6 championship clubs need bailout (5 Viewers)

[jordan210]

Whats the bet its the teams who have spent big and pay stupid wages.

 

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[chiefdave]

Whats the bet its the teams who have spent big and pay stupid wages.

Don't want any club to go out of business but from a purely selfish point of view if 6 more teams got points deductions it makes survival a lot easier.

 

[Covstu]

Survival is critical this year. Just fear if we go down league one is going to get cut adrift. Clubs like us, Barnsley, Luton etc have spent wisely given the challenges of this year but others have been daft still. Kind of feels like they spend just expecting they will get bailed out

 

[JimmyHillsbeard]

Don't want any club to go out of business but from a purely selfish point of view if 6 more teams got points deductions it makes survival a lot easier.

Provided we are not one of the six?

 

[skybluesam66]

we will not be 1 of the 6
We budgeted for no crowds before new year - before the callum wilson money - which should cover the rest of the season

we are in a very good position - and although we have spent money - our income is several million up on last year

 

[JimmyHillsbeard]

we will not be 1 of the 6
We budgeted for no crowds before new year - before the callum wilson money - which should cover the rest of the season

we are in a very good position - and although we have spent money - our income is several million up on last year

I think you’re probably right and I certainly hope you are but there have been times over the not so recent pdr when we would have definitely been the first to the wall in this type of crisis. Sheer happenstance that we seem to be in the right sort of place at this terrible time.

I know you’re not suggesting that we pull the ladder up on the clubs in trouble but seeking to benefit from our relative point of strength is precisely what Manchester United and Liverpool are seeking to do too.

 

[Tommo1993]

One of them is Derby. Been on the brink for a while, even before the crisis.

 

[steve cooper]

This has been coming for a while though. The pandemic has brought things to a head but championship clubs particularly have been living above their means for years.

 

[chiefdave]

Provided we are not one of the six?

Fingers crossed but I'd be surprised. We came into the division knowing the situation and have pretty much the lowest wage bill, plus no ground to maintain!

 

[JulianDarbyFTW]

I think you’re probably right and I certainly hope you are but there have been times over the not so recent pdr when we would have definitely been the first to the wall in this type of crisis. Sheer happenstance that we seem to be in the right sort of place at this terrible time.

This probably isn't the thread for it, but I think, as much as people have frankly detested SISUs actions at times, their decision to make us relatively self-sustaining has been justified several times over during the past few months.

 

[The Philosopher]

If they need a bailout (as an alternative to going into admin) then they should be deducted points. Maybe 5 or 6 points or something if they need a bridging loan from the EFL against future TV revenue in order to pay off some player contracts.

Ok, so they could argue that they didn’t see the pandemic coming - but even so they should have trimmed their squads over the last 6 months. If CCFC, Luton, Barnsley etc. can break even on TV and advertising and shirt sales then other clubs should get in the real world and compete on equal terms.

 

[ajsccfc]

Fingers crossed but I'd be surprised. We came into the division knowing the situation and have pretty much the lowest wage bill, plus no ground to maintain!

Thinking the same, our recent history of playing at a more modest level may oddly benefit us at the moment. Teams that have spent big to desperately push for promotion seem likely candidates, Derby wouldn't be a surprise at all

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

Provided we are not one of the six?

Thankfully, from recent conversations I've had with those within the club, we're not one of the six.

It's more than likely it's those who have spent way beyond their means in recent years. If I had to guess Derby, Reading, Sheffield Wednesday, Birmingham, Preston could potentially be 5 of the 6. Unsure of who the last club could be, but again going off losses incurred over the past few seasons, I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was between Cardiff or QPR.

 

[Briles]

Parachute payments although help in the short term, turn out to be a hindrence if relegated teams dont go straight back up.

 

[Grendel]

This probably isn't the thread for it, but I think, as much as people have frankly detested SISUs actions at times, their decision to make us relatively self-sustaining has been justified several times over during the past few months.

We are not self sustaining and never have been

 

[Ccfcisparks]

I'd imagine this is a couple of the big teams who are constantly pushing for the playoffs (e.g. Bristol City, Derby) and a couple of lower teams (e.g Wycombe.)

 

[South West Sky Blue]

Birmingham would be fine. They've got the Jude Bellingham money.

This is some of the problem from what I read about Premiership. Apparently (even outside of the fresh idea being pushed in the last week) the Premiership is open to offering more financial help but is is not needed by all. They resent giving support to clubs who don't need it.

Birmingham have made money off Bellingham, Exeter have made £4m in sell ons from Watkins in the last month. Brentford have made a decent wedge and will make more. There are numerous examples of clubs who don't need the money due to being well run and receiving high transfers. Should they be excluded from financial support (obviously not!)

 

[Colin Steins Smile]

The disparity in revenues between the Premier League & Championship has led to a casino culture within some clubs of gambling on promotion and ignoring the FFP rules [e.g. Aston Villa & Bournemouth for their promotion years.....and got away with it].

Whatever is decided by the Premier League meeting today must not reward reckless business practices by some clubs...i.e. Derby. One thing good that has come out of the Liverpool & Man Utd proposal is the PL clubs have to do something to support the EFL pyramid.

 

[fernandopartridge]

One of them is Derby. Been on the brink for a while, even before the crisis.

Yeah, heard Mal Morris? on Radio 5 waxing lyrical about this deal with the big 6. It says it all really.

 

[Gynnsthetonic]

Forest, Derby, Sheffield Wed, Stoke, Middlesbrough, Cardiff maybe, Birmingham if thier owners keep all the Bellingham money

 

[Gibbo]

Probably not Wycombe for the same reason it is not us. Low fixed overheads. It will probably be the high rollers with no parachute payments from recent relegation from the Premiership. So Derby, Sheffield Wednesday, but after that it could be anybody

 

[Frostie]

Ok, so they could argue that they didn’t see the pandemic coming - but even so they should have trimmed their squads over the last 6 months. If CCFC, Luton, Barnsley etc. can break even on TV and advertising and shirt sales then other clubs should get in the real world and compete on equal terms.

Broadly agree with this, some of them have been very reckless.
The only thing in their defence though is it is now incredibly difficult to trim their squads of high earners & players they don't want anymore in the current climate.

 

[rob9872]

The problem with parachute payments is they're not always used for their intended purpose. Some see it as part of their budget to help them get back when in fact it should be seen (as per the name) to help a softer landing and potentially pay for all of the contracts that remain in place on Premiership wages.

It would be a lot better (imo) if all contracts immediately halved (or better) on relegation from the Premiership. That would help clubs survive and make it easier to either move players out or them want to go to get an improved deal at a top flight team, rather than rot as that Sunderland lad did on £60k pw not playing. I don't blame the players for taking it, but the system that enables it.

If players were made to take some responsibility for their failure and the EFL was actually fit for purpose regarding ownership and enforcing rules to keep clubs within their limits, then there shouldn't be any need for bail outs with all clubs knowing the consequences of points deductions and potentially administration if they fail to meet the criteria.

I have sympathy with those under bad ownership and despite recent success and cutting our cloth, I'd still put us in that bracket, but those who knowingly spend money they don't have either chasing the Premiership golden egg or trying to maintain their position in it, then they don't deserve any kind of bail out.

 

[fernandopartridge]

The problem with parachute payments is they're not always used for their intended purpose. Some see it as part of their budget to help them get back when in fact it should be seen (as per the name) to help a softer landing and potentially pay for all of the contracts that remain in place on Premiership wages.

It would be a lot better (imo) if all contracts immediately halved (or better) on relegation from the Premiership. That would help clubs survive and make it easier to either move players out or them want to go to get an improved deal at a top flight team, rather than rot as that Sunderland lad did on £60k pw not playing. I don't blame the players for taking it, but the system that enables it.

If players were made to take some responsibility for their failure and the EFL was actually fit for purpose regarding ownership and enforcing rules to keep clubs within their limits, then there shouldn't be any need for bail outs with all clubs knowing the consequences of points deductions and potentially administration if they fail to meet the criteria.

I have sympathy with those under bad ownership and despite recent success and cutting our cloth, I'd still put us in that bracket, but those who knowingly spend money they don't have either chasing the Premiership golden egg or trying to maintain their position in it, then they don't deserve any kind of bail out.

agree on that, parachute payments should only be drawn down as long as club is adhering to an agreed plan to reduce costs. The clubs would argue that it impinges ability to compete but think that's easily rebutted

 

[chiefdave]

The disparity in revenues between the Premier League & Championship has led to a casino culture within some clubs of gambling on promotion and ignoring the FFP rules [e.g. Aston Villa & Bournemouth for their promotion years.....and got away with it].

Whatever is decided by the Premier League meeting today must not reward reckless business practices by some clubs...i.e. Derby. One thing good that has come out of the Liverpool & Man Utd proposal is the PL clubs have to do something to support the EFL pyramid.

Hearing the likes of Peterborough and FGR saying they are in favour of the plan reading between the lines the implication is they will never be sustainable Championship clubs. As we're seeing the gap between L1 and the Championship is huge.

If there is a large group of clubs who feel similar does there need to be a serious conversation about a 2 division premier league sat above the EFL with no promotion and relegation between the two?

 

[chiefdave]

The problem with parachute payments is they're not always used for their intended purpose.

There's no reason for them to exist. Every contract should have a clause about wage reductions in the event of relegation.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Shit I agree with Grendel! We are not self sustaining and with all the progress we have made we are still dependent on Sisu and joy personally to not pull the plug. I’m more optimistic that this won’t happen but to think we are in a better position than other clubs is misleading

 

[MusicDating]

Yeah, heard Mal Morris? on Radio 5 waxing lyrical about this deal with the big 6. It says it all really.

Poor old Mel, he only got £450m when he sold King (owners of Candy Crush) a few years ago...

Looking at this list of owners List of owners of English football clubs - Wikipedia he's not the only multi-multi-millionaire. You want a bail-out guys? Get to fuck.

 

[Legia Sky Blue]

Any payments made by the PL need to be shared on an equitable basis. You can't have a situation where big spending clubs are bailed out, allowing them to keep better players, while those more responsible clubs are then penalised. If there has to be a disparity though, then maybe those clubs in desperate need of a bail out should be given the bare minimum to survive while the more prudent clubs should be granted larger payments both as a reward, but also as an incentive for the over spenders to get their houses in order

 

[AFCCOVENTRY]

Football is an absolute mess and the existence of the premier league (gargantuan money involved) is causing the football pyramid to cave in.

 

[Frank Sidebottom]

Can we just have Man Citys mini Etihad wheeled down to Hearsall Common for us to keep instead of a bail out?

 

[Barnsley]

If this happens it absolutely ridiculous, we’ve let 13 players leave this summer, we’ve sold our head coach, we’ve dragged in over £5M in transfer fees, rumour has it we’re about to sell our best two players in Mowatt and Woodrow. We’ve signed 3 players for the first team and 2 for the development squad, we’ve reduced our wage bill massively and we’ve slashed the size of our squad, to compensate for our reduced income if other clubs haven’t then let them go in administration it’s their own doing.

 

[Mcbean]

If this happens it absolutely ridiculous, we’ve let 13 players leave this summer, we’ve sold our head coach, we’ve dragged in over £5M in transfer fees, rumour has it we’re about to sell our best two players in Mowatt and Woodrow. We’ve signed 3 players for the first team and 2 for the development squad, we’ve reduced our wage bill massively and we’ve slashed the size of our squad, to compensate for our reduced income if other clubs haven’t then let them go in administration it’s their own doing.

Yes but you still took 2 points off us...............................





seriously though Covid will create a meltdown eventually - some will have to go - its not sustainable as it is - even some of the Prem clubs could be vulnerable

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

Shit I agree with Grendel! We are not self sustaining and with all the progress we have made we are still dependent on Sisu and joy personally to not pull the plug. I’m more optimistic that this won’t happen but to think we are in a better position than other clubs is misleading

I don't know where this myth of the club being self sustaining has come from. Fisher's probably only ever truthful comment has always been that we'd only ever be self sufficient if we have a fairly significant player sale or two every season.

Otherwise, we are entirely dependant on the owners.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

Hearing the likes of Peterborough and FGR saying they are in favour of the plan reading between the lines the implication is they will never be sustainable Championship clubs. As we're seeing the gap between L1 and the Championship is huge.

If there is a large group of clubs who feel similar does there need to be a serious conversation about a 2 division premier league sat above the EFL with no promotion and relegation between the two?

If you read between the lines of both chairman's comments, they aren't particularly bothered about the Ts&Cs of the proposal, they just want the bailout as they don't believe there's an alternative.