Take the knee (5 Viewers)

[David O'Day]

Yet they will wear Hugo Boss gear and not be labelled a Nazi when Hugo Boss was a massive Nazi. Can I boo any Hugo Boss wearers? Should I boo myself when I wear my Boss stuff? It's so confusing.

Yep let's boo anyone who wears Adidas, they are Nazis using the same weird logic that anyone who kneels against racism is supporting BLM.


I do like the people falling over themselves to defend the racist cunts who support a racist club.

 

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[Nick]

Only because they want to, for whatever reason. Why would they not associate Boss with the Nazis when he literally made the fucking uniforms? Because they don't want to, for whatever reason.

It isn't about wanting to, it isn't about people who are trying to drive home a political agenda. That will instinctively be the first thing people will think of when you say "take the knee" over here. Some will say the NFL, some will say George Floyd etc.

It's not much different to people kicking off about slavery while wearing Nikes or gimps wanting to be Tommy Robinson's mate with a Union Jack Tattoo drinking Stella, eating a curry, driving a VW and watching their Japanese TV after being treated by an Indian Nurse.

 

[Nick]

Yep let's boo anyone who wears Adidas, they are Nazis using the same weird logic that anyone who kneels against racism is supporting BLM.


I do like the people falling over themselves to defend the racist cunts who support a racist club.

It's people like you who want to do your best to blur things.

It isn't defending a racist to point out what people will associate taking the knee with. It really isn't hard to understand, unless you are a gimp who spends their days telling everybody they are racist and droning on about politics.

Like it or not, the whole taking the knee is associated with BLM over here. People will instantly think that because of how it only started then.

Not sure why it's so hard to grasp. It isn't being racist to point that out or defending anybody.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

It's times like this, I regret forgetting to take off notifications for this thread...

 

[hill83]

For what it’s worth I don’t see an issue with it being associated with BLM and nobody I know does either. So there’s that.

But that’s the thing people are using as a reason to be against the gesture. And if it wasn’t that it would be the next thing. Boring. We literally can’t win.

 

[hill83]

Would a black person boo players talking the knee? Hmmm........ maybe John Barnes and old Les.

I’ll let you know what the next plan is Nick and run it by you first.

 

[Nick]

For what it’s worth I don’t see an issue with it being associated with BLM and nobody I know does either. So there’s that.

But that’s the thing people are using as a reason to be against the gesture. And if it wasn’t that it would be the next thing. Boring. We literally can’t win.

That's the thing about the education side of it though.

If somebody boos or disagrees, at least ask them what they disagree with instead of just saying "Nope you are a racist you are gone". They might well be racist and disagree with anti-discrimination because they are cunts, they may well just think its all about BLM and smashing up statues etc.

That's just been the point as the gesture started at the same time as BLM and because of it so that's why there is disagreements and confusion.

Not saying I agree, as I have said I wouldn't boo and won't when we go back in.

 

[hill83]

If somebody boos or disagrees, at least ask them what they disagree with

Don’t think I want to if I’m being honest. Ha ha

 

[Nick]

Would a black person boo players talking the knee? Hmmm........ maybe John Barnes and old Les.

I’ll let you know what the next plan is Nick and run it by you first.

Plenty of Black people disagree with BLM for various reasons, it doesn't mean they don't want to stop discrimination does it?

I am just pointing out that as it is linked to BLM that's why some may have an issue with it. Some are just straight up racists.

 

[SBT]

For what it’s worth I don’t see an issue with it being associated with BLM and nobody I know does either. So there’s that.

But that’s the thing people are using as a reason to be against the gesture. And if it wasn’t that it would be the next thing. Boring. We literally can’t win.

Unfortunately some people's ideas of an ideal anti-racism protest is one that doesn't force them to think or be inconvenienced by it at all.

 

[hill83]

Me: “What do you disagree with buddy?”

Bloke:
“The kneeling is supporting BLM and I don’t like BLM”

Me:
“Well actually it isn’t and has been stated many times that it isn’t, including from the Millwall playe-“

Bloke:
“BOOOOOOOOOOO”

I mean that’s how it’s gone down time and time again in this thread. So good luck in the terraces. And it’s not for me or people like me to educate people that don’t listen.

 

[Otis]

Would a black person boo players talking the knee?

I suppose it depends on whether they were Marxist or not.

 

[Skybluefaz]

Ha ha the magic of the internet. I don't want your fascist threads!

 

[Nick]

Me: “What do you disagree with buddy?”

Bloke:
“The kneeling is supporting BLM and I don’t like BLM”

Me:
“Well actually it isn’t and has been stated many times that it isn’t, including from the Millwall playe-“

Bloke:
“BOOOOOOOOOOO”

I mean that’s how it’s gone down time and time again in this thread. So good luck in the terraces. And it’s not for me or people like me to educate people that don’t listen.

That's been my point, people will associate it with that both because they want to if they are racists or just by everything drilled into them over the past few months so they do it without realising that's what they link "taking the knee" with.

Which is it should have distanced from BLM way back months ago and just be "anti-discrimination" without the politics and educate as politics were brought into it months ago from all sides.

There's then the mentalists making out the players who do it are in some sort of cult and others like D'OD who take it to the extreme at the opposite end thinking everybody is going to a KKK meet.

Surely the approach should be educating people in the terraces and not leaving things wide open to interpretation and politics which is then things will get blurred either purposely or just naturally with public reaction / media over the months? BLM was politically charged months ago and you only have to see a thread on here that starts about politics so when a message is "BLM" you get all sorts of cunts trying to swing it their way just based on politics.

(No, I know it isn't your job personally but that's what should be happening!)

 

[hill83]

Which is it should have distanced from BLM way back months ago and just be "anti-discrimination"

10th September, before this season started.

 

[Nick]

10th September

Fucking hell, feels like years ago.

 

[hill83]

So is 3 months ago not far enough back? How far in the future do we need to go to make early September far enough back to stop people booing? Another month? 2?

 

[Nick]

So is 3 months ago not far enough back? How far in the future do we need to go to make early September far enough back to stop people booing?

My point was that it shouldn't have been a political thing brought into football when they did that with BLM.

An anti discrimination / racism message, of course but not something that had been going on with politics and then used by all "sides" and "parties" over the previous months then being brought into it.

 

[MusicDating]

Me: “What do you disagree with buddy?”

Bloke:
“The kneeling is supporting BLM and I don’t like BLM”

Me:
“Well actually it isn’t and has been stated many times that it isn’t, including from the Millwall playe-“

Bloke:
“BOOOOOOOOOOO”

I mean that’s how it’s gone down time and time again in this thread. So good luck in the terraces. And it’s not for me or people like me to educate people that don’t listen.

The problem is, you've got the likes of the Daily Mail 'educating' readers that the BLM are a nasty organisation and for them the association is now ingrained (which is I believe what Nick was trying to explain).

Take a look at the tone of the headlines on virtually every BLM article on the Mail website - Black Lives Matter: News and Updates on Murder Investigation | Daily Mail Online and look at the votes on their article about the supposed political aims of BLM UK - Revealed: The avowed aims of the British arm of Black Lives Matter Yes, I know the articles are likely to be written to please the types of people who sign up to the Mail website, but those numbers are depressing. Sadly it seems some people will now have been brainwashed into believing BLM is bad and whether they're racist/ignorant/uneducated/easily led, some will boo players taking the knee.

I don't have an answer of how to solve it. Banning fans will make others more militant and defiant and more likely to boo. Stop the knee and it seems like the racists are winning.

 

[Nick]

The problem is, you've got the likes of the Daily Mail 'educating' readers that the BLM are a nasty organisation and for them the association is now ingrained (which is I believe what Nick was trying to explain).

Take a look at the tone of the headlines on virtually every BLM article on the Mail website - Black Lives Matter: News and Updates on Murder Investigation | Daily Mail Online and look at the votes on their article about the supposed political aims of BLM UK - Revealed: The avowed aims of the British arm of Black Lives Matter Yes, I know the articles are likely to be written to please the types of people who sign up to the Mail website, but those numbers are depressing. Sadly it seems some people will now have been brainwashed into believing BLM is bad and whether they're racist/ignorant/uneducated/easily led, some will boo players taking the knee.

I don't have an answer of how to solve it. Banning fans will make others more militant and defiant and more likely to boo. Stop the knee and it seems like the racists are winning.

Thats what I mean about the politics of it all when it was brought in. For weeks (maybe months) over the summer in the news every day it as BLM whether a peaceful protest, stuff being smashed up etc depending on what time etc so people will have had their minds made up on "Black Lives Matter" as a thing rather than "Anti Racism".

Taking "BLM" into football was then taking all of that into the game and taking the knee which was seen as "BLM" which blurred it all because of the politics that people had been seeing for months before.

If for example it was "No Room for Racism" and before every game the players united to show a banner or something (yeah I know that's now been done) and a video shown on the screen with somebody talking about racism from all races (African, Caribbean, Asian, etc etc) with hard hitting stories then would that have got the same reaction? No doubt there would be racists but as it wouldn't start with everybodies mind already made up about "BLM" as a thing it would have gone much further to educate and change things.

That's all I have been trying to get across rather than "I don't want any anti-discrimination" in football like some would try to push.

 

[clint van damme]

The problem is, you've got the likes of the Daily Mail 'educating' readers that the BLM are a nasty organisation and for them the association is now ingrained (which is I believe what Nick was trying to explain).

Take a look at the tone of the headlines on virtually every BLM article on the Mail website - Black Lives Matter: News and Updates on Murder Investigation | Daily Mail Online and look at the votes on their article about the supposed political aims of BLM UK - Revealed: The avowed aims of the British arm of Black Lives Matter Yes, I know the articles are likely to be written to please the types of people who sign up to the Mail website, but those numbers are depressing. Sadly it seems some people will now have been brainwashed into believing BLM is bad and whether they're racist/ignorant/uneducated/easily led, some will boo players taking the knee.

I don't have an answer of how to solve it. Banning fans will make others more militant and defiant and more likely to boo. Stop the knee and it seems like the racists are winning.

I don't think fans of clubs should be banned for booing, it's their right to boo if they want.
But when the support of a club with a history of racism do it don't be surprised when people call them racist for fucks sake. People rushing to defend them is bizarre.

It's like a teenage boy whose mum has caught him wanking on numerous occasions trying to insist that on this occasion the cum encrusted sock on the bedroom floor is nothing to do with him.

 

[hill83]

My point was that it shouldn't have been a political thing brought into football when they did that with BLM.

An anti discrimination / racism message, of course but not something that had been going on with politics and then used by all "sides" and "parties" over the previous months then being brought into it.

Yeah but they did, can’t change that.
Now it’s not that.

 

[Nick]

Yeah but they did, can’t change that.
Now it’s not that.

So it should be about educating more and distancing from it as much as possible.

Everybody has had that drilled into them for months so a statement from players saying "It isn't BLM when we do something that originally was for BLM" and "We are blacklivesmatter.org but we are nothing to do with blacklivesmatter.com and blacklivesmatter.us" is just going to get the actual message blurred (which it shouldn't).

 

[hill83]

I’ll be honest Nick. I don’t think anything will make any difference and we are just going round in circles so I’m ducking out before I say something I regret.

 

[clint van damme]

So it should be about educating more and distancing from it as much as possible.

Everybody has had that drilled into them for months so a statement from players saying "It isn't BLM when we do something that originally was for BLM" and "We are blacklivesmatter.org but we are nothing to do with blacklivesmatter.com and blacklivesmatter.us" is just going to get the actual message blurred (which it shouldn't).

Kick out were saying last year that we are going backward in this country, long before BLM and take the knee. Why have they been ignored?

 

[Nick]

I’ll be honest Nick. I don’t think anything will make any difference and we are just going round in circles so I’m ducking out before I say something I regret.

I am only droning on because I want it to make a difference and pointing out one of the reasons it isn't as much as it could. Same when I bang on about the Trust!!

 

[Nick]

Kick out were saying last year that we are going backward in this country, long before BLM and take the knee. Why have they been ignored?

They shouldn't be, it's as simple as that.

Whether it is clubs promoting it, players giving time to help promote it and raise awareness.

 

[MusicDating]

I don't think fans of clubs should be banned for booing, it's their right to boo if they want.
But when the support of a club with a history of racism do it don't be surprised when people call them racist for fucks sake. People rushing to defend them is bizarre.

It's like a teenage boy whose mum has caught him wanking on numerous occasions trying to insist that on this occasion the cum encrusted sock on the bedroom floor is nothing to do with him.

Oh spot on re Millwall; racists and wankers (nice analogy btw!). but can that explain Colchester, Exeter and Cambridge? And this is only with season ticket holders watching.

The saddest thing about this thread is the evident despair that Hill feels.

 

[Nick]

The saddest thing about this thread is the evident despair that Hill feels.

Thats what I mean and feel bad about droning on, because of politics from righties and lefties all jumping on for their own gain and push their own agendas. The actual "Stop Discrimination" is polluted with all the toxic shite.

 

[Jamesimus]

Thats what I mean and feel bad about droning on, because of politics from righties and lefties all jumping on for their own gain and push their own agendas. The actual "Stop Discrimination" is polluted with all the toxic shite.

How can a serious movement not also be about politics and still attempt to address to many facets of racism?

 

[Nick]

How can a serious movement not also be about politics and still attempt to address to many facets of racism?

Football can still educate and raise awareness massively without it being political like BLM.

 

[SBT]

I am only droning on because I want it to make a difference and pointing out one of the reasons it isn't as much as it could. Same when I bang on about the Trust!!

Your idea of "making a difference" seems kind of similar to "not really doing very much" in practice though. (You still haven't told me I'm wrong about complaining about No Room For Racism)

 

[Jamesimus]

Football can still educate and raise awareness massively without it being political like BLM.

"Okay guys, we have to have an awkward conversation about racism with some Millwall fans, but whatever you do, don't talk about socio-economic differences, policing, housing, patriotism/nationalism and the role that plays, anti-immigration rhetoric, **checks notes*** windrush too, don't mention any of that. Just talk about the easy-to-understand stuff; bad words you shouldn't use and make sure the person leading the conversation is white, because, you know, Millwall."

 

[Nick]

Your idea of "making a difference" seems kind of similar to "not really doing very much" in practice though. (You still haven't told me I'm wrong about complaining about No Room For Racism)

I said, it was about the gesture that was the issue because it was linked to BLM and that's how people perceive it now. Much like if I said I was saluting to remember something then people perceive it as the Nazis.

 

[Nick]

"Okay guys, we have to have an awkward conversation about racism with some Millwall fans, but whatever you do, don't talk about socio-economic differences, policing, housing, patriotism/nationalism and the role that plays, anti-immigration rhetoric, **checks notes*** windrush too, don't mention any of that. Just talk about the easy-to-understand stuff; bad words you shouldn't use and make sure the person leading the conversation is white, because, you know, Millwall."

That's where you have to find a balance, don't you? Make it relatable and break it down.

Nothing wrong with awkward conversations, I mean some find it awkward hearing issues people have with "BLM" as a thing and just labelling them as a racist instantly.

The thing is, people want awkward conversations and free speech but it has to be 2 way doesn't it? Instead it just seems to be sometimes "agree else you are racist".