Oh Jeremy Corbyn (8 Viewers)

[fernandopartridge]

Sorry there was vile AS by members of the party and he did fuck all to try and rectify it and yes that is something he can legitimately be held accountable for as he was the leader.

So what if there tories are grubby as fuck and up to their knees in islamophobia? That can not be used to justify the piss poor response to AS with the Labour Party.

Have you read the report? The leader of the party is not supposed to interfere in dealing with complaints of AS. The fact he got involved to try and root it out is held against him in the report.

 

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[David O'Day]

OK - so why in the report does it say that the process improved under Corbyn’s leadership?

That doesn’t make it better at all and levelling failure here is justified, but they were shambolic before 2015 and especially under the remit of Ian McNicol.

That is by the by.

The issues is he is still coming out with the "overstated for political reasons" line after all these years.

And the process go better under Corbyn as Jenny Formby finally started to sort things out even when she had cancer.

Also the amount of AS rocketed after 2015

 

[David O'Day]

Have you read the report? The leader of the party is not supposed to interfere in dealing with complaints of AS. The fact he got involved to try and root it out is held against him in the report.

yes I've read the report and Corbyn was shit

But the point is the "overstated" line was awful and deserving of what will be a temp suspension

 

[Ian1779]

Weaponised? FFS.

How is it a FFS? Basic maths tells you that the number of upheld complaints against Lab members alone was less that 0.05% - is that what you call institutional???

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Where we're at, there's little option but to suspend him and investigate.

tbf it probably wouldn't have got this far, if similar action had happened under Corbyn's watch. I don't believe he's an anti-semite, but he's proven a pretty ineffectual manager of his party, really. Great on the campaigns, sure he's great as your local MP but forget his politics, there was probably a reason he was always dispensable for many of the previous Labour leaders beyond the divergance of political view, and that's just he's not the best administrator, controller... leader.

Better to have a transparent process, clear him or not, move on, then have constant whispering.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I take it there will be a mass Islamophobia investigation that will hound the Conservatives and that Johnson will be forced to apologise every 5 minutes for not condemning the 40% of his party who don’t want a Muslim leader? Corbyn should piss off but don’t pretend for a minute it’s an equal fight

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I take it there will be a mass Islamophobia investigation that will hound the Conservatives and that Johnson will be forced to apologise every 5 minutes for not condemning the 40% of his party who don’t want a Muslim leader? Corbyn should piss off but don’t pretend for a minute it’s an equal fight

No, it isn't. tbh, every party should welcome investigations into how they represent themselves and others, and welcome the opportunity to fix things when they go wrong.

There's nothing wrong in any of that.

Have to be effective in playing the politics when accusations come up, however. You have to be seen to be strong, for better or worse, around here.

 

[torchomatic]

How is it a FFS? Basic maths tells you that the number of upheld complaints against Lab members alone was less that 0.05% - is that what you call institutional???

I never mentioned 'institutional'. I reacted to "weaponised", a watchword for fake, made up, exaggerated.

That attitude is part of the problem. Corbyn failed electorally and he failed the party on AS. Regardless of the small percentage, he and his team were proved to have mishandled, interfered cases. Shown discrimination and harassed.

Weaponised, my arse.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No, it isn't. tbh, every party should welcome investigations into how they represent themselves and others, and welcome the opportunity to fix things when they go wrong.

There's nothing wrong in any of that.

Have to be effective in playing the politics when accusations come up, however. You have to be seen to be strong, for better or worse, around here.

I agree. I just want it to be a fair fight and it's clearly been used as a stick to beat Labour with when it represents a tiny fraction of the membership. But rampant crap in the Tories is given a free pass-double down and hit them with it

 

[Ian1779]

I never mentioned 'institutional'. I reacted to "weaponised", a watchword for fake, made up, exaggerated.

That attitude is part of the problem. Corbyn failed electorally and he failed the party on AS. Regardless of the small percentage, he and his team were proved to have mishandled, interfered cases. Shown discrimination and harassed.

Weaponised, my arse.

I am stating that the extent and the number of instances is exaggerated - not that the problem does not exist. Your response implies that it’s institutional which is why I challenged it.

So tell me why Starmer hasn’t gone the same zero tolerance on Reeves or Reed for example, but happy to act against Long-Bailey? That’s not consistent leadership is it, and no different in it’s failing than what you rightly castigate Corbyn for.

As if have always said, the issue of AS is complex. We have AS tropes ingrained into our society, popular culture and even films, music and TV. It takes education and explanation to make people aware of this. Then there is the whole issue over Israel/Palestine.

 

[chiefdave]

Only had a quick skim of the report, need more time to read it as there's 100 pages of it, but from what I've read so far Corbyn's statement seems pretty much in line with what the report says.

Will be interesting to see if Starmer revisits the leaked internal report and takes action given the EHRC report suggests that improvement in the handling of antisemitism complaints coincided with the removal of those named in the leaked report as actively working against Corbyn.

All in all its a complete mess, Labour seems unable to stop imploding even when we have a complete shambles of a government that they should be wiping the floor with.

 

[shmmeee]

I am stating that the extent and the number of instances is exaggerated - not that the problem does not exist. Your response implies that it’s institutional which is why I challenged it.

So tell me why Starmer hasn’t gone the same zero tolerance on Reeves or Reed for example, but happy to act against Long-Bailey? That’s not consistent leadership is it, and no different in it’s failing than what you rightly castigate Corbyn for.

As if have always said, the issue of AS is complex. We have AS tropes ingrained into our society, popular culture and even films, music and TV. It takes education and explanation to make people aware of this. Then there is the whole issue over Israel/Palestine.

See all your complaints of weaponisation ring kinda hollow when you willfully ignore the Nancy Astor context compared to say making statements about people living now or hanging around with actual antisemites.

 

[Ian1779]

See all your complaints of weaponisation ring kinda hollow when you willfully ignore the Nancy Astor context compared to say making statements about people living now or hanging around with actual antisemites.

OK then - so if we put that one to aside for a second you are comparing a guy who rolled out some pretty basic AS tropes a few days after RLB being disciplined by Starmer for her promotion of the article by Maxine Peake.

Some consistency at the very least.

 

[torchomatic]

I see, not surprisingly, that Zarah Sultana is on a list CAAS have made official complaints against along with usual suspects like Richard Burgon and Diane Abbott.

 

[Ian1779]

I see, not surprisingly, that Zarah Sultana is on a list CAAS have made official complaints against along with usual suspects like Richard Burgon and Diane Abbott.

So is Angela Rayner? Is he going to suspend his deputy?

 

[torchomatic]

So is Angela Rayner? Is he going to suspend his deputy?

Who knows. Perhaps he should.

 

[clint van damme]

See all your complaints of weaponisation ring kinda hollow when you willfully ignore the Nancy Astor context compared to say making statements about people living now or hanging around with actual antisemites.

and you're being very disingenuous if you don't admit that if one of Corbyns cronies had done what Reeves did they wouldn't have been pelted with accusations of antisemitism. So either there's context, or there's not.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

This is how celebrities are voting this general election

Craig David?!

www.marieclaire.co.uk

This list really makes me laugh.

 

[Deleted member 4439]

In all this, I've never actually seen any action or read any statement from anyone in the Labour Party that could be classed anti-semite. Seen loads of stuff that's anti-Israeli, of course, and I'm sure there must be something out there.

 

[Grendel]

In all this, I've never actually seen any action or read any statement from anyone in the Labour Party that could be classed anti-semite. Seen loads of stuff that's anti-Israeli, of course, and I'm sure there must be something out there.

Really? Naz Shah? Ken livingstone is a known Jew hater and of course a good friend of Mr Corbyn.

Also of course it’s pretty random Zara Sultana singles out the Israeli prime minister as someone she would like to murder but not say a despot like Chavez or Putin or a mad dog like the dictators in SSA

 

[David O'Day]

and you're being very disingenuous if you don't admit that if one of Corbyns cronies had done what Reeves did they wouldn't have been pelted with accusations of antisemitism. So either there's context, or there's not.

No they wouldn't as they would understand the context

Last thing I am saying is it's mental that some folk think that "it was dramatically overstated for political reasons" is in anyway an acceptable reply.

As long as no one else acts like a tit there will be no more suspensions etc.

 

[shmmeee]

No they wouldn't as they would understand the context

Last thing I am saying is it's mental that some folk think that "it was dramatically overstated for political reasons" is in anyway an acceptable reply.

As long as no one else acts like a tit there will be no more suspensions etc.

This is the long and the short of it. We can go all round the houses about individual cases and what is and isn’t AS, but if you’re politically dumb enough to release that statement on the day the report is released you’ve only got yourself to blame.

Just heard Kerry Anne Mendoza ranting on R4 as “a representative of the Labour left”. Let’s just say with representatives like that who needs a right wing conspiracy.

 

[Grendel]

From an outside perspective I think it’s a pretty stupid thing to do really.

 

[clint van damme]

No they wouldn't as they would understand the context

Last thing I am saying is it's mental that some folk think that "it was dramatically overstated for political reasons" is in anyway an acceptable reply.

As long as no one else acts like a tit there will be no more suspensions etc.

not a chance, you only have to look at the Marc Wadsworth/Ruth Smeeth incident to see that.

 

[clint van damme]

This is the long and the short of it. We can go all round the houses about individual cases and what is and isn’t AS, but if you’re politically dumb enough to release that statement on the day the report is released you’ve only got yourself to blame.

Just heard Kerry Anne Mendoza ranting on R4 as “a representative of the Labour left”. Let’s just say with representatives like that who needs a right wing conspiracy.

the problem is if Starmer was giving the tories the run around I could turn a blind eye to all of this but he's totally ineffectual at carrying out his main task.

 

[Grendel]

Who knows. Perhaps he should.

If he wants to win an election he certainly should - she has about as much appeal as an injection of Sulphuric acid

 

[Deleted member 4439]

Really? Naz Shah? Ken livingstone is a known Jew hater and of course a good friend of Mr Corbyn.

Also of course it’s pretty random Zara Sultana singles out the Israeli prime minister as someone she would like to murder but not say a despot like Chavez or Putin or a mad dog like the dictators in SSA

Could you point to any statements that are anti-Semitic, other than anti-Israeli? Genuine ask.

 

[Grendel]

Could you point to any statements that are anti-Semitic?

Livingstone has a history of them going back to the GLC days when he said Jews should not be in the Labour party, hes's praised Hitler and he once said to a Jewish journalist he should be in a concentration camp - its hardly the language of tolerance. Shah had to apologise for anti semetic slurs (she was backed by Mr Livingstone) as had Sultana

 

[Deleted member 4439]

Livingstone has a history of them going back to the GLC days when he said Jews should not be in the Labour party, hes's praised Hitler and he once said to a Jewish journalist he should be in a concentration camp - its hardly the language of tolerance. Shah had to apologise for anti semetic slurs (she was backed by Mr Livingstone) as had Sultana

Shah and Sultana had to apologise for anti-Israeli and, more generally outrageously bad, views - not anti-Semitism.

Would have to take your word on Livingstone.

But at the moment the evidence does seem rather lacking.

 

[Jamesimus]

Could you point to any statements that are anti-Semitic, other than anti-Israeli? Genuine ask.

Naz Shah tweeted a picture of the U.S. with Israel super-imposed on it saying "problem solved" or something to that effect I think.

For what it's worth I like Jezza and don't think he's anti-Semitic personally. The majority of what he said was fine. One paragraph of it was definitely not. You can't minimise these things and deflect blame, own them and talk about how you're going to put it right.

 

[stupot07]

Corbyns statement follow the outcome of the investigation was disgraceful and he has rightly been been suspended and had the whip removed.

Starmer has acted decisively.


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[Grendel]

Shah and Sultana had to apologise for anti-Israeli and, more generally outrageously bad, views - not anti-Semitism.

Would have to take your word on Livingstone.

But at the moment the evidence does seem rather lacking.

Shah admitted it

Naz Shah: My words were anti-Semitic - BBC News

Labour MP Naz Shah has said the comments which saw her suspended from the party were anti-Semitic.

www.google.co.uk

 

[David O'Day]

Loving the tories current attack line

 

[Grendel]

Naz Shah tweeted a picture of the U.S. with Israel super-imposed on it saying "problem solved" or something to that effect I think.

For what it's worth I like Jezza and don't think he's anti-Semitic personally. The majority of what he said was fine. One paragraph of it was definitely not. You can't minimise these things and deflect blame, own them and talk about how you're going to put it right.

I think Corbyn always has been anti Jew. He’s cut from the same cloth as livingstone - livingstone in his GLC days made anti Jewish comments and wanted Jews removed from power in the Labour Party. A high court lambasted his behaviour over the journalist incident

Both associate Jewish community with wealth and power

That said his removal Now seems odd. I can’t think of a leader having the whip removed and given Starmer was happy before to stand by his side it’s a wound he’s opened which need to have been

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

A big issue was Corbyn saying the problem was “dramatically overstated for political reasons” by opponents and the media. That's just wrong.

Well he may be right but now is not the time