Match Thread Brentford Match Thread (4 Viewers)

[Nick]

 

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[Liquid Gold]

Clearly you’re bringing some beef over from another conversation. I can’t help you with that.

I mean, yes I do think they aren’t as good, because they’re sat on the bench (or in Hilßner’s case not even getting in the U23s). That would suggest Robins also thinks they aren’t as good *right now*. They may get better with training, but right now they aren’t displacing the existing players. That’s fine when you’re slowly building a squad, but, as the point I’ve repeatedly made that you are desperate to avoid asks: can we afford to not have an increase in first team quality immediately when the quality of opposition has undergone such a step change?

Or as I’ve said repeatedly: does “the model” work for the jump from L1 to the Championship?

Sheaf is in the first team, Walker scored on his debut but is a striker when we play 1 up top and Godden has scored 7 in 8 but he'll definitely have his chance and Hilsner is out because of a medical condition.

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

And our opponents on Tuesday are in talks to sign Fabio Borini

 

[shmmeee]

Sheaf is in the first team, Walker scored on his debut but is a striker when we play 1 up top and Godden has scored 7 in 8 but he'll definitely have his chance and Hilsner is out because of a medical condition.

Hilßner isn’t out. He’s played from the bench for the U23s and Robins has said he’s back in training.

Neither Sheaf nor Walker have stood out in their cameos, Sheaf for a good chunk of one game looked miles off the pace of the Championship. Both would be good L1 players and probably a slight improvement over last season, but the point I’m making is we need more of a jump in quality than small incremental improvements. Or rather I’m asking do we and getting jumped on by a bunch of people who think I’m saying sack Robins or something.

I’ll reset: my point is basically: should we have spent some funds on bringing in experienced Championship players outside the model as other teams who have stayed up have? Can we afford a period of time where every single one of our players is adapting to this level, or do we risk either falling too far behind while that happens, or damaging the confidence of our young squad before it happens?

 

[kg82]

Hilßner isn’t out. He’s played from the bench for the U23s and Robins has said he’s back in training.

Neither Sheaf nor Walker have stood out in their cameos, Sheaf for a good chunk of one game looked miles off the pace of the Championship. Both would be good L1 players and probably a slight improvement over last season, but the point I’m making is we need more of a jump in quality than small incremental improvements. Or rather I’m asking do we and getting jumped on by a bunch of people who think I’m saying sack Robins or something.

I’ll reset: my point is basically: should we have spent some funds on bringing in experienced Championship players outside the model as other teams who have stayed up have? Can we afford a period of time where every single one of our players is adapting to this level, or do we risk either falling too far behind while that happens, or damaging the confidence of our young squad before it happens?

Well you’ll be pleased to hear that Hilßner is starting for the U23’s tonight.

 

[Esoterica]

That’s a fair argument to make. I suppose it comes down to how much better do you think we were than everyone else last year (I’d argue good but not miles ahead as our record of close wins and being built on a solid defence would show, we didn’t annihilate teams last year), and how big the jump in quality is between L1/Championship (I’d argue far bigger than the amount we were ahead of L1 already)

Massively important to stay in the Championship this year for so many reasons. From purely a team perspective, Fernando made similar points to my thoughts on it. We have young squad, inexperienced at this level, who are fairly evenly matched in terms of current ability. Maybe only Marosi and Dabo whose place in the first XI is guaranteed now and still will be at the end of the season. Hamer is too on ability but he also needs to prove he can control himself.

The variable this season is who from the rest of the squad will grow into this league. There's still an awful lot of question marks at this point against many of the players who have started matches, nevermind in the squad e.g. Sheaf, Shipley, Allen, Ostigard, even Godden, who is again showing his lethal finishing, but struggling to occupy a better quality of defence in the formation we play.
Most importantly we should have a much better idea by the end of the season who is capable of making the step up, so will hopefully be starting next season with a nucleus of players we know are good enough rather than the situation we find ourselves in now.

Then the players who stagnate this season will be the ones upgraded with better quality next summer when we e.g. sell Dabo and Hamer. So for the additional money we get for selling those 2 in the Championship, we have to replace 2 established first teamers and say 3 stagnated squad players but the good price we should get for them means that replacing them becomes slightly less risky than plucking players like Hilssner from German Div 2 on nominal fees, like we had to do this year. Consequently the overall quality of the squad improves.

It is still very early in the season though and I expect us to be a much better team in the final third of the season than at the start, once we begin to benefit from the gradual improvement in our players. Our model means that we are always going to need the dust to settle each season but for every season we survive here, there should be slightly less risk in the players we can bring in. We are so reliant on the recruitment team now though, it's scary!

 

[Liquid Gold]

Massively important to stay in the Championship this year for so many reasons. From purely a team perspective, Fernando made similar points to my thoughts on it. We have young squad, inexperienced at this level, who are fairly evenly matched in terms of current ability. Maybe only Marosi and Dabo whose place in the first XI is guaranteed now and still will be at the end of the season. Hamer is too on ability but he also needs to prove he can control himself.

The variable this season is who from the rest of the squad will grow into this league. There's still an awful lot of question marks at this point against many of the players who have started matches, nevermind in the squad e.g. Sheaf, Shipley, Allen, Ostigard, even Godden, who is again showing his lethal finishing, but struggling to occupy a better quality of defence in the formation we play.
Most importantly we should have a much better idea by the end of the season who is capable of making the step up, so will hopefully be starting next season with a nucleus of players we know are good enough rather than the situation we find ourselves in now.

Then the players who stagnate this season will be the ones upgraded with better quality next summer when we e.g. sell Dabo and Hamer. So for the additional money we get for selling those 2 in the Championship, we have to replace 2 established first teamers and say 3 stagnated squad players but the good price we should get for them means that replacing them becomes slightly less risky than plucking players like Hilssner from German Div 2 on nominal fees, like we had to do this year. Consequently the overall quality of the squad improves.

It is still very early in the season though and I expect us to be a much better team in the final third of the season than at the start, once we begin to benefit from the gradual improvement in our players. Our model means that we are always going to need the dust to settle each season but for every season we survive here, there should be slightly less risk in the players we can bring in. We are so reliant on the recruitment team now though, it's scary!

This is what I'm taking solace in. Every season Robins has been here he's improved the squad from the previous season and the squad has gelled and improved as the season has progressed.

Relegation should be less of a danger this year than most as Wycombe are clearly not up to the standard required and we're still ahead of Wednesday by 11 points and Barnsley & Huddersfield who were expected to struggle are already below us.

I trust in the process that has improved us year on year to continue improving us.

 

[Londonccfcfan]

I doubt he will be in the squad anyway tommorow. His head wont be right and he probably wont have trained all week

 

[fernandopartridge]

Hilßner isn’t out. He’s played from the bench for the U23s and Robins has said he’s back in training.

Neither Sheaf nor Walker have stood out in their cameos, Sheaf for a good chunk of one game looked miles off the pace of the Championship. Both would be good L1 players and probably a slight improvement over last season, but the point I’m making is we need more of a jump in quality than small incremental improvements. Or rather I’m asking do we and getting jumped on by a bunch of people who think I’m saying sack Robins or something.

I’ll reset: my point is basically: should we have spent some funds on bringing in experienced Championship players outside the model as other teams who have stayed up have? Can we afford a period of time where every single one of our players is adapting to this level, or do we risk either falling too far behind while that happens, or damaging the confidence of our young squad before it happens?

Sheaf was fine against Bournemouth, was actually one of our better players once he got in to the game.

 

[Briles]

I think Sheaf could become very important as the season progresses. Yes he isnt up to fitness yet but his range of passing and athleticism will be crucial to how we play,. Theres a reason Wenger thought so highly of him.

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

I think Sheaf could become very important as the season progresses. Yes he isnt up to fitness yet but his range of passing and athleticism will be crucial to how we play,. Theres a reason Wenger thought so highly of him.

He didn’t - he made the comments after his debut and just gave some nice comments about him as you would expect any manager to.

 

[Briles]

He didn’t - he made the comments after his debut and just gave some nice comments about him as you would expect any manager to.

Playing in a 1st team game in the Europa league at 19 isn't just "nice"

 

[Esoterica]

This is what I'm taking solace in. Every season Robins has been here he's improved the squad from the previous season and the squad has gelled and improved as the season has progressed.

Relegation should be less of a danger this year than most as Wycombe are clearly not up to the standard required and we're still ahead of Wednesday by 11 points and Barnsley & Huddersfield who were expected to struggle are already below us.

I trust in the process that has improved us year on year to continue improving us.

Imagine the variables and consequences for next season too. Fans return for a 2nd season as a re-established Championship club back at the Ricoh OR relegation back to L1 and stuck at St Andrews for another 2 years. I think the underlying ground situation and the wider implications of survival is layering a lot of anxiety into people's views of the on the pitch situation. You could be looking at a 15,000 fan delta in those scenarios.

 

[Londonccfcfan]

I think Sheaf could become very important as the season progresses. Yes he isnt up to fitness yet but his range of passing and athleticism will be crucial to how we play,. Theres a reason Wenger thought so highly of him.

I agree.

As the season unfolds and once Hamer is back, i can see MR playing all 3 defensive midfielders (Kelly,Shaef, Hamer) keeping it solid/tight and trying to win midfield battle. at the expense of one of the attacking 3 likely Allen.

 

[shmmeee]

Sheaf was fine against Bournemouth, was actually one of our better players once he got in to the game.

TBF I only listened to the second half at Bournemouth so may have missed one of his better performances.

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

This is what I'm taking solace in. Every season Robins has been here he's improved the squad from the previous season and the squad has gelled and improved as the season has progressed.

Relegation should be less of a danger this year than most as Wycombe are clearly not up to the standard required and we're still ahead of Wednesday by 11 points and Barnsley & Huddersfield who were expected to struggle are already below us.

I trust in the process that has improved us year on year to continue improving us.

Not particularly something that we should wish for, or be relying upon, but further points deductions are probably going to be handed out over the next few months as well.

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

Playing in a 1st team game in the Europa league at 19 isn't just "nice"

He played 1 minute and the bench was full of youngsters most of whom are now at lower league clubs

There is no evidence that Wenger rates him highly, it puts unnecessary pressure on him.

 

[Briles]

He played 1 minute and the bench was full of youngsters most of whom are now at lower league clubs

There is no evidence that Wenger rates him highly, it puts unnecessary pressure on him.

Ok, he's awful until proven otherwise then

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

Ok, he's awful until proven otherwise then

I don’t think he is, it’s just false to say given by his involvement he was highly rated by Wenger

 

[fernandopartridge]

I agree.

As the season unfolds and once Hamer is back, i can see MR playing all 3 defensive midfielders (Kelly,Shaef, Hamer) keeping it solid/tight and trying to win midfield battle. at the expense of one of the attacking 3 likely Allen.

Hamer isn't a defensive midfielder

 

[Londonccfcfan]

Hamer isn't a defensive midfielder

I think he is more accustomed to that role, but yes i agree i think he can play further up in place of Shipley/Allen role, let Kelly and Sheaf behind him.

He is a very accomplished player.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

TBF I only listened to the second half at Bournemouth so may have missed one of his better performances.

But you said Sheaf hasn't stood out in his cameos, yet you've not seen him play every game?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Playing in a 1st team game in the Europa league at 19 isn't just "nice"

OK, given the huge number of academy lads and U23's teams like Arsenal take on even getting into a squad of that nature is an achievement but lets be honest, that competition is the equivalent of the EFL cup or checkatrade for us. Nice to do well but frankly not high on the list of priorities and likely to be used as a means of blooding youngsters. A bit like saying MR really rated Walters or Bosma because he played him the Checkatrade.

 

[fernandopartridge]

OK, given the huge number of academy lads and U23's teams like Arsenal take on even getting into a squad of that nature is an achievement but lets be honest, that competition is the equivalent of the EFL cup or checkatrade for us. Nice to do well but frankly not high on the list of priorities and likely to be used as a means of blooding youngsters. A bit like saying MR really rated Walters or Bosma because he played him the Checkatrade.

Not really, given the level of opposition are poles apart

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Not really, given the level of opposition are poles apart

As is the standard of us and Arsenal. It's all relative. People we're raving over here wouldn't even get a mention at other clubs like that.

 

[PUSB-We_are_going_up]

Brentford 3-1
Reason For Brentford vs Coventry Predictions

• Coventry have collected just one point from their two away games this season.
• Brentford have won seven of their last ten home league matches.
• However, the hosts have conceded nine goals in their first four games this term.

It’s been an indifferent start to the new campaign for Brentford, but the Bees are warm favourites to get back on track when they host Coventry City at Griffin Park this Saturday.
Their early wobble is perhaps a little understandable considering they only lost a Play-Off Final a matter of weeks ago – a heartache which came soon after they agonisingly fell short of achieving automatic promotion to the Premier League. Add in the loss of talisman Ollie Watkins to Aston Villa and it becomes easy to empathise with their recent adjustments.
A 2-4 home defeat to Preston North End last time out was a world away from the heights that Thomas Frank’s men were hitting in 2019/20, but this Saturday’s fixture against newly promoted Coventry looks an ideal opportunity for the Bees to return to winning ways.
Like Brentford, The Sky Blues also have four points on the board from their opening four matches, but their efforts so far suggest they’re going to find life tough back at this level.
They were soundly beaten 1-3 by Bournemouth last time out and have collected just one point from away games against Bristol City (2-1) and Barnsley (0-0). Brentford should be too strong this Saturday despite conceding nine goals in their first four outings and we’re predicting a 3-1 triumph for the home side.

Brentford vs Coventry Predictions & Tips

Brentford vs Coventry Predictions & tips for Saturday's Championship clash. Click here for all our free predictions and betting tips.

www.freesupertips.com

Who does the person writing that think we are? Wycombe?

 

[Frostie]

Kelly an injury doubt...

 

[skyblueinBaku]

Kelly an injury doubt...

Again?

 

[Frostie]

Again?

Yep. Small muscle injury

 

[robbiekeane]

’ll reset: my point is basically: should we have spent some funds on bringing in experienced Championship players outside the model as other teams who have stayed up have? Can we afford a period of time where every single one of our players is adapting to this level, or do we risk either falling too far behind while that happens, or damaging the confidence of our young squad before it happens?

I think it's a fair question and I'd agree it's a risk - my own view is that we don't really have a choice and it's a risk we have to take. The "model" is not perfect I think we all agree on that and there are always going to be a certain number of duds (to be mean) - some years there will be less and some there will be more. Some years there might be some absolute diamonds. As @Esoterica articulates quite well - this season is so so important to stay up, I am praying it falls in the latter category!

One of those where I think we will only know in a few months time!

 

[shmmeee]

I think it's a fair question and I'd agree it's a risk - my own view is that we don't really have a choice and it's a risk we have to take. The "model" is not perfect I think we all agree on that and there are always going to be a certain number of duds (to be mean) - some years there will be less and some there will be more. Some years there might be some absolute diamonds. As @Esoterica articulates quite well - this season is so so important to stay up, I am praying it falls in the latter category!

One of those where I think we will only know in a few months time!

Completely agree. Though I’d argue the model has allowed for that sort of signing previously. Doyle in L2, Godden in L1.

 

[cc84cov]

Yep. Small muscle injury

Jesus can you imagine sheaf & Shipley CDM’s

 

[KenilworthSkyBlue]

Completely agree. Though I’d argue the model has allowed for that sort of signing previously. Doyle in L2, Godden in L1.

The current model relative to our turnover doesn't quantify for salaries of circa £15k+ required to bring in established Championship players though. The gulf that's been created between L1/L2 and the Championship is ridiculous and as such the leap was always going to be a challenge for us both on and off the pitch. We've gone from having an above average budget to one of the smallest budgets in the league. So, there was always going to be less than zero chance of being able to bring in a Championship equivalent to Godden in L1 or Doyle in L2. Therefore, in many ways you could argue that our model in its current form has peaked.

 

[Briles]

OK, given the huge number of academy lads and U23's teams like Arsenal take on even getting into a squad of that nature is an achievement but lets be honest, that competition is the equivalent of the EFL cup or checkatrade for us. Nice to do well but frankly not high on the list of priorities and likely to be used as a means of blooding youngsters. A bit like saying MR really rated Walters or Bosma because he played him the Checkatrade.

nowhere near the same im afraid

 

[AFCCOVENTRY]

Nice comments from the Bees boss about us. Will be interesting to see if we can test them tomorrow.