Moving Forward - New Stadium Questions (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter mark82
- Start date
Nick
Administrator
The thing is, councils can make things easier or very very hard. That is the point people are making.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
They can. They need something to make easy or hard first, though.
Nick
Administrator
It’s not a deflection it’s just a statement of fact. You can have multiple stadiums in reasonable sized cities. It’s not even uncommon.
It might feel odd to have two stadiums but the only relevant factors are can we get it built. It’s not likely to compete with the Ricoh for the same events so it shouldn’t be an issue for both to exist.
The Ricoh only becomes a white elephant IF wasps leave Cov. That’s not to say having us as renters wasn’t in their business plan and a sympathetic council won’t try stop a new stadium being built. Just that having two stadiums in the city is not a genuine obstacle to getting it built.
Nick
Administrator
They already see it as competition for the Ricoh because it won't have CCFC paying it's bills.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
That’s simply not true.
Key differences:
1) Developed land had intersecting council jurisdictions. Brighton Hove CC and Lewes District Council (LDC).
2) The planning permission for the stadium was submitted too, and approved by Brighton Hove CC and NOT to LDC.
3) The issue, therefore, was that some of the land being developed (but NOT the stadium) was in LDC jurisdiction rather than Brighton Hove CC. They didn’t want that.
4) LDC’s arguments were against Brighton Hove’s interpretation of the policies laid out in a link I’ll provide.
Again, Brighton were not trying to build the stadium in LDC, and their local council (Brighton Hove) was supportive of the stadium project.
You’ve presented Lewes opposition to Falmer Stadium as if they were the local council responsible in granting planning permission for the project. This simply isn’t true.
Link:
Community Stadium - History
I said it won’t compete for the same events. I also said they might be an obstruction.
All I’m saying is two stadiums is not a genuine reason to not build.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
We don't. SISU haven't moved forward in the slightest for CCC to start raising objections.
The evidence is they seem keen to find holes in Ricoh process, and put a lot of energy into that. When it comes to planning process however, they're rather apathetic...
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
What other city that is similarly sized to Coventry in the UK would have 3 sports stadiums?
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
I don’t disagree.
Again, the Brighton example. One local authority agreed with the planned work, the other didn’t.
The link I provided to NW outlined a few things. The main contention is a disagreement over interpretation of policy.
Which clearly demonstrates that some of this is open to interpretation. Without having to resort to tactics the CCP or medieval landowners would use.
Skyblueweeman
Well-Known Member
Bristol - Ashton Gate, Memorial Ground and County Ground
Leicester - KingPower, Welford Rd, Grace Rd
Nottingham - City Ground, Meadow Lane, Trent Bridge
Leeds - Elland Road, Headingly (cricket), Headingly (Rugby)
Southampton - St Mary's, Ageas Bowl, Eastleigh (albeit Eastleigh is just outside Southampton)
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Nick
Administrator
Yes, we have seen examples of CCC trying to make things difficult.
We have also seen them make things very easy for Wasps.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
I must have missed us sorting the site out and applying for planning permission, before taking it to appeal, and then for a judicial review.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
The question that keeps springing to mind is why not start with a capacity of 25,500? Same as HR. Feels like another step backwards to me if we don’t at least replace HR. I understand that it will cost more money as an initial investment but given it’s a new build it will be considerably cheaper than expansion at a later date. Just makes more sense to me and makes a positive statement to fans, especially fans of a certain age that are old enough to remember HR.
Nick
Administrator
You must have missed the council showing examples of how they can stick their noses in and make things difficult?
It isn't just CCFC, look at the hotel at the Ricoh stuff. It has put them in an awkward position with Wasps wanting something that have previously ruled out just over the road.
Paxman II
Well-Known Member
It would be raised capital. Far more detail to this sort of thing than just saying 'we' can't afford it.
Nottingham for one.
Either way it’s irrelevant. It can be used as an objection but it’s not genuine. All that matters is can you afford to build it.
Yes, obviously it would be raised capital and of course there is more detail to to. You still have to provide a business case to raise capital and pay said capital back. If we build a stadium that is too big we won’t be able to do that. Hence my comment that it would need to be sustainably financed.
Paxman II
Well-Known Member
I have already expressed why? If you are one of these that believe you will get a 20k seater for 30m you have no commercial acumen.
Scale is the operative word. Just how much would it cost eventually if you built for 20k, where all the preparations of land, and other infrastructure would be the same as for a 30k stadium, and then return at a later date to add more modules...at what further higher cost than can be accomplished in the first place? Why lose the potential of much higher turnover from more capacity where running cost would be little difference? We filled the Ricoh on a number of occasionseven in League 1 (Crewe comes to mind) When we were in the championship we were on a terrible downward spiral, owners despised, people staying away, and relegation. Moving to Northampton and the rest of it has given a false positive of the support for CCFC once back in the championship (or further) and on the front foot. I feel it will not be built by SISU in any case. Getting planning approval in place will be their goal. The Ricoh is not going away and SISU will have their eye on that for the length of time they own us. A return or the outside chance of some sort of take over/take back is still probable while the situation continues to evolve.
usskyblue
Well-Known Member
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Well again, no shit.
That's why you don't piss off the council when you plan to build a new stadium, and if you do you get moving on it ASAP to account for the delays that might happen.
It's like if I wanted to end my tenancy early, I'm far more likely to be given the leeway if I've got a good relationship with my landlord, but ultimately no matter how much he hates me he can't stop me if I've followed the law.
robbiethemole
Well-Known Member
Just out of interest, does anyone know what happened to the estimated £30m from the deal???? Never been explained clearly where it went
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
I quite like that. Looks to have potential to age in a homely way, too.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
It's law, of course it's open to interpretation. But the point is it's not solely CCC's interpretation. If it was we wouldn't have had a JR and a State Aid case.
As NW says, Sisu are very willing to attempt to push over CCC legally on the Ricoh, but not on the considerably more clear cut example of a stadium.
I've said from the start, my issue was enver with the plan to leave the Ricoh, it's with the total incompetence that plan has been executed. We should've got our ducks in a row, checked to see if there was land available, etc. Instead we went off half cocked in a hare brained attempt to get the Ricoh on the cheap that seven years later hasn't got any further forward. Now we're over a barrel with two organisations that we've spent years pissing off. Amateur hour.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I'll add that if we had gone out and got some land in the six years leading up to us breaking the lease, we'd have been in a far stronger position to strongarm CCC on the Ricoh rental deal or potential ownership. CCC probably don't want another stadium if they can help it, but equally they don't want a very public and protracted planning review that they'd probably lose. Having land an a stadium planning application ready to go when we entered negotiations would've totally changed the dynamic, and at the end of the day land is never really a bad investment.
On another note, have we noticed that the site being talked about a UoW seems to be in the green belt? That's a far easier planning refusal than 'too many stadia' IMO. Would likely require a change of the Warwick local plan. One to question @mark82 ?
Or has HS2 tearing through there changed that?
On another note, have we noticed that the site being talked about a UoW seems to be in the green belt? That's a far easier planning refusal than 'too many stadia' IMO. Would likely require a change of the Warwick local plan. One to question @mark82 ?
Or has HS2 tearing through there changed that?
Because you still have to raise the initial investment and service that debt. It doesn’t matter what’s cheaper in the long run or what might happen in the future. We might be able to go for 25-30k but there is no point us on here treating it as a minimum demand. If we can raise enough capital to finance 25-30k and service the debt then great. But we have to be realistic. We could end up in league 1 again after next season.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
Not just HS2, there's the A46 relief road going through there and other parts of that land Warwick Uni already have plans for.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
That's what my question near the beginning of the thread was about. I had assumed it could be greenbelt.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Couldn't we have a mix? A smaller 'bowl' at the bottom then more four-sided higher up. Corners filled in with corporate/media/offices etc.
B-Ban-Boogie
Well-Known Member
I played there in a Florida State Cup final the week of when they signed Joe Cole.
I obviously wore my Cov shirt and all the Al Lang stadium employees were asking about him and what he was like, thinking i knew him.
*We lost 2-1 ..
B-Ban-Boogie
Well-Known Member
Man.. these grounds are bringing back memories..
I went here in 2012 (could have been later maybe?) with a few guys from England and at half time we go off to the bar and realized 10 minutes later that a mate had left his backpack in the stands.... (with 9/11 still on everyone's mind)
Flew back up the stairs expecting the police to be there and evacuating the place, but luckily got there in time! lol
What i loved about this stadium was that even when you went for a beer or food, the forecourts and walk way was on the second level and went right the way round the stadium, and being open you could still watch the game.
Edit... that top bit is just a walkway with no seating so you can stand there all game with a beer... Obviously we couldn't do that at Cov..lol
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skyblueinBaku
Well-Known Member
I hope not. I hope that he is being kept well away from anything to do with a new stadium.