Wasps downward spiral... (69 Viewers)

[chiefdave]

Im sure Dave knows more. I think people sell due due to confidence and if they don't think they will make anything back. As I assume was goes pop or default on the bond they don't get anything.

I'm not an expert, only know what my account has told me when I've bugged him about it!

But that seems pretty much it. You don't sell something for £40 if you know you're getting £100 for it in less than 2 years.

Would guess that also means there's concerns about the security (ie: the Ricoh) covering the amount owed if Wasps can't pay.

 

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[Kneeza]

Yer, so someone has traded 10k of bonds at 37p this morning. Assuming they bought them at issue, then they've just lost £6300.

37 quid isn't it? Not pence.
Or have I been getting it wrong all along?

 

[Liquid Gold]

37 quid isn't it? Not pence.
Or have I been getting it wrong all along?

It doesn't really matter, it's 37% so £37 on £100 investment or 37p on £1 investment.

 

[Kneeza]

It doesn't really matter, it's 37% so £37 on £100 investment or 37p on £1 investment.

Yeah, fair enough. I just understood the bond unit price to be £100 at release, that's all.

 

[oldfiver]

37 quid isn't it? Not pence.
Or have I been getting it wrong all along?

The initial offer was at 100% of the bond price

Moving forward the current offer price is 37%.

 

[Grendel]

Im sure Dave knows more. I think people sell due due to confidence and if they don't think they will make anything back. As I assume was goes pop or default on the bond they don't get anything.

You are more correct than Dave actually

 

[CCFC88]

So if the 35m is secured against the stadium and they have to sell the stadium to repay bonds, if they sell for 35m all bondholders get their capital back.

If people are selling at (around) 37%, that would suggest the bonholders don't think the stadium could be sold for 13m (37% of the 35m) in 2 years time, but isn't it in the books as valued at around 51m?

All very strange, seems like a bargain to buy at this price.

 

[Grendel]

So if the 35m is secured against the stadium and they have to sell the stadium to repay bonds, if they sell for 35m all bondholders get their capital back.

If people are selling at (around) 37%, that would suggest the bonholders don't think the stadium could be sold for 13m (37% of the 35m) in 2 years time, but isn't it in the books as valued at around 51m?

All very strange, seems like a bargain to buy at this price.

It doesn’t really work like that

The price is effectively what a seller can get for his bond. It can be an expression of confidence in what it may yield but the individual sellers may have reasons to sell.

The idea would be to raise the money again through re financing and a large proportion of the funding is not the original debt but loans paid back to Richardson and for other development

 

[oldfiver]

Trades @ 34.85 today

 

[MusicDating]

Trades @ 34.85 today

Curious that there's been a fair bit of trading (and taking losses) ahead of a rumoured CCFC announcement tomorrow...

 

[oldfiver]

Curious that there's been a fair bit of trading (and taking losses) ahead of a rumoured CCFC announcement tomorrow...

I would assume a coincidence

If bad news would there be more baling out ? If good news price would go up?

 

[chiefdave]

Interesting response from Statford Council's Active Communities Team. Seems they're not happy with Wasps community involvement statement. They query the loss of facilities and what will be replacing them and if existing users have been consulted with regard to suitable provision being made for them to continue.

Also calls out some of the 'facts' in Wasps statement about alternative facilities in the area saying a lot of it is incorrect.

 

[Liquid Gold]

I think wasps must be kicking themselves for trying to be the big dog when they came in. If they worked I partnership with the club they could have garnered more support but they wanted to assert themselves as the main show and lost any hope of good Will from city fans.

 

[Nick]

Interesting response from Statford Council's Active Communities Team. Seems they're not happy with Wasps community involvement statement. They query the loss of facilities and what will be replacing them and if existing users have been consulted with regard to suitable provision being made for them to continue.

Also calls out some of the 'facts' in Wasps statement about alternative facilities in the area saying a lot of it is incorrect.

Have you got a link

 

[shepardo01]

Have you got a link

Its on the Henley Alliance group page on FB. Just had a look. Couldn't link it.
......also, the local Councillor who should be supporting his local constituents, has, on freedom of information sourced e.mails been actively seen to be supporting the application. Russ and the group aren't impressed!!
Worth a look.....

 

[Covstu]

I think wasps must be kicking themselves for trying to be the big dog when they came in. If they worked I partnership with the club they could have garnered more support but they wanted to assert themselves as the main show and lost any hope of good Will from city fans.

Yep when straight for the throat from the getgo around the stadium which put backs up. Our owners obviously didn’t help prior to this but a partnership approach to the stadium could have been lucrative for both clubs at the time. Their bid to be the top rugby team in the country failed miserably now seeing our club rise and their bargaining power drop.

 

[chiefdave]

Have you got a link

Not sure if this will work off my phone.

 

[jordan210]

Its on the Henley Alliance group page on FB. Just had a look. Couldn't link it.
......also, the local Councillor who should be supporting his local constituents, has, on freedom of information sourced e.mails been actively seen to be supporting the application. Russ and the group aren't impressed!!
Worth a look.....

It appears quite a lot of Councillors have a lot of self interest when dealing with rugby clubs doesn't it !

 

[Nick]

It appears quite a lot of Councillors have a lot of self interest when dealing with rugby clubs doesn't it !

I can't see it, what they getting?

 

[jordan210]

I can't see it, what they getting?

Thats the document from the group. Looks like some one from Wasps emailing the Councillor saying he will show his support.

Looks like the earlier conversations are missing mids you

 

[chiefdave]

Sport England have put in an objection to the training ground planning application. Its pretty scathing.

Says a statement from Wasps isn't a community agreement and they require an actual agreement to be in place, basically they won't let Wasps give some waffle now and not follow through on anything if they get the go ahead.

Not happy that the current facilities are being removed and not replaced. Say you can't just give a list of other facilities, they need proof they have capacity and the users of the Henly site would be able to access them.

They seem to have spoken to clubs Wasps claim have relocated from Henly and been told no they haven't so have called Wasps out on that.

Wasps have claimed there will be a new pitch available for use which according to Sport England does't actually appear on the plans.

Obviously I'm not a planning officer but looking at what Sport England have submitted I struggle to see how this gets approved.

 

[oldfiver]

Sport England have put in an objection to the training ground planning application. Its pretty scathing.

Says a statement from Wasps isn't a community agreement and they require an actual agreement to be in place, basically they won't let Wasps give some waffle now and not follow through on anything if they get the go ahead.

Not happy that the current facilities are being removed and not replaced. Say you can't just give a list of other facilities, they need proof they have capacity and the users of the Henly site would be able to access them.

They seem to have spoken to clubs Wasps claim have relocated from Henly and been told no they haven't so have called Wasps out on that.

Wasps have claimed there will be a new pitch available for use which according to Sport England does't actually appear on the plans.

Obviously I'm not a planning officer but looking at what Sport England have submitted I struggle to see how this gets approved.

But the most telling thing is it is not at the Ricoh site as signed up to at the time of the purchase

 

[CCFC54321]

Sport England have put in an objection to the training ground planning application. Its pretty scathing.

Says a statement from Wasps isn't a community agreement and they require an actual agreement to be in place, basically they won't let Wasps give some waffle now and not follow through on anything if they get the go ahead.

Not happy that the current facilities are being removed and not replaced. Say you can't just give a list of other facilities, they need proof they have capacity and the users of the Henly site would be able to access them.

They seem to have spoken to clubs Wasps claim have relocated from Henly and been told no they haven't so have called Wasps out on that.

Wasps have claimed there will be a new pitch available for use which according to Sport England does't actually appear on the plans.

Obviously I'm not a planning officer but looking at what Sport England have submitted I struggle to see how this gets approved.

I just don’t know how the bastards can sleep at night....

 

[shepardo01]

I just don’t know how the bastards can sleep at night....

Wasps lying?..... surely not!

 

[CCFC54321]

Wasps lying?..... surely not!

Wasps-Münchausen syndrome- is a natural reaction to lie when faced with anything asked to them. The city of Coventry has them branded as them telling lies, but the correct diagnosis for the pathological lies told by the broke London rugby club is Wasps-Münchausen syndrome.

 

[speedie87]

So wasps announced they were in breach of the covenants on the bonds a few weeks back.......is there a time limit on when that has to be resolved or a date where bond holders can call in the security on the bonds by?

Surely that would be more realistic way of bond holders seeing a return at the moment?

 

[oldfiver]

So wasps announced they were in breach of the covenants on the bonds a few weeks back.......is there a time limit on when that has to be resolved or a date where bond holders can call in the security on the bonds by?

Surely that would be more realistic way of bond holders seeing a return at the moment?

There is a Trustee (appointed by WASPS) who is responsible to ensure the covenants are being met. However he does not have to disclose to anyone who is not a Bond Holder so we do not know the position. The understanding is more than 25% of the Bond Holders have to agree to any action or changes

 

[slyblue57]

Little chance, sadly, the Bond holders wo nt agree to the Franchise delaying payment again . The crux will be in 2022 . Strange that no action has been taken re the Franchises falsification of their accounts though.

 

[speedie87]

Little chance, sadly, the Bond holders wo nt agree to the Franchise delaying payment again . The crux will be in 2022 . Strange that no action has been taken re the Franchises falsification of their accounts though.

I contacted the fsa a year or so ago now after the reports in ft about the investigation in them re the accounts fraud, and me not not being able to find anything on their website about its status. They eventually told me there was no investigation.

 

[oldfiver]

Little chance, sadly, the Bond holders wo nt agree to the Franchise delaying payment again . The crux will be in 2022 . Strange that no action has been taken re the Franchises falsification of their accounts though.

Depends on who the majority of bond holders are !

 

[Philosoraptor]

There's certainly dynamite in those redacted emails.

"I’m meeting the new developer who should be purchasing the old college buildings this Thursday to discuss the acquisition of one or both of the existing pitches. They seem keen to sell at least one."

 

[Nick]

Can you post them up?

 

[Philosoraptor]

Can you post them up?

Thats the document from the group. Looks like some one from Wasps emailing the Councillor saying he will show his support.

Looks like the earlier conversations are missing mids you

The Email is a bit ambiguous about the plans for the pitches; who wants to sell them, who owns them, if one of the pitches is being kept by the original owners, or if the developer is keen to sell on one of the pitches after acquisition.

There's probably more information somewhere which will clear this stuff up.

Land for development must be at a premium in Henley-In-Arden.

 

[speedie87]

Does anyone know the case number for eu state aid case can’t find one on eu website - don’t know if they only publish them once final, but want to chase them up and they want a reference.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Does anyone know the case number for eu state aid case can’t find one on eu website - don’t know if they only publish them once final, but want to chase them up and they want a reference.

It won't be on that website until there is an outcome