Standard of Refereeing (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Frostie
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GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee
Well-Known Member
I personally find this a really tough dilemma and one of the biggest problems in the game as it is. Obviously, ideal world, referees get decisions right every time. That however is completely unrealistic.
At the other end of the spectrum is VAR which I think I speak for most football fans when I say I absolutely cannot stand it, and think its ruins the spectacle. While I agree referees should be held accountable for poor decisions, and more importantly poor fitness, I can't help but feel the clamour for constantly 'perfect' refereeing decisions is what has got us to where we currently are with VAR.
We should be looking to improve refereeing at every opportunity, but I would rather a human referee made mistakes then deal with VAR and its affect on the game. I guess sometimes it's better the devil you know...
At the other end of the spectrum is VAR which I think I speak for most football fans when I say I absolutely cannot stand it, and think its ruins the spectacle. While I agree referees should be held accountable for poor decisions, and more importantly poor fitness, I can't help but feel the clamour for constantly 'perfect' refereeing decisions is what has got us to where we currently are with VAR.
We should be looking to improve refereeing at every opportunity, but I would rather a human referee made mistakes then deal with VAR and its affect on the game. I guess sometimes it's better the devil you know...
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
I would prefer to say I can't stand it in the way it's been implemented.
It can help but the way it been used and for what is totally against how it would be most effective. Also staggering the number of things that are reviewed and still seem to be got wrong. Even correct decisions being overturned for wrong ones IMO in some cases.
Some of that is to do with the laws being too subjective and that ambiguity makes the entire thing pointless, but stuff like spending two minutes deciding if they've got a pube offside isn't what is was designed for. Making decision that are within the margin of error for the frame rate too.
Still think it can be an improvement, but it needs a radical rethink on the way it's being used at the moment. It's been helpful in so many other sports why has it been such a disaster in football? Got to suggest rather than the technology it's the way this sport in particular is utilising it.
lifeskyblue
Well-Known Member
Absolutely right. All will make a few mistakes and some could/should be fitter but what is the realistic alternative? More technology that means you should get the letter of the law right but rarely the spirit of the law. And we all know we are human (just like refs)...but we are blinkered because we see refs don’t always give a decision our way. I know I am biased when it comes to football and no matter how hard I try the ref ‘always favours’ the opposition.
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Frostie
Well-Known Member
Agree with that.
I 100% prefer standard refereeing with the inconsistencies & mistakes that come with it than VAR.
One thing I would say though is that over the last 2 years or so the general standard of refereeing has definitely seen a downturn.
Whether this is because PGMOL are so focused on VAR & dumbing down of the laws to ease its implementation that they've taken their eyes off the ball elsewhere I don't know.
Northeast sky blue
Well-Known Member
I think most people would be happy with a bit of consistency, referees seem to struggle with that even within the same match
GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee
Well-Known Member
Personally think it's not necessarily the way its being utilized but the nature of the sport itself, that's not to say there isn't some elements of the former though. In the sports it works: cricket, tennis, rugby, they are much slower with many more natural breaks. After a bowl, rally etc. Football is much more fluid. It also has a partisan crowd that we are all a part of and the release you get from a goal is what makes the magic. I personally don't think the release for a try, a point in tennis or a wicket is the same. A moment of ecstasy. Make that moment delayed or reviewed and it dampens the environment and eutrophic feeling we all love.
Secondly, as you said the rules don't allow for it. Handball was introduced to football to separate it from rugby. Offside was to prevent goal hanging. Now we have taken those rules and magnified them by 100000 and put them under the microscope that says, if someone's armpit is 1mm offside it's not a goal. If it hits someone's hand from a metre, it's a penalty. I think most sane people think this is nonsense. While it created some level of inconsistency, a 'normal' ref decision takes into account subjectivity. A subjectivity I think we all actually love and is a core of the reason we love football. It's a game of opinions after all. If you take away that subjectivity you are left with some weird scientific mess that no one really cares for.
Sorry I am dithering. I guess what I am trying to say without sounding like an obnoxious prick is, I don't think it works in football because football's rules aren't clearly defined which is what makes it such a good sport. The one thing it definitely works with is goal line technology and I don't think a single person would argue against it as it's definitive, it's definitely improved football.
Skybluefaz
Well-Known Member
I feel like it is much better tbh.
TomRad85
Well-Known Member
Do you think its good or do you just think League 1 was even worse?
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Skybluefaz
Well-Known Member
I think a couple have been good but I felt like league one and two were particularly dreadful.
Skybluefaz
Well-Known Member
I can't ever remember thinking a ref had a good game in L1 and L2.
TomRad85
Well-Known Member
Ha pretty much agree, don't think the mugs we've had this season have been any better though
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Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
The last paragraph is the crux of the problem - many of the rules are subjective and open to interpretation (other sports do have similar but not to the same extent) and part of the 'enjoyment' is venting your spleen at a decision which had it gone the other way the opposition fans could feel rightly just as aggrieved. But with the vast amount of money involvement and people employed getting such decisions go against you could be the difference between millions of pounds in income and people's livelihoods. Based on the whim of a few people officiating a game. Can you afford to be getting it wrong? Take the Luton game - we seemed to be getting carded all the time and they got virtually none. It was ridiculous given what i saw going on.
Let's take handball. You've had things like 'unintentional' or ' 'unnatural position'. Having played defender in my younger years I know how annoying all these interpretations are. If you're running the arm naturally swings. If you slide they naturally extend. But if you do that chances are you'll get penalised even though there's nothing unnatural about it. But you can say it affected the ball and the chance for the opposition to continue so worthy of being penalised. But the ball can also be affected by a hand by someone's side with a ball shot it from close range. The hand is in both a natural place and unintentional so no penalty. But that shot may have been heading into the net so it affected the scoring opportunity - surely that needs to be taken into consideration if you're using it in the other example?
Similar with offside. If an attacker if offside but doesn't chase the ball or touch it then it's not offside. But that slight movement could lead to a defender slightly altering position as a precaution providing an opportunity for another attacking to find a gap and score. So that offside player had an effect on the outcome. meanwhile a defender down injured on the goalline clearly not affecting play can play an attacker onside. How is that remotely justifiable?
For me it has to be more standardised. Handball is handball regardless but the sanctions for it are much reduced, esp in the penalty area where it's only an indirect free-kick. Offside is offside regardless of if you touch the ball. If you're on the pitch you're trying to affect the game.
As for natural break in play, an average football will see the ball in play for about an hour. The game 'stops' for goal-kicks, corners, free-kicks, penalties, subs and even throw-ins.
Johhny Blue
Well-Known Member
It’s fake news. They’re trying to hide the fact that all the refs are against us
GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee
Well-Known Member
I've heard this idea on podcasts and like the idea a lot. A penalty is a ridiculous punishment for an unintentional handball. Making every time the ball touches a hand, handball, and making the punishment an indirect free kick (unless intentional like goal line save etc) seems on the face of it a very sensible idea and one I can get behind.
SkyBlueDom26
Well-Known Member
Maybe if the twats stopped giving soft penalties/reds against us then we wouldn't have to moan about it, they have been awful
HuckerbyDublinWhelan
Well-Known Member
I remember when we got relegated from the championship - we lost 2-0 at Forest - Clattenburg was the ref. Used to think he was shit but even though we lost he was class.
I had a new found respect for him after that game. He was good and he knew he was
I had a new found respect for him after that game. He was good and he knew he was
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
The corner given against us at Rotherham should be near the top of the list. Still can’t fathom it
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
Agree that consistency is the issue. The exact same foul feels like a yellow for us and nothing for them at the moment.
Johhny Blue
Well-Known Member
Referees don’t make the laws. They just enforce them.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Football has laws not rules lol
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
As an aside my son and I are trying to complete our training and there are no courses cause of covid and no plans. Idiots
Skybluefaz
Well-Known Member
The general standard in this country is probably relatively high. I'll admit I haven't watched much European/World football lately so I'm guessing. I do feel for a lot of the refs, it's a tough job and it's getting harder to get refs at grassroots level. Not a surprise when they get threatened for giving a throw the wrong way in an under 12s game. Mike Reilly needs to fuck off into the distance though, I didn't rate him as a top level ref and some of the judgement calls on VAR and the handball rule have been farcical.
SkyBlueSid
Well-Known Member
We were entitled to think it would improve as we would be getting 'Select 2' group referees as opposed to National group. Sadly, it hasn't happened and the standard has been very poor.
I am a former referee myself and regularly post on a refereeing forum. The general consensus is that Select 2 is extremely weak at the moment, no better than those in the National. This is bad news all round as Select 2 is supposed to be the training ground for Select 1, but there is nobody pushing for promotion. The system has clogged up with timeservers and plodders (think Trevor Kettle) and much of the blame is at the door of Mike Riley. He was a lousy Premier referee and is an even worse administrator.
Warwickhunt
Well-Known Member
laws should not be interpreted by the refs as in their opinion! if its a penalty for one side then its a penalty for the other! i see the ref give a soft penalty against us and then deny us a penalty when the defender has nearly cut our player in half only to see the ref wave play on. does my fucking head in
Londonccfcfan
Well-Known Member
Agree it's much better.
Londonccfcfan
Well-Known Member
On the subject of VAR. If you have to look at 10 replays to get a decision then it's plain and simple not a clear and obvious error! Carry on playing! The original decision stands.
Need something along the lines of cricket where you have an umpires call.
Ridiculous with the amount of money in this level the authorities make things more difficult and complicated when it's the simplest of sports.
Need something along the lines of cricket where you have an umpires call.
Ridiculous with the amount of money in this level the authorities make things more difficult and complicated when it's the simplest of sports.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Except some things are subjective and called in the blink of an eye from a one off angle.
Gosb
Well-Known Member
I knew that if I stuck with this forum long enough I'd read something eminently sensible......and here it is. Thank you GMK for articulating what so many of us feel. When the history books are written the demise of the beautiful game will be traced back to the introduction of VAR.
skybluesam66
Well-Known Member
we get much better ones than when we were further down the leagues