Was Shipley injured ? (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter Kilclines curly mullet
- Start date
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
He took a knock yes, but he wasn't limping when he went off.
The more I think about MR's comments, the more I think he subbed him off for tactical reasons. If he was genuinely injured beyond recovery then surely that would have been said rather than the semantics that seemed to come out in the interview. It was like he felt he should defend him, but couldn't fully commit to it.
I think he needs a break because he has been woeful this season. I hope he can come back from it, but his effort is not good enough at the moment. Even if you're out of form you have to grind and he isn't doing that. If anything you would think he was the one that had done his ACL 3 times the way he is hiding from any physical contact.
The more I think about MR's comments, the more I think he subbed him off for tactical reasons. If he was genuinely injured beyond recovery then surely that would have been said rather than the semantics that seemed to come out in the interview. It was like he felt he should defend him, but couldn't fully commit to it.
I think he needs a break because he has been woeful this season. I hope he can come back from it, but his effort is not good enough at the moment. Even if you're out of form you have to grind and he isn't doing that. If anything you would think he was the one that had done his ACL 3 times the way he is hiding from any physical contact.
stevefloyd
Well-Known Member
I am not sure if he had covid or was with someone who had tested positive. I have slated Shipley a lot mainly because of his lack of tackling ambition and his constant giving the ball away while not being under pressure and now he thinks he's turned into Messi with his little flicks that invariably go to the opposition, he always seems reluctant to get involved in games doesn't usually give an outlet to our left back. Now I can see this and plenty of other people can also see this, he's one of our own !!! so does that excuse him from crticism...Max has been absolutely lambasted by some on here but with his limited ability he does at least try. If Shipley was battling I am sure the majority of fans would not be slating his performances, I would rather come on here and be praising all our players but if they play bad its the nature of the beast to say something about it!
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
I didn't go to Stoke in the cup (what a prat!), but listened on 5Live.
Waddle was absolutely raving about Bayliss.
The Philosopher
Well-Known Member
I’ve watched every minute of his play (like many others have) on Sky or IFollow this season.
I’ve seen a number of badly misplaced passes, needless fouls in dangerous positions, losing possession cheaply, making the wrong runs / not making any run, dwelling on the ball and losing, slowing down our own potential breaks and costing opportunities, giving away penalties, I could go on.
Now in fairness, a few glimpses of quality.
The acid test: choice between:
Hamer (champ quality)
Kelly (IMO champ quality)
Sheaf
I know who I’d play (ok one could waffle about depends who we are playing blah f blah)
Sheaf, in my opinion isn’t quite at Championship level YET.
You say that he is. That’s your opinion and you are entitled to it.
PS. Specsavers are open again.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I went to that one and was called a die hard supporter for knowing who McNulty was when a press photographer asked
The Philosopher
Well-Known Member
Shipley seemed (IIRC) to play better when Doyle was in the team. May be having a midfield Marshall alongside him suited Shipley - gave him confidence to try things knowing that Doyler was backing him up / knew what he was doing.
Unsure how many games Kelly / Shipley have paired up.
It’s not that Shipley has all of a sudden become a bad player, he just needs to be part of the right dynamic. Maybe he and Hamer will get into tune, or another strong deep midfielder.
Skybluefaz
Well-Known Member
He's playing in a league where time and space is harder to come by. We are also often having less possession than the league 2 league 1 days. Shipperz doesn't win himself the ball so more and more things pass him by. He becomes a passenger and I don't see the solution.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
or maybe Shipley just hasn't got the ability to make the step up.
I really hope he does but he looks to be really struggling and devoid of confidence but he has only been in this league for a few months so there's time yet but I wouldn't say its looking good at the moment.
He's helped his hometown club crawl back from their darkest hour and been involved in some really memorable games so fair play to the lad, if this is the end of the line for his city career he'll go down in history as far as I'm concerned and if he plays out the rest of his days in L1 that's not a bad way to make a living.
Frostie
Well-Known Member
Utterly crazy.
I don't think you understand what Sheaf's role in the team is.
This narrative that he gives the ball away a lot is 100% demonstrably false. He's not just our best player for ball retention (by far) but one of the best in the entire league. Look at the amount of tackles he wins, blocks he makes etc. Not only best midfielder in our team for all those categories but all up there with the best midfield players in the Championship.
Yes he makes mistakes (not as many as some of the favourites mind) but he's only 22 & has an incredibly high ceiling of potential. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see him eventually play in the Premier League.
D
Deleted member 11652
Guest
He’s definitely one of those players whose underlying stats are better than his performances on the eye
johnwillomagic
Well-Known Member
I think Shipley will not be in the squad Wednesday partly due to knock and partly due to taking out of the firing line.
However hope I'm wrong if fit gives us an option from the bench.
However hope I'm wrong if fit gives us an option from the bench.
SBAndy
Well-Known Member
Sheaf will be a victim of this for a while yet. The errors he does make are horrendous which clouds the overall performances he turns in. Think a year of bedding in will suit him.
On Shipley, I think we may have advanced a little too quickly for him and he’s maybe a season behind in terms of development. It’s a shame but I’d let him go to a top-end L1 team as I’m sure there’d be a market for him. Then we can replace him with Alex Mowatt from Barnsley on a free transfer at the end of the season (yes, that’s a bit of a stretch).
Kilclines curly mullet
Well-Known Member
Just out of interest, do you think he is good enough ? And if so, on what basis ?
DannyThomas_1981
Well-Known Member
Good job he didn't ask Clive.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
He had to go about 4 or 5 rows up because nobody recognised the player. Did occur to me I could have called him 'Phil McCrack' and he'd have been none the wiser
Hutch11
Well-Known Member
I think he's got the potential to be good enough and more importantly MR thinks he's good enough and I'll admit to conceding that MR has considerably more knowledge on the subject than me
Kilclines curly mullet
Well-Known Member
After Saturday I’m not sure MR does think he is good enough. In fact he didn’t make the first 11 for the final 3rd of last season very often.
i don’t buy the injury on Sat. Shipley was ineffective before his knock and hasn’t looked comfortable all season.
cc84cov
Well-Known Member
With more budget he wouldn’t be anywhere near the starting 11
Frostie
Well-Known Member
Unconvinced. His performance v Swansea was very good but he's not looked close to replicating that since. Definitely looks short of confidence.
Sky Blue Harry H
Well-Known Member
I have no problem if you don't rate Shippers and yes he g=has been struggling, but what are you on re: 'not buying the injury?' Do you think he thought, 'I'll hobble and pretend I'm injured so the manager can sub me?' No player who wants his place in the team is going to do that. I assume you were watching, but he pushed their player in the back but then caught his knee in the process, and was hobbling straight away. P.S. Kelly wasn't faking his groin strain either.
Frostie
Well-Known Member
Exactly.
If you paid to watch the game on iFollow you can rewatch it, it's clear as day. About 24mins in to the match. He initially appears to make a signal to the bench but tries to carry on.
Mark Robins:
“He got clattered on his knee, I think, and he was sort of feeling his knee but you can’t carry anyone, and really I made that decision on the back of him holding his leg. And with everything else that’s going on around the place, with people feeling things and a lot of fatigue going on, and people getting injuries and the worry around suspensions, we have to be very careful.”
Hutch11
Well-Known Member
With more budget we'd be Liverpool
cc84cov
Well-Known Member
With more of a budget on par with championship clubs
Skybluebeliever
Well-Known Member
Totally agree about Shipley being needed , he will have good games and bad games , I think Allen Giles , sheaf will be in this category because of our budget these are the type of players w
have a look at the 30th minute when shipley is subbed no one from the bench says anything to him as he walks past
Frostie
Well-Known Member
He has words with the Club Doctor who then follows him off.
Almost as if he was injured...
Esoterica
Well-Known Member
Shipley has two really strong qualities - his running beyond the strikers and his 20-25 yard finishing. If I was to pick his weaknesses - he doesn't have any tenacity in the tackle or air, he's not a natural dribbler and his first touch can be inconsistent.
In L1 we played attractive passing football, he had more time on the ball, more players (and therefore passing options) around him and that minimised his weaknesses while allowing his areas of strength to come to the fore. He was a touch, pass, move and pop up somewhere dangerous around the box type midfielder.
This season, the top of the box midfielders have been isolated with the DMs sitting deep defending and WBs not getting forward as often. The opposition have often had player advantage in his zone of the pitch and we have a lot less possession and play a longer more direct style. All these things mean more emphasis on first touch, less options to pass to when you do get the ball under control and he isn't able to carry the ball alone in the way O'Hare can. It's also a faster and stronger league with less mistakes - he could jockey in L1 and L2 and the mistake would come without needing to win the ball outright. Not anymore.
Unfortunately for him, the Championship, and the way we are forced to play there to be competitive, highlight his weaknesses while nullifying the strengths somewhat.
In summary, I think another year in L1 would have benefited him most as he was developing nicely there - his final ball and passing in the final third was vastly superior last year compared to the first season back in L1. It's a long season though and there's still time to adapt and step up and I'm sure he'll get plenty more minutes this year to see if he can raise his ceiling. For me, he's earned that right without having the same people who have been saying he is shit for 4 seasons getting on his back for a few sub-par performances, especially when the team overall is exceeding expectations.
In L1 we played attractive passing football, he had more time on the ball, more players (and therefore passing options) around him and that minimised his weaknesses while allowing his areas of strength to come to the fore. He was a touch, pass, move and pop up somewhere dangerous around the box type midfielder.
This season, the top of the box midfielders have been isolated with the DMs sitting deep defending and WBs not getting forward as often. The opposition have often had player advantage in his zone of the pitch and we have a lot less possession and play a longer more direct style. All these things mean more emphasis on first touch, less options to pass to when you do get the ball under control and he isn't able to carry the ball alone in the way O'Hare can. It's also a faster and stronger league with less mistakes - he could jockey in L1 and L2 and the mistake would come without needing to win the ball outright. Not anymore.
Unfortunately for him, the Championship, and the way we are forced to play there to be competitive, highlight his weaknesses while nullifying the strengths somewhat.
In summary, I think another year in L1 would have benefited him most as he was developing nicely there - his final ball and passing in the final third was vastly superior last year compared to the first season back in L1. It's a long season though and there's still time to adapt and step up and I'm sure he'll get plenty more minutes this year to see if he can raise his ceiling. For me, he's earned that right without having the same people who have been saying he is shit for 4 seasons getting on his back for a few sub-par performances, especially when the team overall is exceeding expectations.
Hobo
Well-Known Member
Most the squad aren't good enough for this level, after two successive promotions. It wont be until we have at least three transfer windows (and I am not countinting those January fiascoes) that we should have a reasonable first 11 and bench. Shipley is actually one who might step up, still a very young player. Okay he is not going to be a Maddison - but good enough to progress and perhap stick around for our benefit.
Hobo
Well-Known Member
Not a very constructive comment. We dont really have a budget to compete at this level and we all know he wouldnt make Norwich or Bournemouths squads.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
You could say that about literally any player in almost any team.
Yep. His reaction after he misplaces a pass says it all - head down.
He won't be a maddison. He doesn't tackle, gives the ball away consistently and isn't very creative. If he wasn't from cov and given his Teflon status by the fans he wouldn't be at the club.
stevefloyd
Well-Known Member
He had moments in league 1 and I praised those moments but I also said during and after those moments that he needed to concentrate more because he was doing some things very well then under no pressure give the ball straight to the opposition and undoing his good work, now this wasn't a 1 off he was doing it all the time he was on the pitch, this was soooo frustrating because he wouldn't appear to try and win the ball back that he had just given away he just loafed his way back towards our goal. He has now picked up the habit of pushing people in the back and doesn't try and make any tackle whatsoever. Now, I am sure that everyone who watches our games can see for their selves his lack of tackling or should I say non existent tackling, also his closing down/chasing down the opponent or the ball he doesn't even appear to be wanting to get close enough to make a tackle because he looks shit scared. I haven't written this to try and point score over the lad but these are the very basics of a footballer and he isn't doing them...why?... why hasn't Robins and the coaching staff got him doing these things?
Shipley at times has played some killer balls and has a very good shot on him but atm he is well off the pace/standard that is required for a battle on the pitch and as I have said before 'I wouldn't like him to be next to me in the trenches' !
Robins clearly needs to either instill some confidence in him or get him out the team/squad but is hampered by our limited squad, Pask is not the best we have seen so far but is surely more commited than Shipley but doesn't get a look in the majority of the time and yes I do know he doesn't play in Shipleys position
Shipley at times has played some killer balls and has a very good shot on him but atm he is well off the pace/standard that is required for a battle on the pitch and as I have said before 'I wouldn't like him to be next to me in the trenches' !
Robins clearly needs to either instill some confidence in him or get him out the team/squad but is hampered by our limited squad, Pask is not the best we have seen so far but is surely more commited than Shipley but doesn't get a look in the majority of the time and yes I do know he doesn't play in Shipleys position
mrtrench
Well-Known Member
That's a commute too far. I hope we don't get a bigger budget as it would rule me out of attending home games.