowed back to live a normal life. The only difference is that those people are actually stupid enough to openly say it.

As is so often on here, a debate cannot be had, so I'm not really interested in spending a lifetime arguing on this thread. It's pretty obvious the angle that some people come from and it is pretty obvious if what I was saying had no truth in whatsoever that it would largely be ignored. Certain people have been called out and they don't like it.
Click to expand...
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Ok, here is my opinion:

ISIS is bad
ISIS terrorists have no place in western society
Islamic grooming gangs are bad
Islamic grooming gangs have no place in western society*

*(or any society for that matter)
Click to expand...

I can agree with all of those things and still believe we should not leave her stateless if it breaks the law to do so.
I also agree with all of those things and still be convinced that you're a racist.
Grendels opinion on this is similar to mine and others, do you think he's from the left or just that he understands how a democratic country needs to function?
 
Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
I can agree with all of those things and still believe we should not leave her stateless if it breaks the law to do so.
I also agree with all of those things and still be convinced that you're a racist.
Grendels opinion on this is similar to mine and others, do you think he's from the left or just that he understands how a democratic country needs to function?
Click to expand...

Ok, so you don't like what I say so therefore I'm a racist? Please point out why you think I'm a racist and present your evidence forward.

That's an incredible accusation and one of a man that knows his argument is beat.
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Ok, so you don't like what I say so therefore I'm a racist? Please point out why you think I'm a racist and present your evidence forward.

That's an incredible accusation and one of a man that knows his argument is beat.
Click to expand...

Dom has expressed the same opinion as you on this thread, i haven't called him racist.
Like I say, long time suspicions but it's seeped out.
And how can I have lost the argument, I want the country to stick to the law, you want them to make it up as they go along, it's a matter of opinion.
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Ok, here is my opinion:

ISIS is bad
ISIS terrorists have no place in western society
Islamic grooming gangs are bad
Islamic grooming gangs have no place in western society*

*(or any society for that matter)


So why is it that victims of Islamic grooming gangs are constantly abused, and why is it that certain authorities and the left love to try and cover it up or deflect? These girls have been gang raped, bullied, tortured, in some cases murdered, and then told their lives basically mean nothing. Tell me I'm wrong on that, because there is plenty of evidence to prove that is the case. Even though so many on here deny it.

Now, Shamima Begum. She left the UK to go and be a ISIS bride, where her 'husband' murdered people. In fact, I could post videos right now of Yazidi girls in cages being burned alive by her husband. Depending on what you believe, she had some involvement in that and also took part in some other killings too. This is a girl who has no apologies about joining this organisation and says that the killings were justified.

The left find it uncomfortable to cover the first paragraph, but on the second love to whip up a load of bullshit about how due to certain laws she must be allowed back. 'Islamic State isn't a country so she has to be allowed back' is my personal favourite.

I could be a little bit more forgiving if those certain people (they can be found everywhere, not just on SBT) followed it up with saying how much of a monster she was or that they hope she would burn for all eternity, but largely they don't. There is certainly a large undercurrent which links those people with the ones that actively say she should be allowed back to live a normal life. The only difference is that those people are actually stupid enough to openly say it.

As is so often on here, a debate cannot be had, so I'm not really interested in spending a lifetime arguing on this thread. It's pretty obvious the angle that some people come from and it is pretty obvious if what I was saying had no truth in whatsoever that it would largely be ignored. Certain people have been called out and they don't like it.
Click to expand...
Just so you know the first grooming gang that was brought down was in Rotherham, arguably this also blew open and exposed the whole culture of grooming gangs amongst sections of Muslim men. This happened because of the tireless work of lefty labour MP and member of Corbyns shadow cabinet, Sarah Champion. The Tories were in government at the time and had been for some years. If it wasn’t for the lefties who you seem intent on blaming for this it may well still be happening under the righties watch.

I suggest you go and educate yourself.
 
Ian1779

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Ok, here is my opinion:

ISIS is bad
ISIS terrorists have no place in western society
Islamic grooming gangs are bad
Islamic grooming gangs have no place in western society*

*(or any society for that matter)


So why is it that victims of Islamic grooming gangs are constantly abused, and why is it that certain authorities and the left love to try and cover it up or deflect? These girls have been gang raped, bullied, tortured, in some cases murdered, and then told their lives basically mean nothing. Tell me I'm wrong on that, because there is plenty of evidence to prove that is the case. Even though so many on here deny it.

Now, Shamima Begum. She left the UK to go and be a ISIS bride, where her 'husband' murdered people. In fact, I could post videos right now of Yazidi girls in cages being burned alive by her husband. Depending on what you believe, she had some involvement in that and also took part in some other killings too. This is a girl who has no apologies about joining this organisation and says that the killings were justified.

The left find it uncomfortable to cover the first paragraph, but on the second love to whip up a load of bullshit about how due to certain laws she must be allowed back. 'Islamic State isn't a country so she has to be allowed back' is my personal favourite.

I could be a little bit more forgiving if those certain people (they can be found everywhere, not just on SBT) followed it up with saying how much of a monster she was or that they hope she would burn for all eternity, but largely they don't. There is certainly a large undercurrent which links those people with the ones that actively say she should be allowed back to live a normal life. The only difference is that those people are actually stupid enough to openly say it.

As is so often on here, a debate cannot be had, so I'm not really interested in spending a lifetime arguing on this thread. It's pretty obvious the angle that some people come from and it is pretty obvious if what I was saying had no truth in whatsoever that it would largely be ignored. Certain people have been called out and they don't like it.
Click to expand...
You won’t find a ‘leftie’ on here that disagrees with your opening statements about ISIS or any kind of grooming gangs.
But your next paragraph is just another lazy trope. Am I right to assume to you are referring to the Muslim grooming gangs in the north of England over the last 2 decades? If so it comes down to their complete ineptness in their roles to protect and safeguard rather than their political affiliations in my opinion. The people in charge should never have been near positions of responsibility as they were woefully incapable. Yes they were Labour councils but they are stain on all people and they should have been charged with failing to protect young and vulnerable people. And before you argue back I’m making excuses for lefties, I would also say that the Tory government in the 80’s hid systemic abuse in government and throughout important institutions like the BBC. That doesn’t make right-leaning people paedophile enablers.

As for your second paragraph on Shamima Begum I generally am of the opinion that if a person chooses to travel to join a terrorist organisation they should revoke all rights to citizenship of this country. I know the law doesn’t work like this however. I am also of the opinion that at 15 I don’t necessarily believe ‘any child’ is adult enough to make a decision like this in sound judgement - she had been radicalised, but on the other hand she has shown little or no remorse from what I’ve seen - so I don’t think this can be used as some kind of mitigation, and in this case my belief isn’t valid.

Whatever happens next - she should spend time in prison and then if she was released in the future then heavily monitored for life with the necessary restrictions to stop her doing the same to other people. I don’t know how the law is set up to deal with someone if they were to offend again, but I reckon it’s inept too.
 
Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
Dom has expressed the same opinion as you on this thread, i haven't called him racist.
Like I say, long time suspicions but it's seeped out.
And how can I have lost the argument, I want the country to stick to the law, you want them to make it up as they go along, it's a matter of opinion.
Click to expand...

So because you think he is easy to argue against you don't need to put the non-comeback accusation of 'racist' forward?

You have had long term suspicions that I'm racist, and now you think I am? I don't believe that for a minute. You just have nothing to say.
 
Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
Just so you know the first grooming gang that was brought down was in Rotherham, arguably this also blew open and exposed the whole culture of grooming gangs amongst sections of Muslim men. This happened because of the tireless work of lefty labour MP and member of Corbyns shadow cabinet, Sarah Champion. The Tories were in government at the time and had been for some years. If it wasn’t for the lefties who you seem intent on blaming for this it may well still be happening under the righties watch.

I suggest you go and educate yourself.
Click to expand...

So you are denying the left have ever tried to cover it up? Just because on one occasion some people on the left might have done the right thing?

I suggest you stop telling people to educate themselves and have a bit of self-awareness.
 
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