Could we build a temp ground at UoW? (4 Viewers)

[ajsccfc]

For athletics there's a lovely track and what's hosted I imagine most schools' sports days over the years but there's only a lightweight movable bleachers with a handful of seats there. The only real provision at the university for spectator sports currently is the main hall in the new sports hub which has removable seating and ironically hosts the Wasps netball team.

 

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[Gynnsthetonic]

I mentioned this idea yesterday, Brighton did it at the Withdean and survived and im sure they had temporary stands, what about the Butts idea again, If they agreed pay for a new pitch, 1temporary stand, get around 8000 in there, if either of these plans came to fruition CCC would squirm!!

 

[mark82]

Rotherham's stadium took 1 year, 1 month to build. I don't think the build stage will take that long it's all the red tape prior to that which takes time.

 

[shmmeee]

You’d still need planning for a temp structure I assume?

 

[mark82]

I mentioned this idea yesterday, Brighton did it at the Withdean and survived and im sure they had temporary stands, what about the Butts idea again, If they agreed pay for a new pitch, 1temporary stand, get around 8000 in there, if either of these plans came to fruition CCC would squirm!!

Have asked the question. Was deemed not viable. CRFC are on good terms with those at the club so if it could've worked out they would've done it. It's not just the pitch.

 

[chiefdave]

You’d still need planning for a temp structure I assume?

I think there's a loophole where you can have a temporary stand up for something like 30 days without planning permission. Although on a practical level if you're talking multiple stands for 15K you obviously wouldn't be able to keep taking them up and down to avoid getting planning permission.

 

[theferret]

I think there's a loophole where you can have a temporary stand up for something like 30 days without planning permission. Although on a practical level if you're talking multiple stands for 15K you obviously wouldn't be able to keep taking them up and down to avoid getting planning permission.

You would need planning for sure. But, if the temporary venue didn't get too ambitious on capacity and it was easily proven that existing roads could handle the road traffic it would generate, you wonder the grounds on which it could be turned down.

 

[shmmeee]

I think there's a loophole where you can have a temporary stand up for something like 30 days without planning permission. Although on a practical level if you're talking multiple stands for 15K you obviously wouldn't be able to keep taking them up and down to avoid getting planning permission.

Has anyone got a lot of hay bales?

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I think the end game is something, anything, that makes Joy feel vindicated at this point. I think it stopped being about CCFC or the financial aspects some time ago. I agree I can’t see how even a positive outcome for Sisu results in the club getting the Ricoh. I’m yet to be convinced if Wasps go bust they disappear and don’t just get reincarnated like football teams do. But I won’t pretend to understand rugby finances. Best bet is likely some cash settlement I’d guess. Though the way Sisu have dragged their heels on a new ground suggests they think the Ricoh is still a long term possibility. Otherwise they’d be a bit more motivated to get going on it.

I think @WestEndAgro first hinting at a UoW partnership back in 2014 and the announcement of a ‘potential Partnership’ this week, in 2020. Probably suggests it’s taken this long to actually coalesce.

It takes a long time to plan a stadium and we have the increased difficulty of having to find a site outside of CCC jurisdiction, whilst behind inside the city of Coventry boundaries.

Ultimately, this season will be revealing. If no progress is being made on the partnership with UoW, then we need to ratchet pressure on Joy, Boddy and others.

Right now, it looks like the only thing preventing us playing in Coventry is that indemnity. Therefore, we need to ratchet the pressure on CCC and Wasps.

 

[fatso]

Lets assume there is something to the story of a new ground at the university, with the uni also posting a statement there seems to be. Could we build a temporary ground there while the main ground is going through planning and being built?

There's a fair bit of land up there, not entirely sure what belongs to the uni. Its certainly technically possible, several of the London Olympic venues were temporary.

Of course it sounds a bit ridiculous but its been done before. After the earthquake in New Zealand they built a new, temporary, stadium in 100 days. 18,000 capacity and designed to last 3-5 years. Was built by the company who handed London 2012 and also the new Spurs stadium.

View attachment 16063

New Christchurch Stadium | Populous

While Christchurch continues the painstaking process of rebuilding after last year’s destructive earthquake, optimistic signs of renewal are...

www.archilovers.com

one hundred days

Drawn together in a few short months, the new AMI Stadium by Populous provides a much-needed home ground for Christchurch's beloved Crusaders

trendsideas.com

Why not just sit tight and wait for the outcome of the EU court ruling?
With that out of the way, the legal battle will be over, and the current impasse will be over. We can then look at all options available and make a decision without all of the current uncertainty.

 

[shmmeee]

Why not just sit tight and wait for the outcome of the EU court ruling?
With that out of the way, the legal battle will be over, and the current impasse will be over. We can then look at all options available and make a decision without all of the current uncertainty.

You think that’ll happen any time soon? Or that it’s the last avenue that could be pursued? With appeals you could be talking longer than the five years for a new ground anyway.

 

[Grendel]

What’s the end game here?

Do you believe the club’s goal is to obtain control of the RICOH?

If so, I’d like to know your thoughts on how the club could realistically go about this?

Id guess some half arsed strategy exists along the lines of busting wasps and trying to purchase the lease when the lease falls into the admin process - it does not necessarily go back to the council if ACL falls into administration

wasps finances are poor and therefore there has to be a risk of this - so they will not want us back while that exposure exists and the council certainly will not

 

[shmmeee]

Id guess some half arsed strategy exists along the lines of busting wasps and trying to purchase the lease when the lease falls into the admin process - it does not necessarily go back to the council if ACL falls into administration

wasps finances are poor and therefore there has to be a risk of this - so they will not want us back while that exposure exists and the council certainly will not

You’re a man of the world G. What happens if Wasps go bust? Is there an admin process like in football where someone can pick them up debt free but with the “golden share” and any assets they negotiate? Or are they just wiped from the league and someone else comes up to replace them like Bury?

 

[fatso]

You think that’ll happen any time soon? Or that it’s the last avenue that could be pursued? With appeals you could be talking longer than the five years for a new ground anyway.

But why piss money up the wall (potentially at least). On a new stadium that we won’t need once wasps have gone bankrupt, fucked off out of Cov or decided to ground share with some other sports club.
And there’s no realistic fucking chance of building anything in 5 years anyway.
There isn’t even a plan drawn up, let alone permission granted. In effect it’s absolutely nothing more than a very vague memorandum of understanding between 2 parties. Nothing more than that, And there’s no coincidence that it came out when it did, nothing more than PR to placate the fans on the eve of talks collapsing again.

I’ve said it before, the only way back to the Ricoh is by driving wasps into bankruptcy, we can play a small part in this by publicly announcing that city fans will boycott any LOCAL buisiness that is seen to sponsor wasps.
(Obviously big national companies won’t give a fuck, but local ones will)

 

[Nick]

This?

View attachment 16065

I might be thinking of that, I guess @Travs would know a fair bit but maybe I imagined there was a little stand. A bit like the one at Pingles.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I think the end game is something, anything, that makes Joy feel vindicated at this point. I think it stopped being about CCFC or the financial aspects some time ago. I agree I can’t see how even a positive outcome for Sisu results in the club getting the Ricoh. I’m yet to be convinced if Wasps go bust they disappear and don’t just get reincarnated like football teams do. But I won’t pretend to understand rugby finances. Best bet is likely some cash settlement I’d guess. Though the way Sisu have dragged their heels on a new ground suggests they think the Ricoh is still a long term possibility. Otherwise they’d be a bit more motivated to get going on it.

The impression I've always got of Joy is that she's one of those people like Trump, who's mind will alter he memory of events to support her idea of what happened to such an extent it becomes their 'reality' and truly believe that is what actually happened. Even faced with evidence to the contrary they'll say 'fake news' because their mind is utterly convinced by the version they've created.

 

[Grendel]

You’re a man of the world G. What happens if Wasps go bust? Is there an admin process like in football where someone can pick them up debt free but with the “golden share” and any assets they negotiate? Or are they just wiped from the league and someone else comes up to replace them like Bury?

To be honest I don’t actually think it matters what happens to wasps. Wasps do not directly own ACL - Wasps holdings do. It’s actually possible for wasps to be cast aside by wasps holdings if the going gets to tough to preserve the property

I don’t think Derek Richardson is overly interested in rugby and saw the opportunity for development. Wasps holdings I think are still technically “owned” by comango ltd and Richardson is the some director

The hotel project in car park C is being overseen by another company - i think IEC Experience - it has 4 active directors but Richardson has overall control of voting rights

So what happens to the rugby end (which is the part of holdings that loses money) is not necessarily the problem. It will be cast aside I think if it gets in the way of Richardson’s aims

Richardson remains silent but has far more influence than anyone and I suspect is a lot smarter than Seppala - Eastwood is a puppet in the same way fisher and Boddy are

He’s the one who needs to speak

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Id guess some half arsed strategy exists along the lines of busting wasps and trying to purchase the lease when the lease falls into the admin process - it does not necessarily go back to the council if ACL falls into administration

wasps finances are poor and therefore there has to be a risk of this - so they will not want us back while that exposure exists and the council certainly will not

It was their strategy before with ACL so I see no reason why they wouldn't use the same tactics again against Wasps.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Id guess some half arsed strategy exists along the lines of busting wasps and trying to purchase the lease when the lease falls into the admin process - it does not necessarily go back to the council if ACL falls into administration

wasps finances are poor and therefore there has to be a risk of this - so they will not want us back while that exposure exists and the council certainly will not

I’ve got three genuine questions I hope you could shed some light on:

In what circumstances would the lease automatically go to CCC?

Similarly, what happens for there to an admin process to purchase the lease?

Carrying on from the last question, couldn’t the CCC make a bid that CCFC couldn’t match? In the same way SISU managed to maintain control of the club when we went into admin in 2013.

 

[Travs]

I might be thinking of that, I guess @Travs would know a fair bit but maybe I imagined there was a little stand. A bit like the one at Pingles.

The Athletics Track (which holds various athletics competition, as well as being used as a "base" for international squads when the Olympics/Commonwealth/etc comes to the UK..... it does actually have a footballl pitch in the middle (although that's pretty irrelavant, if it's got room for a javelin or hammer to be wanged about, there's room for a pitch!!).

However there is definitely no "Pingles style" stand. There's not really room for any temporary stand or bleachers anyway. One end has all the existing Uni Changing Rooms/Gyms, and the Coventry Godiva Harriers clubhouse. The other end doesn't have much space at all behind it, although i'm not sure what is behind it.

Down one side it slopes off behind, towards the 4G football pitches. The other side backs up against the tennis centre.

I personally can't see anything other than a non-starter on that particular site. The track and the surrounding sports centre and facilities are well established, are a major selling-point of the University, and i'd be surprised if they don't bring in some decent revenue.

I'd also like to put in a shameless plug for Coventry Godiva Harriers, who formed in 1879 are actually older than CCFC, and for sections of the 60/70/80's were the "Manchester United" of athletics in this country... surely the most successful Coventry sporting institution, still representing at National/Olympic/World level!!!!

 

[SBT]

What’s the end game here?

Do you believe the club’s goal is to obtain control of the RICOH?

If so, I’d like to know your thoughts on how the club could realistically go about this?

The EU complaint rules the agreement with Wasps was illegal and either levies huge financial penalties or somehow declares the original deal void (Wasps are supposedly sufficiently worried about this scenario that they're demanding indemnity)

Wasps face bankruptcy and are forced to either bail from Cov entirely and groundshare elsewhere, or ask the council for a sweetheart deal/peppercorn rent at the Ricoh while they try to sort their finances. The council likely accepts.

With Wasps reeling and the council taking a bath on the Ricoh, SISU return to the negotiating table, offering to take a controlling stake on the same terms Wasps had. The council and Wasps insist on a deal loaded with NDAs that allow them to hand everything over in a way that doesn't totally humiliate them and makes it look like they had our best interests at heart the whole time. We go back to debating whether James Collins would be worth a punt - he's a City fan you know!

Possible sticking points (and they're big ones!):

- The above process takes so long the EFL won't allow us to groundshare at Birmingham that long
- Wasps secure alternative financing that keeps them afloat indefinitely
- Interest in CCFC/viability of the Ricoh dwindles to the point where it no longer makes financial sense for SISU to hang on to their investment
- The council is still so bitter that it chooses financial ruin over any kind of deal with SISU (or somehow pulls another suitor out of the bag like it did with Wasps in 2014)
- SISU's hubris means they refuse to accept any compromise deal that doesn't end in Wasps and the council being completely humbled

The way to circumvent all of that of course is to build our own stadium - a solution so obvious that it begs the question why we've spent six years with Wasps in Coventry and have only a joint statement with Warwick University to show for it. Either SISU are terrible at building stadiums, or they're not actually that interested.

 

[Grendel]

I’ve got three genuine questions I hope you could shed some light on:

In what circumstances would the lease automatically go to CCC?

Similarly, what happens for there to an admin process to purchase the lease?

Carrying on from the last question, couldn’t the CCC make a bid that CCFC couldn’t match? In the same way SISU managed to maintain control of the club when we went into admin in 2013.

Well this link shows what’s in the lease

Club aims to raise £35m from bond

Fantastic News - http://www.coventrytelegraph.net/news/coventry-news/wasps-rfc-looks-raise-35million-9121703 Copy and Paste Article. No mention of it paying Richardson back too? The Richardson bit is there hidden as 'refinancing shareholder loans' I believe Sounds better than Richardsons...

www.skybluestalk.co.uk

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

The EU complaint rules the agreement with Wasps was illegal and either levies huge financial penalties or somehow declares the original deal void (Wasps are supposedly sufficiently worried about this scenario that they're demanding indemnity)

Wasps face bankruptcy and are forced to either bail from Cov entirely and groundshare elsewhere, or ask the council for a sweetheart deal/peppercorn rent at the Ricoh while they try to sort their finances. The council likely accepts.

With Wasps reeling and the council taking a bath on the Ricoh, SISU return to the negotiating table, offering to take a controlling stake on the same terms Wasps had. The council and Wasps insist on a deal loaded with NDAs that allow them to hand everything over in a way that doesn't totally humiliate them and makes it look like they had our best interests at heart the whole time. We go back to debating whether James Collins would be worth a punt - he's a City fan you know!

Possible sticking points (and they're big ones!):

- The above process takes so long the EFL won't allow us to groundshare at Birmingham that long
- Wasps secure alternative financing that keeps them afloat indefinitely
- Interest in CCFC/viability of the Ricoh dwindles to the point where it no longer makes financial sense for SISU to hang on to their investment
- The council is still so bitter that it chooses financial ruin over any kind of deal with SISU (or somehow pulls another suitor out of the bag like it did with Wasps in 2014)
- SISU's hubris means they refuse to accept any compromise deal that doesn't end in Wasps and the council being completely humbled

The way to circumvent all of that of course is to build our own stadium - a solution so obvious that it begs the question why we've spent six years with Wasps in Coventry and have only a joint statement with Warwick University to show for it. Either SISU are terrible at building stadiums, or they're not actually that interested.

How long did it take to build the RICOH from planning to completion?

The plan for us to move from HR to the RICOH was announced in 1997, construction began in 1999 and completed in 2005. That’s 8 years and that is with the cooperation of the CCC.

With respect, you’re skirting the issue of finding a site that is inside the city boundaries of Coventry, whilst being outside of the CCC’s jurisdiction.

On another thread, you claim you reckon CCC would allow the club to build a new stadium inside their jurisdiction. Which is, with all due respect, a pretty baseless claim with no evidence to support it. From the CCC’s point of view, it also makes no sense when there is already an expensive multi-event stadium already inside its jurisdiction.

 

[Kneeza]

I mentioned this idea yesterday, Brighton did it at the Withdean and survived and im sure they had temporary stands, what about the Butts idea again, If they agreed pay for a new pitch, 1temporary stand, get around 8000 in there, if either of these plans came to fruition CCC would squirm!!

Once again...
The pitch - that the club laid at huge expense twelve months ago, and relaid again a month or two back under guarantee due to insufficient drainage - isn't going anywhere
It's the club's First, Second, and Academy sides' home pitch. It's their training ground. It's the home pitch of Cov Bears RLFC, and Cov United, and Cov Ladies. It hosts six-a-side footy weekly. It also hosts kids' training camps, internationals, concerts, firework displays, etc, etc, etc.
It's the club's cash-cow. The foundation on which the club is building its 'Premiership-Ready' credentials.
It's going nowhere.

(All very much dependent on this fucking virus doing one at some point of course ).

 

[oscillatewildly]

I just can’t believe any of it. I know you said let’s assume but I really can’t.
I’m not having a go as it’s obvious we need to move on so I do agree but we really aren’t going to be building our new ground.

the timing was clearly to satisfy the EFL and fans. It was a quickly made up story with view to breaking Friday’s dreadful news. I just pray something happens and you are on to something.

100% #hedgefundsdontbuildfootballgrounds #dreamsarejustdreams #callmethebogeymanbutijusttellthetruth #weaintgonnabeshittingonthevillanextseason

 

[oscillatewildly]

Exactly. They don’t get involved involved in these games.

Mark - wondering if on your next correspondence with Joy if you ask for fans to have regular monthly updates on the progression to building a stadium. Regular comms on the matter supported by evidence of site location to full build will gain a lot of support.

Why? What's the price they may have to pay if no development happens? Worldwide boycott of rich overseas students seeking highly sought degrees?

 

[oscillatewildly]

What’s the end game here?

Do you believe the club’s goal is to obtain control of the RICOH?

If so, I’d like to know your thoughts on how the club could realistically go about this?

Probably through the courts? That'll show 'em!

 

[Moff]

Don't the Uni have something for athletics? I am no expert but I am sure i have seen something up there.

(Obviously it isn't going to be a championship quality stadium)

As far as i'm led to believe the plans for a stadium wouldn't be there, its on land on the other side of the Uni, as I think West End Boy (or similar name) posted a week or so ago.

This land is not within Coventry and just the other side of the border so is under WDC jurisdiction, for both the stadium and most of the infrastructure. It is close enough for a branch line from the Cov-Leam railway line.