Another one lost (10 Viewers)

[Grendel]

At what point would you ever judge him by results or do you think we should just employ him for ever Don?

 

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[jabharty]

Thorn continued: 'Tim's still assured me that he is doing all he can to get the embargo lifted and finally I'll be able to wheel and deal for the players we need to get us out of this dogfight. As soon as it's lifted, bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang bang, we'll be firing our way up the table.'

Although, after this positive spin on events, Thorn was soon told that it was October, and that no new players could be brought in. He then took fisher by the throat, and everyone cheered.

 

[dongonzalos]

As above grendel, if we lose the players I think we will. If we then only get 0 to 4 replacements I expect to get relegated. Then it becomes very hard to judge.

If it looks to me like the team then are not trying. If he repeatedly has better players on the bench than those on the pitch. That's probably about the only time, in those circumstances I could. Or if you start hearing loads of murmurings of discontent from the changing room

 

[Grendel]

As above grendel, if we lose the players I think we will. If we then only get 0 to 4 replacements I expect to get relegated. Then it becomes very hard to judge.

If it looks to me like the team then are not trying. If he repeatedly has better players on the bench than those on the pitch. That's probably about the only time, in those circumstances I could. Or if you start hearing loads of murmurings of discontent from the changing room

My point is though at done point whatever mitigation there had to be a tipping point by which time we then make a change just to see of it can make a difference . There has to be a point when that comes.

 

[dongonzalos]

I think that change would then be carsley. Which would be the ruin of another young English manager. IMO. Just think in the current business plan. Until you hit league 2, which is where are youngsters may shine you are on a hiding to nothing as a manager.

Unless SISU surprise and invest money in a new manager instead of promoting from within.

Are you sure you are not a bloke called KDuffy in disguise

 

[Grendel]

I think that change would then be carsley. Which would be the ruin of another young English manager. IMO. Just think in the current business plan. Until you hit league 2, which is where are youngsters may shine you are on a hiding to nothing as a manager.

Unless SISU surprise and invest money in a new manager instead of promoting from within.

Are you sure you are nit a bloke called KDuffy in disguise

Did you not get my PM? There's no disguise just an issue with done new work software. I am hoping this is a temporary incarnation - though if you did not get my PM it's still not working properly.

 

[dongonzalos]

Ha ha, no, no new message. Really is this you! Or are you winding me up. Thats very funny. I genuinely had no idea

 

[wingy]

Don't know why but i have a feeling another of our posters has developed a multiple personality ,it is entertaining to say the least .At the height of our shitenss during the season a poll or two were conducted on here ,a sample of roughly 100 people who are motivated enough to come on here to ruminate over CCFC took part . The breakdown roughly 60/40 in the negative towards Thorn. The many circular discussions on the subject seemed at times to favour the naysayers ,however as now the trolling by a few posters on a profligate scale gives the impression of an overall majority opposed to Thorn,alas they're giving themselves likes for their own oppinion.During the season there was not one occassion where the fans turned on the manager or team which obviously provides the only true measure of opinion


EDIT ;DARN you KD you outed yourself just as i wrote the expose.

 

[Grendel]

Ha ha, no, no new message. Really is this you! Or are you winding me up. Thats very funny. I genuinely had no idea

Yes and it's no wind up. I have been unable to properly access for a week except by phone. I think I know why and what to do but can't look at it until Thursday. I can't keep using the phone so had to change e mail address and therefore user name. Wasn't trying to trick you - thought the sisu dollar comment would have give it away.

 

[dongonzalos]

Ha ha, thought u had been a bit quite recently. I have to use the phone a lot which is a pain. The predictive text is a nightmare.

Hope you get it sorted.

I thought your son had come on here. I was struggling to comprehend that someone else could possibly have such outlandish views

 

[Grendel]

Ha ha, thought u had been a bit quite recently. I have to use the phone a lot which is a pain. The predictive text is a nightmare.

Hope you get it sorted.

I thought your son had come on here. I was struggling to comprehend that someone else could possibly have such outlandish views

I hope I get it back - what do I do about the 14,132 likes I have received?

 

[dongonzalos]

Ha ha, fair comment

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Expect he had the lowest budget of any of the Premiership sides last season, though Lambert may have ran him close.

According to MMM, budget is all though, if you have a bottom three budget, then it doesn't matter who you are, you will finish in the bottom three.

Plenty of teams disprove that.

No. You obviously don't read. Let's try again.

There is, across sport, a huge correlation between investment and performance. Some teams buck the trend, but they're exceptions. There may be 'plenty' although you're stretching it to use that particular word. There are some. I agree with that.

My point is whether you, or anyone else has the right to expect someone to over perform; and judge them poorly if they can't do the exceptional.

My view is that you can't.

It's the same point I've made a hundred times, but I'd you're still struggling I'll happily draw pictures

 

[Grendel]

No. You obviously don't read. Let's try again.

There is, across sport, a huge correlation between investment and performance. Some teams buck the trend, but they're exceptions. There may be 'plenty' although you're stretching it to use that particular word. There are some. I agree with that.

My point is whether you, or anyone else has the right to expect someone to over perform; and judge them poorly if they can't do the exceptional.

My view is that you can't.

It's the same point I've made a hundred times, but I'd you're still struggling I'll happily draw pictures

So in your view if the budget was deemed not likely to achieve good performance you would stick with the same manager until that changed - even if it was a decade - regardless of what the league position of the club was. 10 relegations later you still would not want a change?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

But what is the relevance of context?

At what point does context become irrelevant and the view is we need a change of manager to see if it makes a difference? You cannot for certain say that a new manager would not have made a difference no one can

The relevance of context is to understand if that if our peers have bigger squads of better players, they're ever liable to do better than us. That's to understand our context without our contemporaries.

So you advocate changing managers to see if it makes a difference. Might we not be better served by giving our existing manager at least a mid-table budget and line up, and seeing of he does better or worse than mid-table? Then we'll know of he's good or bad before throwing yet another onto the scrap heap. I think we're tried that one before, and it's led us to a spiral of ever-diminishing returns. Still, great idea. No, really...

 

[SydneySkyBlue]

Remember when Norwich got relegated and lost their first game 7 or 8-1. :laugh:

I remember this. They lost 7-1 to local 'minnows' Colchester who they then poached Paul Lambert from and the rest is history. Funny how things turn out. I just can't see any upturn in our fortunes until we are run by football people.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

So in your view if the budget was deemed not likely to achieve good performance you would stick with the same manager until that changed - even if it was a decade - regardless of what the league position of the club was. 10 relegations later you still would not want a change?

That's no more a crazed notion than ridding yourself of a manager who's never had the resources to prove himself or not.

That's like hiring a brickie, only giving his potatoes to build with and then sacking him when your wall falls over

 

[Grendel]

The relevance of context is to understand if that if our peers have bigger squads of better players, they're ever liable to do better than us. That's to understand our context without our contemporaries.

So you advocate changing managers to see if it makes a difference. Might we not be better served by giving our existing manager at least a mid-table budget and line up, and seeing of he does better or worse than mid-table? Then we'll know of he's good or bad before throwing yet another onto the scrap heap. I think we're tried that one before, and it's led us to a spiral of ever-diminishing returns. Still, great idea. No, really...

Well he has credentials....the guy who managed the club for 11 games in 1917 had a worse win ratio though with conscription I guess he really did have to play children.

Yes lets stick with the worst manager in 95 years great idea, really.

 

[Grendel]

That's no more a crazed notion than ridding yourself of a manager who's never had the resources to prove himself or not.

That's like hiring a brickie, only giving his potatoes to build with and then sacking him when your wall falls over

Except the brickie in question isn't one at all is he? He's not even a hod carrier.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Except the brickie in question isn't one at all is he? He's not even a hod carrier.

I think you'll find he is now

 

[SydneySkyBlue]

Is kduffy now Grendel?

 

[Grendel]

I think you'll find he is now

Oh yes got his badges - wonderful I am sure that will make all the difference. I don't care what quality bricks AT has got I wouldn't want him to build my house I'd feel safer in a tent put up in the middle of the M6.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

Oh yes got his badges - wonderful I am sure that will make all the difference. I don't care what quality bricks AT has got I wouldn't want him to build my house I'd feel safer in a tent put up in the middle of the M6.

I'm happy to help you with that move....

 

[Grendel]

Is kduffy now Grendel?

There is no secret a slight technical hitch - I am hardly hiding my identity am I?

 

[Grendel]

I'm happy to help you with that move....

I'll let AT help me he wouldn't even find the M6 not even from the Ricoh.

 

[lordsummerisle]

No. You obviously don't read. Let's try again.

There is, across sport, a huge correlation between investment and performance. Some teams buck the trend, but they're exceptions. There may be 'plenty' although you're stretching it to use that particular word. There are some. I agree with that.

My point is whether you, or anyone else has the right to expect someone to over perform; and judge them poorly if they can't do the exceptional.

My view is that you can't.

It's the same point I've made a hundred times, but I'd you're still struggling I'll happily draw pictures

But what is your point? Once or a hundred times still difficult to see that it is anythiung more than:

Budget = Success

Whoever has the most money will win, the least will lose, and managers are irrelevant.

It is valid though, which explains why Leicester and West Ham walked away with the Championship last season, and why Swansea and Norwich are back down, after Newcastle narrowly avoided the drop.

Do you have some crayons handy?

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

But what is your point? Once or a hundred times still difficult to see that it is anythiung more than:

Budget = Success

Whoever has the most money will win, the least will lose, and managers are irrelevant.

It is valid though, which explains why Leicester and West Ham walked away with the Championship last season, and why Swansea and Norwich are back down, after Newcastle narrowly avoided the drop.

Do you have some crayons handy?

Look at the top two divisions; no, make that most divisions in Europe The teams who spend the most succeed. There are exceptions in both directions, but it's about 15% of the league. Which is why they're known as exceptions. Following so far?

But you don't have the right to expect an exception. Statistically, it'll be every one in 7 or 8 managers. Exceptions. Exceptional. You have no right to rule someone as poor f they're not exceptional

 

[lordsummerisle]

Look at the top two divisions; no, make that most divisions in Europe The teams who spend the most succeed. There are exceptions in both directions, but it's about 15% of the league. Which is why they're known as exceptions. Following so far?

But you don't have the right to expect an exception. Statistically, it'll be every one in 7 or 8 managers. Exceptions. Exceptional. You have no right to rule someone as poor f they're not exceptional

So if our budget is reasonable in League One terms, then any success will not be due to Thorn, but to Sisu?

Can see that line going down well on here.

 

[Mary_Mungo_Midge]

So if our budget is reasonable in League One terms, then any success will not be due to Thorn, but to Sisu?

Can see that line going down well on here.

Again, to reiterate what I've offered before; if SISU fund the squad sufficient to give a mid-table position, them we can truly assess how he performs. If we bomb-out, then everyone who always asserted he was poor would be proven right. If he overerforms, then those who claimed he was the messiah could equally do so. If mid-table investment leads to mid-table obscurity, then he's nothing special. At least he'd been given a fighting chance.

It may be a controversial statement, but if SISU fund a promotion possible squad, then they do deserve some credit; albeit tempered by that which has gone before, and some sadness that they could - and should - have done it sooner.

However, the signs right now with regards funding don't look promising. But I remain hopeful, probably very naively, that things will change

 

[Astute]

Yes and it's no wind up. I have been unable to properly access for a week except by phone. I think I know why and what to do but can't look at it until Thursday. I can't keep using the phone so had to change e mail address and therefore user name. Wasn't trying to trick you - thought the sisu dollar comment would have give it away.

what kind of phone do you use? You managed to "like" a post yesterday. I have two phones and can't do that. Am on here on my phone whilst at work half of the time so could do with a phone like you have

 

[Grendel]

what kind of phone do you use? You managed to "like" a post yesterday. I have two phones and can't do that. Am on here on my phone whilst at work half of the time so could do with a phone like you have

Like under my other ID?

 

[WillieStanley]

what kind of phone do you use? You managed to "like" a post yesterday. I have two phones and can't do that. Am on here on my phone whilst at work half of the time so could do with a phone like you have

I do most of my SBTing on my phone. I've just switched to Desktop Version, which enables me to "like" posts.

 

[Astute]

Like under my other ID?

Yes..........

 

[Grendel]

Yes..........

Odd I thought I last used Sunday. I can use it but it creates some issues with my work firewall and have to keep switching it on and off. Do you know if you can change a user ID's e-mail account - it is that that is the problem - I need to use a private account.

 

[Astute]

Odd I thought I last used Sunday. I can use it but it creates some issues with my work firewall and have to keep switching it on and off. Do you know if you can change a user ID's e-mail account - it is that that is the problem - I need to use a private account.

On playing staff thread where you agreed with LBB as usual :thinking about::claping hands: