Teflon AT - a great position for him (1 Viewer)

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shy_tall_knight

Well-Known Member
AT did show in the last few months of 2010/11 that he may have the credentials to be a good manager as he turned around a poorly performing team. Whilst I will give him credit for this I do believe a lot of it was due to the relief from the players at moving away from hoofball played under AB

We started the season with a relegation doomed squad, the 2 goalies with no outfield recruitment I assume was SISU's fault. The decisions to sell our top scorer at Xmas again would have been Shitsu's call. So as expected we were relegated. AT may be considered to have over achieved with the tools he had available. So unlike Donny & Pompey - our manager was there for the full season - but there is no clamour for his head yes he made some mistakes but we all look at the bigger picture its Shitsu's fault - can't blame AT -virtually untouchable, if we have another poor season and SISU are in charge it will be groundhog day not AT's fault, look at the under investment etc...

whilst I share a lot of the above views and have partial sympathy I would still like him to be booted in favour of Lee Carsley:

AT may not have the personality, strength of character to turn the team around.
His playing style in the first half of the season of tippy tappy was pointless and only when we went more direct did it yield more wins
management of Clingan and Eastwood - if they had been effectively managed may have made us a better team
AT looks like a slob can't think of any other managers who look so unfit
His interviews are so dull and predictable - fear his team talks are similar
If as expected its another poor season why not give Carsley ago, if it doesn't work out then we can use the same excuses as we do for AT. but Carsley may be able to get more out the players than AT and as expected we will be using the youth team - who knows them better than Carsley.
 
Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
Thanks for showing us you got your user name from what you know......shite all knight :eek: ;)

So when is the takeover happening that you told us about? :laugh:
 
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kingharvest

New Member
I don't get this. You want to get rid of an inexperienced manager who at least has now had a season and a quarter in charge of these players, and who has clearly shown signs of learning during that time - and replace him with someone who only retired from playing 1 year ago and who has no experience of managing?

Its a massive risk isn't it? Its also another managerial change. I'm not saying that at some point Carsley won't be a suitable candidate, and who knows - if we start badly it might not be long before he has to take the job. But right now, I just don't see any reasonable argument as to why he should be given a chance ahead of Thorn.
 
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shy_tall_knight

Well-Known Member
I think you confuse me with the dark knight. Teflon AT - how bad will results allowed to be before he is relieved of his duties, Liverpool got rid of virtually untouchable Dalglish who had a similar reign to AT.

Recognise its not all his fault but also he may not be a very good manager.
 
Disorganised1

Disorganised1

New Member
Way things are going we'll need Carsley to play.
 
D

dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
Its weird, I love debating, but I have to say even I am bored with this one.

AT gets no signings, we go down, that is expected. We are stuck with the same debate.
AT gets the players the majority think we need to stay up, and we either do or get relegated (personally 4-7)
AT gets the players to push for playoff and suceeds or fails. (personally 7-10)

Maybe we should have a poll the week before kick off and see what the majority, now think he needs signing wise to finish in certain areas of the division.
 
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shy_tall_knight

Well-Known Member
I think AT is a slow learner, the style of football took too long to change last year. I don't think there will be many new faces to excite the fans and maybe Carsley could reignite the club / fans / players - AT nice guy, dealt a poor hand etc.. just lacks inspiration and doesn't seem to be under the same pressure as other managers - not a healthy position (the situation that is not his cholesterol levels).
 
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dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
shy_tall_knight said:
I think you confuse me with the dark knight. Teflon AT - how bad will results allowed to be before he is relieved of his duties, Liverpool got rid of virtually untouchable Dalglish who had a similar reign to AT.

Recognise its not all his fault but also he may not be a very good manager.
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Similar reign?

Oh I see what you mean. Dalglish took over turned the club fortunes round. Then they sold or allowed to leave Reina, Carragher, Gerrard, Torres against his wishes

And replaced them with 2 goalkeeprs and a half fit striker.

Hang on actually, I think Dalgish may have spent 100 million?
 
Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
shy_tall_knight said:
I think you confuse me with the dark knight. Teflon AT - how bad will results allowed to be before he is relieved of his duties, Liverpool got rid of virtually untouchable Dalglish who had a similar reign to AT.

Recognise its not all his fault but also he may not be a very good manager.
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As you say may not......don't disagree there, but he also might be a decent manager if he has a big enough squad to cover injuries/suspensions. Might also be good enough if he don't keep losing our best strikers.....you know the players that score goals. Did you know that you need to score to win?
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
dongonzalos said:
Its weird, I love debating, but I have to say even I am bored with this one.
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I'm bored with AT. Bored with his mind numbing interviews (oh forgot that is made up by the CET), bored with his SISU worshipping, bored with his boring playing style. Time for a change.
 
Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
Boring playing style? Time to bring AB back?
 
Astute

Astute

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
AB would have kept us up last season.
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The same as he was going to keep us up when we got rid of him? He had a choice of players including King. We had lucky wins at the start of the season. After this we slipped down the table. Who would have scored playing hoofball? Oh yes we had Platt :pointlaugh:
 
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shy_tall_knight

Well-Known Member
So is AT a good manager ? - I think the majority would say either yes if he had the players or don't know.

So AT is on a poor contract, with a club in crisis then surely he will be headhunted to a club which his management skills deserve or those in the not sure camp - then they surely would give another unproven manager a chance.

If Paul Lambert was our manager I doubt we would have been relegated last season, no evidence to suggest Carsley is the next Paul L but we all know AT isn't. This AT's last job in football management not because he will be in charge for the next 20 years but because no other club will have him.
 
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dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
I'm bored with AT. Bored with his mind numbing interviews (oh forgot that is made up by the CET), bored with his SISU worshipping, bored with his boring playing style. Time for a change.
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You have to admit Kduffy, It is rare now that a new point comes out in the debate.
 
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kingharvest

New Member
I think i disagree that no-one would have him. People often admire managers who try and play the right way. He also is well regarded as a scout across the leagues - i reckon if he wanted to carry on as manager, someone would give him a chance somewhere.
 
Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
In the year 2020 when we playing in-front of 15 people on a Sunday morning, facing yet another relegation, people will still hark back to the mythical 10 games in 2011 and those 2 or 3 wins. Thorn will give a cheery wave to his die-hard followers who will clap like seals as he then wheels out more excuses, he will then threaten to resign for the 74th time unless SISU sort of the club.

Using this logic, then we should have given every other manager we have had more backing due to their honeymoon period.
 
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Ashdown

Well-Known Member
I talk to plenty of supporters from other teams and none of them see why we should blame the manager for last seasons debacle. Yes he made mistakes and yes we let in too many late goals but to bring through so many youngsters in having had the guts ripped out of your side was an achievement in itself...................As for the interviews, what the hell could he say that wouldn't have lost him his job. SISU have fucked me over, the club over, you the fans over.........................and I'll just get me coat !!!
 
Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
Grendel said:
I'm bored with AT. Bored with his mind numbing interviews (oh forgot that is made up by the CET), bored with his SISU worshipping, bored with his boring playing style. Time for a change.
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What baffles me is that people are so anti-SISU, yet pro Thorn. If they genuinely believe he is as good as they say he is then they should applaud SISU for at least getting something right surely? No one else would have stuck by him for so long, yet I have never heard someone praise SISU for keeping him on.

'LOVE THORN-LOVE SISU'
 
C

cheever

New Member
This perception that things under AT improved is largely misguided...here's the facts:

  • Matches played prior to the New Year (24 games ) - 19 points
  • Matches played prior after the New Year (22 games ) - 21 points
To break the seaon down into quarters (roughly)

  • 1st 11 games - 10 points
  • 2nd 11 games - 3 points
  • 3rd 12 games - 15 points
  • 4th 12 games - 12 points
  • Last 6 games - 1 point.
Where is the 'we improved as the season went on' in those stats???? :(
 
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shy_tall_knight

Well-Known Member
I've enjoyed this debate and must go now but as much as AT has had poor circumstances to deal with he is not beyond criticism nor the sack. We are starting a new era and I don't believe he is the right man.
 
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dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
Sick Boy said:
What baffles me is that people are so anti-SISU, yet pro Thorn. If they genuinely believe he is as good as they say he is then they should applaud SISU for at least getting something right surely? No one else would have stuck by him for so long, yet I have never heard someone praise SISU for keeping him on.

'LOVE THORN-LOVE SISU'
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Of course when Ray Ranson recommended him as manager most of the board would not have understood what he had done with Ray as chief scout in signing some great young players.
 
K

kingharvest

New Member
cheever said:
This perception that things under AT improved is largely misguided...here's the facts:

  • Matches played prior to the New Year (24 games ) - 19 points
  • Matches played prior after the New Year (22 games ) - 21 points
To break the seaon down into quarters (roughly)

  • 1st 11 games - 10 points
  • 2nd 11 games - 3 points
  • 3rd 12 games - 15 points
  • 4th 12 games - 12 points
  • Last 6 games - 1 point.
Where is the 'we improved as the season went on' in those stats???? :(
Click to expand...

Thats interesting actually. I've never seen it broken down like that - Dreadful 2nd Quarter and final 6 games really cost us. We all know we totally fell away in those last 6 games, but that 2nd period where we got 3 points from 11 games is dreadful. Small margins and all that.
 
SkyBlue_Bear83

SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
cheever said:
This perception that things under AT improved is largely misguided...here's the facts:

  • Matches played prior to the New Year (24 games ) - 19 points
  • Matches played prior after the New Year (22 games ) - 21 points
To break the seaon down into quarters (roughly)

  • 1st 11 games - 10 points
  • 2nd 11 games - 3 points
  • 3rd 12 games - 15 points
  • 4th 12 games - 12 points
  • Last 6 games - 1 point.
Where is the 'we improved as the season went on' in those stats???? :(
Click to expand...
The facts are the last 2 of those first 24 we won, so you could easily present the facts as Kingharvest has. We did improve greatly from Christmas day up till the start of April where we faded miserably in the last 6 games.
 
SkyBlue_Bear83

SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
If we start next season dreadfully I would sack Thorn, if after 15 games we look like being relegated I would replace him. It may not be his fault but there has to be a point where you say lets see if someone else can get more out of the current players even if it is unlikely.
 
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dongonzalos

Well-Known Member
CCFC said:
The facts are the last 2 of those first 24 we won, so you could easily present the facts as Kingharvest has. We did improve greatly from Christmas day up till the start of April where we faded miserably in the last 6 games.
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What hapened in those last 6 games.................

Did AT make shocking tactical decisions leaving out our best players or playing them in the wrong positions?

or

Did some of the players who had got us on the good run get injured and were either unable to play or had to play with those injuries, because we had no decent back up?

Hence leading to SISU saying we hold our hands up we left the squad to thin?
 
SkyBlue_Bear83

SkyBlue_Bear83

Well-Known Member
dongonzalos said:
What hapened in those last 6 games.................

Did AT make shocking tactical decisions leaving out our best players or playing them in the wrong positions?

or

Did some of the players who had got us on the good run get injured and were either unable to play or had to play with those injuries, because we had no decent back up?

Hence leading to SISU saying we hold our hands up we left the squad to thin?
Click to expand...
It was a combination of injuries/fatigue and some bad finishing in the games vs Peterborugh/Doncaster/Millwall

Not sure what your point is I was defending Thorn saying we did improve in the second half of the season.
 
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