Fisher on cwr now (3 Viewers)

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stupot07

stupot07

Well-Known Member
coundonskyblue said:
Am I right in thinking that ffp only applies to 'football related income'?

If so owning the Ricoh would make very little difference as all the concert & conferencing money wouldn't be able to go towards the team.

He keeps using ffp as a smokescreen, if ffp is just football income (ie tickets) then ours should be amongst the highest in the division anyway.
Click to expand...

I'm not an expert but I'm sure man city have developed a massive campus around their ground to generate income to help them meet the FFP rules? If so then i would assume that a stake in the Ricoh would count towards income.
 
grego_gee

grego_gee

New Member
I think "playing budget" effectively includes both players wages and anything for transfer fees....
but maybe transfer fees are going out of fashion -
we'll be expecting to survive on free (or very small) transfers...
and maybe FFP will lead to transfer fees declining sharply anyway...
I reckon not many clubs outside the Prem will have much leeway for transfer fees in the future. :pimp:
 
oldskyblue58

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
this is the reply i had previously from FL about the income that counts in the calculation

Income generated by a club that forms part of its football activities such as, commercial revenues, gate revenues, solidarity payments, Football League payments, donations, net transfer income (transfer fees paid) all make up the relevant income within the SCMP guidelines.

The relevant income figure for SCMP will be a portion of total turnover, but not necessarily agree to total turnover figure in the accounts.

say we have a playing staff of 25 ......

on average we pay £1500 pw to them leaves a wage bill at £1.95m which with FFP rule requiring player budget at 65% means a turnover of £3m ........ which with other costs (other staff, rent and other overheads, depreciation, direct costs etc) say 2m leaves a loss £1m

on average if we pay £2500 pw that leaves player wages at 3.25m and a required turnover of £5m ..... which would nearly break us even after other costs of nearly £2m.

so some thoughts/questions
- player sales count in the calculation - have they built sales in to get to the player budget nearer £4m
- the deal on Charity shares not finalised so cannot be relied upon in the budget
- from what we know there is no additional income to come from ACL just by owning the shares, would it count any way ? (see above from FL)
- what are each of the players paid
- will the squad be 25 strong or bigger than that - at £1500pw that adds £78000 pa to the player budget for every extra player (considering we are supposed to be having u21 side too wont we need 30 or so ?) (at £2500 adds £130k pa per player)
- what is the other staff costs - manager? back room staff? academy ? academy staff ? directors ? commercial staff?
- what will the rent be ?
- what is the core value of income?
- any new sources of income ?
- are the other costs as low as £2m?
- why doesnt someone ask the chairman of the two clubs quoted with budgets £1.4m and £8m what TF told them about our budget ?
- are we budgeting to make a loss on normal trading ? if so are player sales going to cover the losses?.............. (or SISU :laugh: )
- if a club achieved success on £1.4m what does that say (if anything )about what has been going on at our club or is budgeted for ?

Need a little more transparency i reckon and TF needs to stop hiding conveniently behind commercial sensitivity ...... at least 2 other clubs clearly havent and achieved some success (lets face it CCFC in any play off would be a success)
 
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grego_gee

grego_gee

New Member
oldskyblue58 said:
Income generated by a club that forms part of its football activities such as, commercial revenues, gate revenues, solidarity payments, Football League payments, donations, net transfer income (transfer fees paid) all make up the relevant income within the SCMP guidelines.
Click to expand...


I just printed off my copy of the last accounts, surprised me actually.... I hadn't looked much beyond the p&L and balance sheet before. Its 17 pages in all!..........

it shows an income in 2010 of £9.2m (made up of gate receipts £4.3m, tv etc £4.9m)
if 2011 was close to that say £8m and FFP limits us to 65%, that would be a top ceiling of £5.2m (that assumption excludes any profit ((or loss!)) on player registrations)

interestingly......
this limited budget is seemingly not influenced by any willingness (or not) of SISU to fund it. Since it can only include revenue generated by the club! the limiting factor is what was generated last year.
working it backwards if the budget is close to £4m the income last year when the accounts can be seen will be close to £6.15m...(including any p&l on player transfers)

:pimp:
 
stupot07

stupot07

Well-Known Member
grego_gee said:
I just printed off my copy of the last accounts, surprised me actually.... I hadn't looked much beyond the p&L and balance sheet before. Its 17 pages in all!..........

it shows an income in 2010 of £9.2m (made up of gate receipts £4.3m, tv etc £4.9m)
if 2011 was close to that say £8m and FFP limits us to 65%, that would be a top ceiling of £5.2m (that assumption excludes any profit ((or loss!)) on player registrations)

interestingly......
this limited budget is seemingly not influenced by any willingness (or not) of SISU to fund it. Since it can only include revenue generated by the club! the limiting factor is what was generated last year.
working it backwards if the budget is close to £4m the income last year when the accounts can be seen will be close to £6.15m...(including any p&l on player transfers)

:pimp:
Click to expand...

How much was our totally expenditure that year?
 
oldskyblue58

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
I think that the 65% limit is calculated on the budget that each club has to submit not what we did last year. But all these snippets of info go to help build the picture of what is going on grego_gee certainly
 
grego_gee

grego_gee

New Member
stupot07 said:
How much was our totally expenditure that year?
Click to expand...
total costs is difficult to finger....
but in the p&l (£930,478) is deducted from turnover (expressed as "direct operating costs")
that's interesting because its less than the £1.2m that the quoted rent of £100,000k a month would account for.
I'd previously wondered if we only paid in the active season, so maybe that's right?
might explain why nothings really hit the fan on withholding rent!

... :pimp:
 
oldskyblue58

oldskyblue58

CCFC Finance Director
thats because the rent is charged to CCFC Holdings who then recharge various expenses including rent to CCFC Ltd. The £900k is more to do with other direct costs although there are no details what.

action on rent hasnt been taken yet because there is a rental deposit being drawn against...... however that deposit will need to be replenished
 
grego_gee

grego_gee

New Member
oldskyblue58 said:
thats because the rent is charged to CCFC Holdings who then recharge various expenses including rent to CCFC Ltd. The £900k is more to do with other direct costs although there are no details what.

action on rent hasnt been taken yet because there is a rental deposit being drawn against...... however that deposit will need to be replenished
Click to expand...

Surely CCFC have to include the expense of the rent in their accounts even if its paid through CCFC holdings. They can't have someone subsidising them especially under FFP!
Are there details of the rent in the faqs?
The 930k is expressed as direct operating costs (which I would have expected to include rent) there is another heading of £3.3m for administrative expenses shown alongside £10.3m for staff costs.
I'm not an accountant!
I feel sick now, going to lie down!

:pimp:
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
He's just been on again ,this time addressing the spector of redundancies ,basically its a nesseccity of loss of revenue.why don't they start in the boardroom ,theres jack all to do ,we don't need two investment bankers in there surely .LABOVITCH OUT!!!!
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
grego_gee said:
Surely CCFC have to include the expense of the rent in their accounts even if its paid through CCFC holdings. They can't have someone subsidising them especially under FFP!
Are there details of the rent in the faqs?
The 930k is expressed as direct operating costs (which I would have expected to include rent) there is another heading of £3.3m for administrative expenses shown alongside £10.3m for staff costs.
I'm not an accountant!
I feel sick now, going to lie down!

:pimp:
Click to expand...
Direct operating costs ,could it be interest on the mortgages for RYTON or did that come later.
 
ccfcway

ccfcway

Well-Known Member
FAB interview !!!!!!! CET shold take note.

10/10 from me !

self inflicted embargo !, "talk about shooting yourself in the foot" :)



Waggott

"all about bringing in some new players and moving some players out"

er, moving players out ?

more than the 20 or so we have already moved out in last 2 seasons ?
 
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