Brought on by winning, or by coaching? (9 Viewers)

[Deleted member 5849]

One thing that has changed the past few years under Robins, if we go behind, we don't fold - you can be fairly confident we have a chance of coming back.

Now, it's been a while since I can remember that - even when we were the better side first time down in the second tier, once we went ahead we'd sit back to try and defend our lead, change our positions, give up the advantage.

So it's a winning mentality instilled.

But is that because we got to a level where winning could become the habit? Does success breed success? Or is it specifically something changed by the manager?

 

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[covcity4life]

Both

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

One thing that has changed the past few years under Robins, if we go behind, we don't fold - you can be fairly confident we have a chance of coming back.

Now, it's been a while since I can remember that - even when we were the better side first time down in the second tier, once we went ahead we'd sit back to try and defend our lead, change our positions, give up the advantage.

So it's a winning mentality instilled.

But is that because we got to a level where winning could become the habit? Does success breed success? Or is it specifically something changed by the manager?

When you see out a hard fought win you a) gain experience of doing it and b) have belief you can. Conversely if you chuck a few games away it instils nervousness. What's also been pleasing is how we've reacted to conceding, it wasn't long ago that going behind meant the game was over

 

[fernandopartridge]

When you see out a hard fought win you a) gain experience of doing it and b) have belief you can. Conversely if you chuck a few games away it instils nervousness. What's also been pleasing is how we've reacted to conceding, it wasn't long ago that going behind meant the game was over

As I've said on my thread that's the first game we've came from behind to win in the Championship since 2009, or 150 games or so at that level

 

[Liquid Gold]

"Let's take relegation form the Premiership to Division One so we can remember how to be a winning team again"

It took 18 years and relegation to League 2 but we did it eventually.

 

[Philosoraptor]

Never underestimate the power of subjectivity in sport.

Or in other words, don't be a Siegbert Tarrasch. Games are much more than just reaching specific objective goals.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

"Let's take relegation form the Premiership to Division One so we can remember how to be a winning team again"

It took 18 years and relegation to League 2 but we did it eventually.

That first year in the championship was so frustrating. Countless examples of games where we started well, got the first goal... then retreated into our shells as though we were playing Man Utd rather than Barnsley.

Similar happens the other way, of course. The great Liverpool and Man Utd teams gained a fair few points because some teams were beaten before they went out, and just aimed to limit the score. Once that aura was gone, they attacked a bit more, and shocks happened.

This thread could have been more apt after Bristol City tbf. Now there was a game with a truly terrible start and, it'd have been easy for it to be same old city - but we've shown some strength of character, belief in ourselves.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Never underestimate the power of subjectivity in sport.

Or in other words, don't be a Siegbert Tarrasch. Games are much more than just reaching specific objective goals.

In the US where sports are a lot more analytical. The NFL for instance where draft prospects take part in the combine where they analyse how quickly they can run 40 yards or how high they can jump, their footwork. They call the other stuff the 'intangibles' something you can't put oa number on, work ethic attitude, winning mentality etc. I think we have the intangibles in abundance in this squad now.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

As I've said on my thread that's the first game we've came from behind to win in the Championship since 2009, or 150 games or so at that level

It's taken going down to the bottom tier to sort our shit out. And we've done it with no favours from anyone else either

 

[Philosoraptor]

In the US where sports are a lot more analytical. The NFL for instance where draft prospects take part in the combine where they analyse how quickly they can run 40 yards or how high they can jump, their footwork. They call the other stuff the 'intangibles' something you can't put oa number on, work ethic attitude, winning mentality etc. I think we have the intangibles in abundance in this squad now.

Two secs, going to find a link to Lasker's Manual of Chess again. It really is ancient but it also covers a lot of the basic areas.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

It's taken going down to the bottom tier to sort our shit out. And we've done it with no favours from anyone else either

Momentum's a fine thing, but the challenge of management will be to keep that belief in the squad, when we end up midtable at best rather than one of the better sides. We'll have to make sure we don't end up with momentum in the other direction!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Momentum's a fine thing, but the challenge of management will be to keep that belief in the squad, when we end up midtable at best rather than one of the better sides. We'll have to make sure we don't end up with momentum in the other direction!

Mid table this season would be stunning. Brentford have shown how you press on from there

 

[Philosoraptor]

In the US where sports are a lot more analytical. The NFL for instance where draft prospects take part in the combine where they analyse how quickly they can run 40 yards or how high they can jump, their footwork. They call the other stuff the 'intangibles' something you can't put oa number on, work ethic attitude, winning mentality etc. I think we have the intangibles in abundance in this squad now.

http://www.simardartizanfarm.ca/pdf/-_Lasker_s_Manual_of_Chess.pdf

Reading the appreciation at the beginning of the book explains the concept around the basic ideas of thought between Subjective and Objective thinking and how we need both.

Everyone has a unique perspective on the World, and this is a good thing as well. Would be boring as anything if we all thought the same.

 

[usskyblue]

We’re Coventry fans, we have trust issues.

Yes there’s been some personnel mistakes but that’s to be expected. However, I believe in this manager and this squad. I haven’t been able to say that since 1987.

That’s why the moaning on match threads pisses me off (I’m speaking only for myself).
It’s like no one has learned to trust MR and the team. MR said what we all knew (and I specifically said) during the first half. They were a good side, they showed their experience and skill at this higher level. They were expansive and we couldn’t touch them.

But.

We were also still in the game and I knew if we learned from the first half and made the adjustments, we are not only as good as them, we are better than them. We did that and we were.

We are in the Championship by merit and we belong here. Have a bit of faith.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

http://www.simardartizanfarm.ca/pdf/-_Lasker_s_Manual_of_Chess.pdf

Reading the appreciation at the beginning of the book explains the concept around the basic ideas of thought between Subjective and Objective thinking and how we need both.

Everyone has a unique perspective on the World, and this is a good thing as well. Would be boring as anything if we all thought the same.

Let's play a game some time.

 

[Tommo1993]

Was saying last night that we always seem to wait for the right moment to release the ball since the start of last season.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Mid table this season would be stunning. Brentford have shown how you press on from there

I'm very optimistic from the two games we've played that we could achieve it. Bristol City may have finished 12th but they were solidly in the playoffs all of last season. QPR were a true mid table team. We lost away to City because of our own errors then we beat QPR. Outclassed them both for long periods, young squad that's improving and adjusting.

I don't doubt we'll get a couple of pastings this year but keep to our system and believe in what we do and we can be fine. Also I think the league is weaker that it is most years, I'm confident of us finishing above the majority of Wycombe, Rotherham, Sheff Wed, Barnsley, Luton and there is always a team that should be mid table but implodes.

 

[Liquid Gold]

We’re Coventry fans, we have trust issues.

Yes there’s been some personnel mistakes but that’s to be expected. However, I believe in this manager and this squad. I haven’t been able to say that since 1987.

That’s why the moaning on match threads pisses me off (I’m speaking only for myself).
It’s like no one has learned to trust MR and the team. MR said what we all knew (and I specifically said) during the first half. They were a good side, they showed their experience and skill at this higher level. They were expansive and we couldn’t touch them.

But.

We were also still in the game and I knew if we learned from the first half and made the adjustments, we are not only as good as them, we are better than them. We did that and we were.

We are in the Championship by merit and we belong here. Have a bit of faith.

I don't think the talk is a lack of faith it's just honest appraisal of where we can improve. It's exactly what MR and the coaching staff will be doing.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I don't doubt we'll get a couple of pastings this year but keep to our system and believe in what we do and we can be fine.

That'll be the challenge though. At the moment we've had two, three seasons of being expected to win, and being confident enough that we can win.

What we need to do is keep that, even when we're less good, relatively, to the division we're in. tbf what Robins did spectacularly well was transfer that to the division above after our first promotion (midtable last season would have been an achievement!) but obviously the more defeats you have, the more of a challenge it becomes to keep your belief.

What you don't want, is the curve to flatten, and then we decline again. Got to capitalise and keep pushing forwards.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I'm very optimistic from the two games we've played that we could achieve it. Bristol City may have finished 12th but they were solidly in the playoffs all of last season. QPR were a true mid table team. We lost away to City because of our own errors then we beat QPR. Outclassed them both for long periods, young squad that's improving and adjusting.

I don't doubt we'll get a couple of pastings this year but keep to our system and believe in what we do and we can be fine. Also I think the league is weaker that it is most years, I'm confident of us finishing above the majority of Wycombe, Rotherham, Sheff Wed, Barnsley, Luton and there is always a team that should be mid table but implodes.

Yep agree with much of that. This was certainly a very good year for us to go up

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Yep agree with much of that. This was certainly a very good year for us to go up

Helped by the fact our crowd (and therefore income) issues are across the board, too.

 

[Liquid Gold]

Yep agree with much of that. This was certainly a very good year for us to go up

We'd have been fucked this year in League 1 with the salary cap and ffp at St Andrews. I have no doubt we'd have lost MR.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Helped by the fact our crowd (and therefore income) issues are across the board, too.

Yep posted that some months ago

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

We'd have been fucked this year in League 1 with the salary cap and ffp at St Andrews. I have no doubt we'd have lost MR.

Absolutely. About time the rub of the green came our way though as when crowds come back we'll be handicapped again

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

MR here for the long haul

 

[Adge]

"Let's take relegation form the Premiership to Division One so we can remember how to be a winning team again"

It took 18 years and relegation to League 2 but we did it eventually.

Yep-seems we are now even nearer to getting back on the treadmill........

 

[long way home]

Good coaching is the key, everything stems from that point, keeping things simple and repeating a formula each day helps set the style and patterns of play. If this works and it brings results everything else falls into place.

As for the club and this group, the togetherness is very obvious, they believe in each other and the plan given, they also have confidence in the system. You can see the work put into the team from the Bristol game to QPR, in the 1st half Friday we sat deep closed the space allowing QPR to have the ball, but denied them any real clear cut chances, sort of bend not break.. In the second half we squueezed on and pressured faster and higher, we got round the ball a lot quicker, which is where Shipley and Allen's work goes unnoticed as they are playing the system of closing channels. Not being on the ball the preseption could be the game is passing you by when in reality you are doing a job to allow others to have the ball by forcing the opposition and ball into areas they dont want to be.

This team is creating an identity and the coaching and recruitment is fitting the plan and type of player that works witin the group. While this is working confidence is building, not only as individual players, but in the belief that the coaching and plan will bring success. Staying up this year is still the team goal, but quietly this group could shock a few and push beyond what most could think realistic. If staying up is the end result that will be a great stepping stone for the club and with certain players buying in and staying we will only make the club stronger on the field and off the fieid.