Forum Statement on New Stadium Announcement (16 Viewers)

[Skyblueweeman]

because it is

It's not though, is it?

Last season (as we can't count this season for obvious reasons), exactly half of the Championship teams averaged lower than 20k attendance.

Given our attendance history and everything that's happened over the last 15 years with a largely apathetic fan base, 18-20k is pitched spot on.

The two Wembley games are not indicative of what could get on a weekly basis (not that I'm saying you said that)...they're were likely classed as once in a lifetime games...albeit we've had two in 3 years.

 

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[Ring Of Steel]

It's not though, is it?

Last season (as we can't count this season for obvious reasons), exactly half of the Championship teams averaged lower than 20k attendance.

Given our attendance history and everything that's happened over the last 15 years with a largely apathetic fan base, 18-20k is pitched spot on.

The two Wembley games are not indicative of what could get on a weekly basis (not that I'm saying you said that)...they're were likely classed as once in a lifetime games...albeit we've had two in 3 years.

It’s too small. 18k means 15k home seats after away fans, take out the JSBs/ family area/ VIP/ corporate bits/ press etc and you’ve got probably about 12,000 general sale home tickets.

There seems to be a mindset of “if you haven’t gone to games recently then fuck you, you can’t be in our special club- no outsiders allowed”. And I’m someone who clocks up about 20,000 miles to watch us season and I’ll have no issue getting a season ticket, so it’s not about fear of missing out.

Do you want to have it so that nobody can ever be attracted to come and watch us and become the fans of the future? That’s how it would be with a capacity that low, and don’t quote the “we could easily expand” line, it’s not that easy and it’s not cheap. There are many thousands who can talk about the first game they went to which made them supporters, I haven’t met too many yet who was lyrical about that time they watched iFollow and got hooked on the sights, sounds & feeling that a live game gives you.

 

[mark82]

It’s too small. 18k means 15k home seats after away fans, take out the JSBs/ family area/ VIP/ corporate bits/ press etc and you’ve got probably about 12,000 general sale home tickets.

There seems to be a mindset of “if you haven’t gone to games recently then fuck you, you can’t be in our special club- no outsiders allowed”. And I’m someone who clocks up about 20,000 miles to watch us season and I’ll have no issue getting a season ticket, so it’s not about fear of missing out.

Do you want to have it so that nobody can ever be attracted to come and watch us and become the fans of the future? That’s how it would be with a capacity that low, and don’t quote the “we could easily expand” line, it’s not that easy and it’s not cheap. There are many thousands who can talk about the first game they went to which made them supporters, I haven’t met too many yet who was lyrical about that time they watched iFollow and got hooked on the sights, sounds & feeling that a live game gives you.

It's a balance. If we have it too big then it'll just feel soulless like the Ricoh. Too small then we don't maximise revenue.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Then that idea supports a stadium for our fan base. If you want to go and watch us play the Chelsea’s... then go and watch us against Rochdale. It helps maintain the average

I'm just pointing out the realism of the situation. There will be people who aren't that bothered about watching us, but want to watch Chelsea. Just as people will be more interested in seeing a winning team than one that isn't. Not saying it's right, just the way it is.

 

[Nick]

I'm just pointing out the realism of the situation. There will be people who aren't that bothered about watching us, but want to watch Chelsea. Just as people will be more interested in seeing a winning team than one that isn't. Not saying it's right, just the way it is.

Tell them to get a Chelsea season ticket

 

[mark82]

The reality is that our highest average attendance since leaving the premier league is 21k. That was first year in the Ricoh when it was a novelty and was higher than the average during our premier league years.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

It's a balance. If we have it too big then it'll just feel soulless like the Ricoh. Too small then we don't maximise revenue.

Yep I agree, and I’d pitch that at 20,000 home fans- 16k ‘lifers’, enough room for some that fancy a game and could turn into lifers, but not so many as to make the place feel empty.

I don’t know who said it but they were right- the only way to know is a season back at the Ricoh & not getting thrashed every week- see what the numbers are.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

The reality is that our highest average attendance since leaving the premier league is 21k. That was first year in the Ricoh when it was a novelty and was higher than the average during our premier league years.

ffs- the reality is also that since that time the club has been on an utter freefall, with zero to attract anyone to games apart from the hardcore fans and the insane.

You cannot use those seasons to predict anything with certainty.

 

[Nick]

ffs- the reality is also that since that time the club has been on an utter freefall, with zero to attract anyone to games apart from the hardcore fans and the insane.

You cannot use those seasons to predict anything with certainty.

Yeah 2 Wembley wins and a league win.

BUT WE WANT TO PLAY CHELSEA!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is the point, "Hardcore" or "insane" for going to matches when we aren't winning every week. That is just a football fan.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

Yeah 2 Wembley wins and a league win.

BUT WE WANT TO PLAY CHELSEA!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is the point, "Hardcore" or "insane" for going to matches when we aren't winning every week. That is just a football fan.

We’re never going to play Chelsea unless we get them in the cup, I still don’t understand that line at all. But when you have potentially WBA, Birmingham, Forest, Derby, Wednesday; maybe Villa etc... but also your Brentfords & Bournemouths, clearly 15k is too low, and 20k makes a lot more sense and saves millions on upgrading as soon as they work out that they’re missing out by setting it too low.

Anyway, let’s just hope it happens, worry about it seriously then. But just saying- why would we be the only club to decide to try and deliberately lose out on potential supporters & therefore revenue- after telling everyone that they want us to go as high as possible? At best it’s just over cautious and shows a lack of foresight, at worst it just suggests that it’s all bullshit anyway.

 

[mark82]

ffs- the reality is also that since that time the club has been on an utter freefall, with zero to attract anyone to games apart from the hardcore fans and the insane.

You cannot use those seasons to predict anything with certainty.

In the Championship I agree with your 24k figure (or at least 22k), but we need to show them it whether Ricoh or St. Andrews (not suggesting over 20k at St. Andrews but probably need to be averaging 12 - 15k).

 

[Ring Of Steel]

In the Championship I agree with your 24k figure (or at least 22k), but we need to show them it whether Ricoh or St. Andrews (not suggesting over 20k at St. Andrews but probably need to be averaging 12 - 15k).

I can’t argue with that, very sensible. Everything I say is based on Championship, always a “glass half full” kinda person

 

[shmmeee]

The reality is that our highest average attendance since leaving the premier league is 21k. That was first year in the Ricoh when it was a novelty and was higher than the average during our premier league years.

Not comparable. We were in decline and had been for some time and since then attendances generally have risen and the city has grown. There is no way we’d average below 20k in the Prem. Not in a million years. We’d get 20k mid table Champ these days. 25k in the Prem easy.

 

[shmmeee]

In the Championship I agree with your 24k figure (or at least 22k), but we need to show them it whether Ricoh or St. Andrews (not suggesting over 20k at St. Andrews but probably need to be averaging 12 - 15k).

That’s just not how it works “we need to show them”. The crowds are low because Brum is logistically harder than Cov for most Cov fans, not because fans need to fan harder.

It’s the clubs job to attract customers, not a customers moral obligation to attend.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Tbf Birmingham is hardly the place to show our potential in Coventry. Again, Brighton maybe better, pent up demand. Initial average at Falmer 20,003, highest attendance 21.5k, 1k off capacity (away fans?)

The average needs higher gates to be the average, of course.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Tbf Birmingham is hardly the place to show our potential in Coventry. Again, Brighton maybe better, pent up demand. Initial average at Falmer 20,003, highest attendance 21.5k, 1k off capacity (away fans?)

The average needs higher gates to be the average, of course.

Their second season saw an average of 26,212 after ground expansion...

 

[SeaSeeEffCee]

That’s just not how it works “we need to show them”. The crowds are low because Brum is logistically harder than Cov for most Cov fans, not because fans need to fan harder.

It’s the clubs job to attract customers, not a customers moral obligation to attend.

Equally the club aren't just going to make assumptions over required capacity based on guesswork. They can only go off historical evidence which shows that for the past three decades 21-22k has been our peak average.

And on the point from your other post about attendances going up, are they? Championship average attendance has hovered around 17-18k for the past 20 years. It only really ever goes above that when either Villa or Newcastle are in the league and Leeds are having a good season.

Championship - Attendance figures

This statistic shows the attendance of the Championship of the 19/20 season. Clubs are listed by overall attendance descending.

www.transfermarkt.co.uk

 

[shmmeee]

Equally the club aren't just going to make assumptions over required capacity based on guesswork. They can only go off historical evidence which shows that for the past three decades 21-22k has been our peak average.

And on the point from your other post about attendances going up, are they? Championship average attendance has hovered around 17-18k for the past 20 years. It only really ever goes above that when either Villa or Newcastle are in the league and Leeds are having a good season.

Championship - Attendance figures

This statistic shows the attendance of the Championship of the 19/20 season. Clubs are listed by overall attendance descending.

www.transfermarkt.co.uk

It was my impression they had. Clearly not I’m wrong. I still think you’d see citys averages higher than 15 k. We were above that every season in the Championship and over 20k in the Ricoh for several years. A new ground, a club on the up rather than spiralling down with admin and god know what else looming.

I stand by my statement that thinking we wouldn’t breach 20k upon promotion back to the Prem is ridiculously pessimistic. Going back twenty years and picking a slice out of history makes no more sense than going back to the 60s and claiming we need 35k.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

It was my impression they had. Clearly not I’m wrong. I still think you’d see citys averages higher than 15 k. We were above that every season in the Championship and over 20k in the Ricoh for several years. A new ground, a club on the up rather than spiralling down with admin and god know what else looming.

I stand by my statement that thinking we wouldn’t breach 20k upon promotion back to the Prem is ridiculously pessimistic. Going back twenty years and picking a slice out of history makes no more sense than going back to the 60s and claiming we need 35k.

If Huddersfield and Brighton can do it...

 

[Nick]

That’s just not how it works “we need to show them”. The crowds are low because Brum is logistically harder than Cov for most Cov fans, not because fans need to fan harder.

It’s the clubs job to attract customers, not a customers moral obligation to attend.

So if it's sold out every week they won't have an issue in not being able to go?

 

[Frostie]

If we ignore the fact it's our club for a minute, if you were looking at this what would suggest that 20k currently with the opportunity to increase to 35k is too small?

 

[Ring Of Steel]

If we ignore the fact it's our club for a minute, if you were looking at this what would suggest that 20k currently with the opportunity to increase to 35k is too small?

View attachment 15993

this is getting boring. The early years were higher than teams in the same bracket, then you have massive decline in football on show plus the biggest divisions in the fanbase of all time. We got 10k in League Two coming off the back of the most depressing season in my lifetime, couple of years later we have more goodwill and optimism than any time in decades, we just won the league- yet apparently we only need 5,000 more seats for matches against Forest, Villa, Brum than we did for clubs like Yeovil- the list is endless. If you just want to go look at cold numbers then we also need to slash 20,000 seats from Sunderland and tell Brentford not to waste their time with their new ground etc etc etc.

if you can’t understand (or ignore) the reasons for things happening, there is very little point in using them to try and plan for the future. The ‘sold out’ column is also wrong- just as quick examples- 93/94 we had three sides as the East Stand was being built and HR only held 17,000- and according to that the last game at HR was apparently not a sell out.

 

[chiefdave]

Another thing to remember is that it's not just "games we would sell out" but how much by: games against Leeds when we were in good form got 27-28k. If you're shutting out 7-10k fans a few times a season you're losing money as well as disappointing fans.

The club will have far more data on ticket sales than we have. I know we like to think SISU are clueless but does anyone really think they're goi g to build a 15K stadium if the data tells them they can sell 25K tickets every week? People seem to have taken the lowest figure that was mention in a meeting months ago when we were in League One and decided that is what the capacity will be.

Even if everything goes perfectly we're looking at 5 seasons before any new stadium. Plenty of time to show the club the fans will turn up for Championship football.

 

[Ring Of Steel]

The club will have far more data on ticket sales than we have. I know we like to think SISU are clueless but does anyone really think they're goi g to build a 15K stadium if the data tells them they can sell 25K tickets every week? People seem to have taken the lowest figure that was mention in a meeting months ago when we were in League One and decided that is what the capacity will be.

Even if everything goes perfectly we're looking at 5 seasons before any new stadium. Plenty of time to show the club the fans will turn up for Championship football.

Well for starters they did hire Russell Slade, Andy Thorn, oversaw Northampton and led us into the current mess around grounds, and we could go on for a long time before even arriving at Ken Dulieu and ‘choose the subs by text’ proposals. There is a significant archive of horrendous blunders that they have built up over the last 13 years, I know that doesn’t go down well but, well, thems the facts.

And that leads us to now, where current thinking seems to be “we will fuck the club up and create huge divisions within the fanbase, oh and by the way unless you pack out whatever ground we decide to rock up at, we’ll build you a tiny ground because the figures show that the club has very few fans”.

However- you’re right, it’s not an issue right now.

 

[mark82]

That’s just not how it works “we need to show them”. The crowds are low because Brum is logistically harder than Cov for most Cov fans, not because fans need to fan harder.

It’s the clubs job to attract customers, not a customers moral obligation to attend.

100% agree with this. The product is good at the moment, so hopefully that helps.

 

[shmmeee]

So if it's sold out every week they won't have an issue in not being able to go?

You’ve lost me.

If we ignore the fact it's our club for a minute, if you were looking at this what would suggest that 20k currently with the opportunity to increase to 35k is too small?

View attachment 15993

I’d ask if you’ve got one that shows what happens during an upswing rather than a down and if you can extrapolate recent trends into the future.

Besides you’re moving the goal posts. People are talking about 20k being enough for the Prem and 15k being enough for the Championship.

 

[shmmeee]

100% agree with this. The product is good at the moment, so hopefully that helps.

Yep. The club have been doing their part the last few years and it’s a shame that’s been tainted by the ground situation because I’d have expected an average of 14/15k last season.

 

[mark82]

Yep. The club have been doing their part the last few years and it’s a shame that’s been tainted by the ground situation because I’d have expected an average of 14/15k last season.

Yep, that was roughly Dave Boddy's estimate from memory.

 

[oldfiver]

Yep, that was roughly Dave Boddy's estimate from memory.

I think that was the figure quoted for BPA too

 

[mr_monkey]

Well for starters they did hire Russell Slade, Andy Thorn, oversaw Northampton and led us into the current mess around grounds, and we could go on for a long time before even arriving at Ken Dulieu and ‘choose the subs by text’ proposals. There is a significant archive of horrendous blunders that they have built up over the last 13 years, I know that doesn’t go down well but, well, thems the facts.

And that leads us to now, where current thinking seems to be “we will fuck the club up and create huge divisions within the fanbase, oh and by the way unless you pack out whatever ground we decide to rock up at, we’ll build you a tiny ground because the figures show that the club has very few fans”.

However- you’re right, it’s not an issue right now.

You are however (again ) ignoring the good will that the club has built over the last few years and their change in approach to the whole running of a football club. If it comes to 3 years time and we are mid/playoffs in the championship they will build a bigger capacity, if we aren't then they will not it's as simple as that.

You are stuck on the past and ignoring the good things that have happened over the last 3 years to make a judgement on what will happen in 5 years time. We as fans need to show that there is an appetite for a stadium bigger than 20k, realise (this time) it isn't the fault of the football club if we can't play on cov in the short term and look forward to the long-term when we have our own stadium that can be made bigger if the demand is there

 

[Ring Of Steel]

You are however (again ) ignoring the good will that the club has built over the last few years and their change in approach to the whole running of a football club. If it comes to 3 years time and we are mid/playoffs in the championship they will build a bigger capacity, if we aren't then they will not it's as simple as that.

You are stuck on the past and ignoring the good things that have happened over the last 3 years to make a judgement on what will happen in 5 years time. We as fans need to show that there is an appetite for a stadium bigger than 20k, realise (this time) it isn't the fault of the football club if we can't play on cov in the short term and look forward to the long-term when we have our own stadium that can be made bigger if the demand is there

I'm not ignoring anything, I'm a massive optimist to the point I even get slagged off for going after what I perceive (rightly or wrongly) to be negativity. But even just by looking at threads here & moreso on other media, its plain that it will take more than 3 years upswing (which most see as Robins' doing, not the owners') to repair the damage that was done. I'm in, I'll be there whether its 18k or 40k or even on the bloody Memorial Park- but there are many who won't be because they hate what has happened to the club, and thats just a fact unfortunately.