Chris Coleman (7 Viewers)

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Magwitch

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Apparently odds slashed on Chris Coleman becoming the next Sheffield Wednesday manager, surely not, but as they say footballs’ a funny old game.
 
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Deleted member 4439

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Just amazing how the guy keeps rinsing it. There again, it's like a lot of IT contractors I know.
 
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Deleted member 4439

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His only claim to success is that he once had the privilege of being associated with Gareth Bale for a while.
 
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Deleted member 4439

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play_in_skyblue_stripes said:
As an IT contractor myself I agree a wide range of calibre but also wide range of hiring managers and agencies too.
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Happy to qualify that. As a civil servant in IT, I'd say that if we didn't have the skills and experience of many, many of our IT contractors, then we'd be in (more) trouble. I recognise this and in fact, when I was in role as a Portfolio Test Manager I built up a team of 15 individuals, only one of whom was a permie and who I only grudgingly employed. And I have continued (until recently, another story) to bask in the reflected glories of some pretty magical IT contractors.

At the same time, I've seen plenty who have conned their way through gigs here and elsewhere, sometimes returning to my org, and getting away with long enough to have made a nice sum. Worse are the gangsters who sweep departments, bring all their mates in, destroy the careers of permies, cause chaos, and deliver jack-shit.

Of course, the average civil servant doesn't add a lot of value, but then they are in place to provide at least some level of continuity and are cheap as chips.
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

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dubed said:
Happy to qualify that. As a civil servant in IT, I'd say that if we didn't have the skills and experience of many, many of our IT contractors, then we'd be in (more) trouble. I recognise this and in fact, when I was in role as a Portfolio Test Manager I built up a team of 15 individuals, only one of whom was a permie and who I only grudgingly employed. And I have continued (until recently, another story) to bask in the reflected glories of some pretty magical IT contractors.

At the same time, I've seen plenty who have conned their way through gigs here and elsewhere, sometimes returning to my org, and getting away with long enough to have made a nice sum. Worse are the gangsters who sweep departments, bring all their mates in, destroy the careers of permies, cause chaos, and deliver jack-shit.

Of course, the average civil servant doesn't add a lot of value, but then they are in place to provide at least some level of continuity and are cheap as chips.
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When I worked at Cheylesmore House that first floor was packed with contractors, must have cost a fortune.
 
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fernandopartridge said:
When I worked at Cheylesmore House that first floor was packed with contractors, must have cost a fortune.
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Yup. My directorate probably has a headcount of 400, the majority of whom are IT contractors. Part of the problem, rife through all departments, is that hierarchy is valued as much more important than IT skills and experience. There are some IT roles, such as architects, database administrators, and developers that will only ever be filled by contractors, as the rates required to attract the required skills and experience would take you into senior manager civil service grades.

So rather than paying a DBA 60K a year (rather than the current 35-38k), we choose instead to pay an IT contractor £130-150k a year. We probably have 9 architects in our dept, all contractors, with rates ranging between 800-1k a day. One or two have been here for more than 5 years. There are still a couple of testers here that I brought in 8 years ago!
 
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fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
dubed said:
Yup. My directorate probably has a headcount of 400, the majority of whom are IT contractors. Part of the problem, rife through all departments, is that hierarchy is valued as much more important than IT skills and experience. There are some IT roles, such as architects, database administrators, and developers that will only ever be filled by contractors, as the rates required to attract the required skills and experience would take you into senior manager civil service grades.

So rather than paying a DBA 60K a year (rather than the current 35-38k), we choose instead to pay an IT contractor £130-150k a year. We probably have 9 architects in our dept, all contractors, with rates ranging between 800-1k a day. One or two have been here for more than 5 years. There are still a couple of testers here that I brought in 8 years ago!
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I worked at NHS Digital recently and they employed Tech Archs but paid them 8b and 8c salary which is equivalent to SCS Grade 7 or 6 pay wise. I think the departments don't mind paying contractors as they get away with using programme money sometimes. It's utterly dysfunctional and unsustainable.
 
Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
In fairness to Coleman, he did a great job at Wales. However, his career before and after his career highlight has been pretty mediocre - at best.

By all means, I think Coleman would be a great appointment for Sheffield Wednesday. For us.
 
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Deleted member 2477

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Mucca Mad Boys said:
In fairness to Coleman, he did a great job at Wales. However, his career before and after his career highlight has been pretty mediocre - at best.

By all means, I think Coleman would be a great appointment for Sheffield Wednesday. For us.
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The only reason he did well with Wales was because he had Bale.As soon as he got injured Coleman was shown for what he is a poor manager
 
Mucca Mad Boys

Mucca Mad Boys

Well-Known Member
Evo1883 said:
Gary Speed set that in motion, Coleman took the glory... He's a terrible manager
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marcusp said:
The only reason he did well with Wales was because he had Bale.As soon as he got injured Coleman was shown for what he is a poor manager
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No denying Speed laid the groundwork, but Coleman came in and changed system to 5-3-2.

They had a solid setup, and had the likes of Bale, Williams, Allen and Ramsey who were all playing well. I had the pleasure of watching their 3-0 over Russia.

They got to the semi-finals of the Euros, credit is given where it’s due. Coleman deserves respect for that run.
 
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play_in_skyblue_stripes

Well-Known Member
dubed said:
Yup. My directorate probably has a headcount of 400, the majority of whom are IT contractors. Part of the problem, rife through all departments, is that hierarchy is valued as much more important than IT skills and experience. There are some IT roles, such as architects, database administrators, and developers that will only ever be filled by contractors, as the rates required to attract the required skills and experience would take you into senior manager civil service grades.

So rather than paying a DBA 60K a year (rather than the current 35-38k), we choose instead to pay an IT contractor £130-150k a year. We probably have 9 architects in our dept, all contractors, with rates ranging between 800-1k a day. One or two have been here for more than 5 years. There are still a couple of testers here that I brought in 8 years ago!
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Not quite the forum for an in depth discussion on pros and cons on contractor and permie hire. I have been both and genuinely seen things from both perspectives. I was a DBA for a few years too . Sounds like wherever you are are is good place and I'm currently available.!
 
mrtrench

mrtrench

Well-Known Member
dubed said:
Yup. My directorate probably has a headcount of 400, the majority of whom are IT contractors. Part of the problem, rife through all departments, is that hierarchy is valued as much more important than IT skills and experience. There are some IT roles, such as architects, database administrators, and developers that will only ever be filled by contractors, as the rates required to attract the required skills and experience would take you into senior manager civil service grades.

So rather than paying a DBA 60K a year (rather than the current 35-38k), we choose instead to pay an IT contractor £130-150k a year. We probably have 9 architects in our dept, all contractors, with rates ranging between 800-1k a day. One or two have been here for more than 5 years. There are still a couple of testers here that I brought in 8 years ago!
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There aren't many projects nowadays that don't impact many applications. You only need one poor manager to hamstring a business by hiring loads of dross. I think the very worst are the process-bound individuals, who have low ability but hide it by insisting in dotting every i within the process they have. It takes a very long time; they refuse to compromise their process even when against business imperatives and you get rubbish at the end.

At least with contractors you can get rid fast when someone better takes the helm.
 
M

Magwitch

Well-Known Member
Looks like Roy Keanes odds have jumped Chris Coleman’s, if I was a Wednesday fan I wouldn’t know whether to laugh or cry.
 
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gazza

Well-Known Member
covcity4life said:
He got us out joint best championship finish? Yet i see him as one of weakest managers we have had.

Weird one
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The backing and the players he had hes got to be the worst manager we’ve had since we got relegated from the premier league
 
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Deleted member 4439

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covcity4life said:
Slate will always take that one!
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But we were on a real downwards curve at that time, rock bottom. Obs, RS was terrible, as we all knew before we'd played our first game with him in charge. But Coleman had backing and pissed it up the wall without a clue. Nothing I have seen him do since has changed my opinion of him.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
dubed said:
But we were on a real downwards curve at that time, rock bottom. Obs, RS was terrible, as we all knew before we'd played our first game with him in charge. But Coleman had backing and pissed it up the wall without a clue. Nothing I have seen him do since has changed my opinion of him.
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Aiden McGeady in the documentary nailed it. They were deep in the mire and Coleman would still be talking of terrific performances while not really giving tactical instructions. Gareth Bale will let him rinse clubs for years to come though
 
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