Council meeting - 18/8 (19 Viewers)

[Nick]

Utter nonsense.

Is it?

 

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[chiefdave]

Could be factoring in things like media covering it including TV, which means technicians, analysts, journalists etc having to come here. They will be eating, drinking and possibly staying in hotels etc. It's not just the crowds that generate income.

But even if you think there's so much media focused on Wasps they have double the number of media personal at their games we will in the Championship they only play half as many games!

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

This is an important point. The council can't on one hand make claims like this and then on the other dismiss the impact of us being out of the city.

There's nothing happening at the Ricoh that couldn't have happened with ACL under Higgs & council ownership with the possible exception of Wasps games, if you believe Wasps would only play there as owners. If you net off the alleged benefit of Wasps being here against the loss of the football club it will be a huge negative.

Sure you can say both could co-exist but what was put in place to ensure that was the case? What was put in place in the lease to ensure the football club had the primacy required by EFL and PL rules? What was put in place to ensure Wasps couldn't sack the club off at the end of the existing contract? Clearly nothing.

They did discuss it and add that it was more of an investment to the City than we were even thinking. That said £20m isn’t much when the annual expenditure is about £400m

I think that’s right the words about not negatively affecting ccfc and crfc meant nothing

 

[Grendel]

And that is a problem cause Sisu don’t seem to be ready to move on any time soon if those opinions of Cllr Mutton and Cllr Lucas still hold sway

Lucas the next major you mean? What does Matons antics on social media also tell you?

 

[Grendel]

Is it?

No it’s clearly factually accurate

 

[chiefdave]

They did discuss it and add that it was more of an investment to the City than we were even thinking.

Did they give any detail? I'm struggling to think of anything Wasps have brought to the city other than 11 Premiership Rugby games a season and a handful of cup games.

The players don't live here, a lot of the staff are from outside the city, the proposed training ground isn't going to be in the city. What is this huge investment in the city Wasps are making that nobody seems to have noticed?

 

[shmmeee]

No it’s clearly factually accurate

Great. Would be nice for you to present some facts for a change. Can’t wait.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Lucas the next major you mean? What does Matons antics on social media also tell you?

He was given short shrift and everyone thinks he’s an idiot but it’s a fair point

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Lucas the next major you mean? What does Matons antics on social media also tell you?

tbf if you were lobbying, you wouldn't waste your time on Maton as he's too far gone. Just let him be the outlier, and make sure he's ranting into an echo chamber.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Did they give any detail? I'm struggling to think of anything Wasps have brought to the city other than 11 Premiership Rugby games a season and a handful of cup games.

The players don't live here, a lot of the staff are from outside the city, the proposed training ground isn't going to be in the city. What is this huge investment in the city Wasps are making that nobody seems to have noticed?

Didn’t discuss what wasps bring to the city.

 

[Grendel]

Great. Would be nice for you to present some facts for a change. Can’t wait.

Well oddly you seem to be unaware of facts

The fiasco around the Haskell debacle
The blatant lies around building bridges and having a face wash
The hell freezing over note
The Two franchises statement
The antics around fishing at the Butts
The obsession with Gidney
The selection of Sisu as the partner of choice

Before Sisu

Rejecting the need for a rental reduction
The damning conclusion reached by Garry Hopkins
The slating of the council in Paul Fletchers book

Need I go on?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

It’s bollocks

I've no doubt the projections were based on best case scenarios, possibly even creative accounting of including everything in the local economy rather than an expected increase over the base.

But the fact is these games recieve wider coverage than normal games do and will require more people to cover them. If that results in people doing something or being somewhere they wouldn't be were it not for that event it has to be linked to the event.

For example if someone from out of town is asked to cover the event and they have to stay in a hotel that hotel stay is only happening because of that game occurring. Similarly any F&B he consumes. If it weren't for the game the person wouldn't be there.

 

[Grendel]

I've no doubt the projections were based on best case scenarios, possibly even creative accounting of including everything in the local economy rather than an expected increase over the base.

But the fact is these games recieve wider coverage than normal games do and will require more people to cover them. If that results in people doing something or being somewhere they wouldn't be were it not for that event it has to be linked to the event.

For example if someone from out of town is asked to cover the event and they have to stay in a hotel that hotel stay is only happening because of that game occurring. Similarly any F&B he consumes. If it weren't for the game the person wouldn't be there.

Well no as most don’t stop in Coventry according to the council - that’s why more hotels need to be built. Everyone who visited our department in JLR we ensured did not stay here. How many of these people do you think there are. It’s nonsense

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

But even if you think there's so much media focused on Wasps they have double the number of media personal at their games we will in the Championship they only play half as many games!

I'm not doing a comparison on what we would get for a game compared to Wasps or whatever, it was about whether the £6m figure was massively overstated and pointing out that it's more than just the fans turning up that affect the local economy. Like having a factory/office open in the area. It's not just those workers that will be added to the economy. There will be supply chain jobs, food outlets from lunch etc that will have a knock on effect.

 

[clint van damme]

No it’ll be “X people come in and that means Y sales and Z jobs and therefore the economy of Coventry will now increase by the GDP of California”.

Wonder what figure the same formula would come up with for 23 football games attended by 20k people?

 

[Grendel]

Wonder what figure the same formula would come up with for 23 football games attended by 20k people?

They’d argue a lot less as most were in the city anyway and so any purchases would have been made anyway

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Did they give any detail? I'm struggling to think of anything Wasps have brought to the city other than 11 Premiership Rugby games a season and a handful of cup games.

The players don't live here, a lot of the staff are from outside the city, the proposed training ground isn't going to be in the city. What is this huge investment in the city Wasps are making that nobody seems to have noticed?

Quite a lot of the Cov players/staff don't live in the city either.

 

[Alan Dugdales Moustache]

Utter nonsense.

The ultimate ironic statement.

 

[win9nut]

everyone bar Sisu wants CCFC in the Ricoh alongside Wasps.

What makes you say this?

 

[shmmeee]

Well oddly you seem to be unaware of facts

The fiasco around the Haskell debacle
The blatant lies around building bridges and having a face wash
The hell freezing over note
The Two franchises statement
The antics around fishing at the Butts
The obsession with Gidney
The selection of Sisu as the partner of choice

Before Sisu

Rejecting the need for a rental reduction
The damning conclusion reached by Garry Hopkins
The slating of the council in Paul Fletchers book

Need I go on?

Right. So nothing then.

Just one piece of evidence the current administration are against CCFC playing in Cov while Sisu are owners will do.

I’m especially enjoying “the selection of Sisu as the partner of choice” as an answer to “please provide evidence they Council don’t want CCFC back under Sisu”.

Most of that list is nothing to do with what you’re asked and half of it is just your opinion. Classic example of the conspiratorial persecution complex some have developed on here mind

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Right. So nothing then.

Just one piece of evidence the current administration are against CCFC playing in Cov while Sisu are owners will do.

I’m especially enjoying “the selection of Sisu as the partner of choice” as an answer to “please provide evidence they Council don’t want CCFC back under Sisu”.

Most of that list is nothing to do with what you’re asked and half of it is just your opinion. Classic example of the conspiratorial persecution complex some have developed on here mind

I think Sisu want ccfc in the Ricoh alongside wasps but it’s not just Sisu that don’t want it as a joint venture hence the proposed new stadium.

 

[shmmeee]

I think even Sisu want ccfc in the Ricoh alongside wasps but it’s not just Sisu that don’t want it as a joint venture hence the proposed new stadium.

Im sure they do. Just not as much as they want to carry on legal action. Just like Wasps do but not as much as they want legal action to stop.

Aa I said I heard rumours Sisu were looking for part ownership in the last round of talks. I’d love to see that but can understand why Wasps wouldn’t want it even if Sisu weren’t there. I think that ship has sailed after the club refusing to engage seriously for years.

We’ll see on the stadium. If it happens, great. We can all move on. If we keep playing this ridiculous game of trying to distress others by hiding in Brum, well.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Im sure they do. Just not as much as they want to carry on legal action. Just like Wasps do but not as much as they want legal action to stop.

Aa I said I heard rumours Sisu were looking for part ownership in the last round of talks. I’d love to see that but can understand why Wasps wouldn’t want it even if Sisu weren’t there. I think that ship has sailed after the club refusing to engage seriously for years.

We’ll see on the stadium. If it happens, great. We can all move on. If we keep playing this ridiculous game of trying to distress others by hiding in Brum, well.

I’m not sure wasps ever wanted it but business is strange and I completely agree with you if either party is still pursuing the path of distressing the other then it’s become bananas

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I’m not sure wasps ever wanted it but business is strange and I completely agree with you if either party is still pursuing the path of distressing the other then it’s become bananas

Become?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Become?

I don’t know how these things work and I assume distressing other businesses works otherwise companies wouldn’t try it. So become for me maybe for others more moral or wise it always was bananas

 

[shmmeee]

I don’t know how these things work and I assume distressing other businesses works otherwise companies wouldn’t try it. So become for me maybe for others more moral or wise it always was bananas

It’s business innit? Not to us mind, bit more important than that to us.

 

[tisza]

I’m not sure wasps ever wanted it but business is strange and I completely agree with you if either party is still pursuing the path of distressing the other then it’s become bananas

Wasps didn't want it which is why they went down the bond route in the first place. It's sole ownership that basically underwrites the finances of the bond as it stands. A large chunk of the bond went to clearing the 2 large loans.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

It’s business innit? Not to us mind, bit more important than that to us.

Yep course I hear you I always have

 

[mark82]

Had a responsibility to secure the asset for all Coventrians however much it affected ccfc. Like I say I think he’s wrong but he was adamant.

Sorry, just catching up on this thread. To add to the above they kept reiterating that CCFC, and Tim Fisher in particular, was insistent at the time that CCFC would build their own stadium.

Again, I don't buy it personally as there was evidence of them trying to attract Wasps prior to the rent disagreements. I think CCFC did play right into their hands though.

 

[shmmeee]

Sorry, just catching up on this thread. To add to the above they kept reiterating that CCFC, and Tim Fisher in particular, was insistent at the time that CCFC would build their own stadium.

Again, I don't buy it personally as there was evidence of them trying to attract Wasps prior to the rent disagreements. I think CCFC did play right into their hands though.

We tried to play too clever. If the club had been clear about wanting to exercise their option or match any offer to Wasps or whatever the public pressure to sell to CCFC over Wasps would’ve been huge. True or not they handed the council an easy out to say “they don’t want it”. It’s right there in the reasoning given to the full council meeting. CCFC weren’t seen as a serious option.

Said it before, say it again, play stupid games win stupid prizes.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Sorry, just catching up on this thread. To add to the above they kept reiterating that CCFC, and Tim Fisher in particular, was insistent at the time that CCFC would build their own stadium.

Again, I don't buy it personally as there was evidence of them trying to attract Wasps prior to the rent disagreements. I think CCFC did play right into their hands though.

As it would have been ACL owning Wasps at that time, our option would have therefore also included owning half of Wasps

 

[tisza]

As it would have been ACL owning Wasps at that time, our option would have therefore also included owning half of Wasps

ACL owning Wasps??

 

[Nick]

We tried to play too clever. If the club had been clear about wanting to exercise their option or match any offer to Wasps or whatever the public pressure to sell to CCFC over Wasps would’ve been huge. True or not they handed the council an easy out to say “they don’t want it”. It’s right there in the reasoning given to the full council meeting. CCFC weren’t seen as a serious option.

Said it before, say it again, play stupid games win stupid prizes.

They did?

PWKH had no intention of ever selling anything to CCFC.

 

[Grendel]

They did?

PWKH had no intention of ever selling anything to CCFC.

Of course he didn’t and even if he did the council veto would have been applied