Council meeting - 18/8 (10 Viewers)

[Nick]

Maybe, maybe not. Certainly prior to Duggins members in the council thought they could ensure an administration and regime change and they couldn’t. But this is the past. Use it to inform and ensure the future looks better but let’s not wallow in it or allow it to infect our future.

Let’s hope heads can work together and get playing back in coventry and then, let’s see if the university thing is for real.

Apart from one of ACL directors involved is running the council?

 

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[tisza]

Just like Joy assumed CCC would fall in line and accept handing over an asset for nothing.

It was a negotiation and we lost out. High reward strategies are also high risk funnily enough.

No point crying over spilt milk. We tried. We failed. Move on and make the best of where we are.

for sure.
The only 2 caveats to that would be SISU not being awake to/ aware of Wasps factor and the 250 year lease option could have been a significant game changer.
Bringing in an out of town sports franchise to "usurp" local team not something many councils would have even considered.
But could SISU have afforded the price anyway? Possibly why Fisher said the deal was expensive as he couldn't factor in a 2nd sports business at the Ricoh.
Still a very expensive deal for Wasps as a sole sports franchise - they'd factored in CCFC having to stay.

 

[tisza]

Maybe, maybe not. Certainly prior to Duggins members in the council thought they could ensure an administration and regime change and they couldn’t. But this is the past. Use it to inform and ensure the future looks better but let’s not wallow in it or allow it to infect our future.

Let’s hope heads can work together and get playing back in coventry and then, let’s see if the university thing is for real.

Maybe a logical thought process at the time was if SISU weren't in the running at the time for the Ricoh at the price it was available at they weren't going to be looking at financing a different stadium/ground.

 

[skybluetony176]

What would you like them to do?

They could at least make an attempt to mediate. They’ve said that they haven’t spoken to the club in six years. Ending that would be a good starting point. They only want to do what’s best for the city afterall . Apparently.

 

[skybluetony176]

Thanks for the update Pete. Did you get to talk about the city of culture having it’s football team a a city of no culture? I see CCFC make a brief appearance on the city of culture TV adds, it won’t look good if we’re still in Birmingham. City of culture events will be ideal stages for organising protests if we’re not back, do they really want that embarrassment?

 

[shmmeee]

for sure.
The only 2 caveats to that would be SISU not being awake to/ aware of Wasps factor and the 250 year lease option could have been a significant game changer.
Bringing in an out of town sports franchise to "usurp" local team not something many councils would have even considered.
But could SISU have afforded the price anyway? Possibly why Fisher said the deal was expensive as he couldn't factor in a 2nd sports business at the Ricoh.
Still a very expensive deal for Wasps as a sole sports franchise - they'd factored in CCFC having to stay.

This “usurp” framing is entirely yours though. Cleary that’s not what the plan was and everyone bar Sisu wants CCFC in the Ricoh alongside Wasps.

Sisu thought they could get cute and got burned. It was a poor tactical move made in haste without any thought as to what else might happen. Their tactics throughout this have been poor. It is what it is, let’s hope they’ve learned their lesson with WDC and do things a bit differently. Then we can all move on.

 

[Grendel]

Did they ever say how much wasps benefit the city as opposed to losing a championship football team?

how much to the the economy is wasps worth?

They did an evaluation when wasps came here and said something ridiculous like one wasps game when they came here for a semi final was worth £6 million to the economy

 

[shmmeee]

They could at least make an attempt to mediate. They’ve said that they haven’t spoken to the club in six years. Ending that would be a good starting point. They only want to do what’s best for the city afterall . Apparently.

They’ve not said that. Reeves has said he hasn’t spoken in six years. TBH I’m not sure they’re the best choice as mediator as they’re hardly neutral in all this. Neither am I sure mediations helps anything. It’s the Ricoh negotiation version of “let’s have a protest because we must *do something*”

This is and always has been down to one of two people having a change of heart: either Wasps decide to let us play there regardless of legal threats or Sisu drop the legal threats. What’s to be mediated?

 

[shmmeee]

They did an evaluation when wasps came here and said something ridiculous like one wasps game when they came here for a semi final was worth £6 million to the economy

EIAs are always such bullshit. If they were true the U.K. GDP would be about 100 times what it is.

 

[clint van damme]

They did an evaluation when wasps came here and said something ridiculous like one wasps game when they came here for a semi final was worth £6 million to the economy

1 game was worth 6 million? Seriously?
That's 180ish quid per head of a sell out.

Fuck me!

 

[shmmeee]

1 game was worth 6 million? Seriously?
That's 180ish quid per head of a sell out.

Fuck me!

No it’ll be “X people come in and that means Y sales and Z jobs and therefore the economy of Coventry will now increase by the GDP of California”.

 

[Grendel]

1 game was worth 6 million? Seriously?
That's 180ish quid per head of a sell out.

Fuck me!

I can’t find the article but It was definitely some outrageous figure

 

[Houchens Head]

Good work Guys. really feel we have a voice at the table representing us. And hats off for representing the SBT peeps.... a collection of oddballs, ranters and experts on all matters ....oh and the odd weirdo

I'll have you know, I may be weird but I'm not odd!

 

[Travs]

This “usurp” framing is entirely yours though. Cleary that’s not what the plan was and everyone bar Sisu wants CCFC in the Ricoh alongside Wasps.

Sisu thought they could get cute and got burned. It was a poor tactical move made in haste without any thought as to what else might happen. Their tactics throughout this have been poor. It is what it is, let’s hope they’ve learned their lesson with WDC and do things a bit differently. Then we can all move on.

* Everyone except SISU and a large percentage of the fans

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Apart from one of ACL directors involved is running the council?

I get that I really do. I asked my friend who has been involved at senior levels in the council and other authorities all his professional career about conflicts of interest being inherently bad and he explained why that wasn’t always the case and I could see his point.

Was the sale in the best interests of acl?
Was it in the best interests of ccc?
...... of ccfc?

Two out of three I reckon

I’ve also been thinking about hindsight and how I use it and how ccc might not see it the same way as me and how hindsight tends to move parties apart than together.

 

[tisza]

This “usurp” framing is entirely yours though. Cleary that’s not what the plan was and everyone bar Sisu wants CCFC in the Ricoh alongside Wasps.

Sisu thought they could get cute and got burned. It was a poor tactical move made in haste without any thought as to what else might happen. Their tactics throughout this have been poor. It is what it is, let’s hope they’ve learned their lesson with WDC and do things a bit differently. Then we can all move on.

Using "usurp" in that the plan was to bring in new owners to move CCFC down the pecking order - not in the sense of removing them completely. I'll stand by CCC (and Wasps) thinking it was a fait accompli and CCFC /SISU would have to suck it up and fall in line as secondary tenants at the Ricoh as they would have nowhere else to go.
Sale to a new non-sporting franchise leaving CCFC as sole tenants would have been a different scenario but obviously wasn't much scope for that.
Only way CCFC could be "alongside" Wasps would have to be a partnership - something none of the sides have ever seemed keen on.

 

[tisza]

They did an evaluation when wasps came here and said something ridiculous like one wasps game when they came here for a semi final was worth £6 million to the economy

so should be easy for them to work out what having CCFC in the city is worth to them based on x games at different levels of attendance eg L1 10k, championship 15k.etc

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Thanks for the update Pete. Did you get to talk about the city of culture having it’s football team a a city of no culture? I see CCFC make a brief appearance on the city of culture TV adds, it won’t look good if we’re still in Birmingham. City of culture events will be ideal stages for organising protests if we’re not back, do they really want that embarrassment?

Some won’t want to hear my answer and marks take would be useful as I’m a sucker on occasion. They desperately desire ccfc playing in Coventry. Can they make it happen? Can they do more to show this is true? Absolutely bloody hell they’ve seemingly done nothing

 

[Grendel]

It’s mentioned here

Wasps set for Ricoh Arena move as council back relocation to Coventry

Wasps' £30million takeover bid for Coventry's Ricoh Arena looks set to receive the green light from politicians in the Midlands city.

www.google.co.uk

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

They’ve not said that. Reeves has said he hasn’t spoken in six years. TBH I’m not sure they’re the best choice as mediator as they’re hardly neutral in all this. Neither am I sure mediations helps anything. It’s the Ricoh negotiation version of “let’s have a protest because we must *do something*”

This is and always has been down to one of two people having a change of heart: either Wasps decide to let us play there regardless of legal threats or Sisu drop the legal threats. What’s to be mediated?

Or both do something to move towards the other

 

[Nick]

I get that I really do. I asked my friend who has been involved at senior levels in the council and other authorities all his professional career about conflicts of interest being inherently bad and he explained why that wasn’t always the case and I could see his point.

Was the sale in the best interests of acl?
Was it in the best interests of ccc?
...... of ccfc?

Two out of three I reckon

I’ve also been thinking about hindsight and how I use it and how ccc might not see it the same way as me and how hindsight tends to move parties apart than together.

What about the forced takeover attempt with Haskell?
What about all the snidey stuff that ACL were up to at the same time?
What about trying to bring Wasps here in 2012?

Reeves was involved all along.

 

[Nick]

Some won’t want to hear my answer and marks take would be useful as I’m a sucker on occasion. They desperately desire ccfc playing in Coventry. Can they make it happen? Can they do more to show this is true? Absolutely bloody hell they’ve seemingly done nothing

Do they actually desire it though? As if you look at what they have said they were more bothered about the Aldi in Bell Green closing.

 

[Legia Sky Blue]

I can’t find the article but It was definitely some outrageous figure

The same applies to any big events. When the Godiva Festival is held in Coventry we will be told it is worth an extortionate amount to the local economy, likewise the the same but at a much higher level when there's a royal wedding in London. The figures normally bandied about include every penny spent in hotels, bars, restaurants etc in the city regardless of whether that money was spent by people wishing to attend those events. so is always misleading and inaccurate.

 

[Covkid1968#]

I'll have you know, I may be weird but I'm not odd!

Sorry HH bit of a typo.....and the old weirdo

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Do they actually desire it though? As if you look at what they have said they were more bothered about the Aldi in Bell Green closing.

I hear what you are saying. That’s why their language and actions need to be aligned and they haven’t been

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

What about the forced takeover attempt with Haskell?
What about all the snidey stuff that ACL were up to at the same time?
What about trying to bring Wasps here in 2012?

Reeves was involved all along.

When was the Haskell stuff?
What specific snidey stuff?
Clearly the deal with wasps was because they couldn’t deal with Sisu and not only did they cover their arses they screwed Sisu over too. Need to move on though don’t they?

Don’t we?

I think things have changed

 

[Grendel]

I hear what you are saying. That’s why their language and actions need to be aligned and they haven’t been

I think the real problem is they don’t want the club back under its current owners

 

[shmmeee]

I think the real problem is they don’t want the club back under its current owners

Utter nonsense.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Thanks for the update Pete. Did you get to talk about the city of culture having it’s football team a a city of no culture? I see CCFC make a brief appearance on the city of culture TV adds, it won’t look good if we’re still in Birmingham. City of culture events will be ideal stages for organising protests if we’re not back, do they really want that embarrassment?

People talk about the CoC thing and the embarassment but totally ignore that last year when we were playing Birmingham Coventry was City of Sport, which is far more relevant to us and far more embarrassing for the council. No-one gave a fuck.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

1 game was worth 6 million? Seriously?
That's 180ish quid per head of a sell out.

Fuck me!

Could be factoring in things like media covering it including TV, which means technicians, analysts, journalists etc having to come here. They will be eating, drinking and possibly staying in hotels etc. It's not just the crowds that generate income.

 

[Grendel]

Could be factoring in things like media covering it including TV, which means technicians, analysts, journalists etc having to come here. They will be eating, drinking and possibly staying in hotels etc. It's not just the crowds that generate income.

It’s bollocks

 

[chiefdave]

Had a responsibility to secure the asset for all Coventrians however much it affected ccfc. Like I say I think he’s wrong but he was adamant.

Why the need to secure an asset that they consistently claimed was performing well and didn't need CCFC as the club was only a small, and largely irrelevant, part of the business? Even when they accounts were published proving Lucas' "washing its face" was nonsense she doubled down on it in an interview with Shane O'Conner and claimed the council made their decisions based on the information passed to them by Reeves.

 

[Esoterica]

Do they actually desire it though? As if you look at what they have said they were more bothered about the Aldi in Bell Green closing.

How would you have approached the meeting? I ask because you come across as annoyed with Pete and Mark for not going into that meeting all guns blazing over stuff that happened years ago now. Do you think that approach would do anything to help get the club back in the city now? If, as you say, CCC don't desire it, nothing Pete and Mark do or say is going to change that.

It was though a rare opportunity to have dialogue with CCC which would have been quickly shut down if they were to just start laying into Reeves for stuff that happened years ago, however bitter we as CCFC supporters feel about it still.

There's only 3 outcomes from that type of meeting:
1.CCC become more entrenched in their views because Mark and Pete start digging up the past and trying to lay blame,
2. Nothing changes at all (which was always the likely outcome)
3. It softens their stance on actually helping to get the club back to the city.

Handling it the way they have was the only way possible way to achieve their goal - of getting the club back to the city, however futile or unlikely that chance is.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I think the real problem is they don’t want the club back under its current owners

And that is a problem cause Sisu don’t seem to be ready to move on any time soon if those opinions of Cllr Mutton and Cllr Lucas still hold sway

 

[chiefdave]

They did an evaluation when wasps came here and said something ridiculous like one wasps game when they came here for a semi final was worth £6 million to the economy

This is an important point. The council can't on one hand make claims like this and then on the other dismiss the impact of us being out of the city.

There's nothing happening at the Ricoh that couldn't have happened with ACL under Higgs & council ownership with the possible exception of Wasps games, if you believe Wasps would only play there as owners. If you net off the alleged benefit of Wasps being here against the loss of the football club it will be a huge negative.

Sure you can say both could co-exist but what was put in place to ensure that was the case? What was put in place in the lease to ensure the football club had the primacy required by EFL and PL rules? What was put in place to ensure Wasps couldn't sack the club off at the end of the existing contract? Clearly nothing.