Really, you don't get it?
Minority (8 Viewers)
- Thread starter Gaz
- Start date
Really, you don't get it?
He can't you know lol
This one has already been debunked to. Thorn is Sisu's man - it's undeniable.
usskyblue
Well-Known Member
Nick
Administrator
Didn't you know?
You either want to make love to Thorn or have him killed by a pack of Wolves, there is no in between.
The same with SISU
Nick
Administrator
How very dare you...Mine is sky blue
DiveDiveWhereverYouMayBe
New Member
Alright, you have reeled me in enough. I haven't said this for a few weeks, granted. My viewpoints are thus and refer exclusively to last season as I don't think he has done too much wrong in the close season...
Andy Thorn was not the greatest manager in the Championship.
He lacked experience and it showed at times with naivety in systems and substitutions.
At times, his post match interviews grated as we witnessed another loss and the team we all support drifting closer to the lowest level of football I have seen us play in my lifetime.
The more experienced players were often uninspired, when we needed them to turn up most.
However, in the matches I witnessed, I did not see such a great propensity of managerial errors (tactical, substitutes, etc.) that led me to believe he was enemy no. 1 to our Championship status.
I remember with fondness the effect he had on taking over from Boothroyd.
I like to see football played more like Spain than Stoke... it counts for little without the results, but if we start getting a few more results this season then I would be happier watching Thorn's brand of football than I would several of our recent managers.
I believe he was dealt an extremely tricky hand by his employers (not the luckiest manager around because he could do no wrong, I think that underestimates the amount he wanted to do well with Coventry City Football Club).
I do not think he is SISU's yes man because he stayed in his first managerial position of his career.
I think some of the accusations levelled at him on here only serve to reinforce existing agendas (in the same way David Bell's 7 performances next season will be 5; forming opinions and not jumping to change them is the make up of the football fan, particularly the football fan who immortalises their opinion on t'interweb).
He is a little more experienced now, I am interested to see how he gets on.
In this, I shall try to keep an objective and open mind.
If I see things I agree with, I shall compliment.
If I see things I disagree with, I shall complain.
I will listen to other viewpoints without hyperbole or insults (you set of twats, you).
He's not the best, he's not the worst. He is ours and it is the close season. Let's stick to slagging off players we have never seen for being only marginally Bigi than bigger.
Andy Thorn was not the greatest manager in the Championship.
He lacked experience and it showed at times with naivety in systems and substitutions.
At times, his post match interviews grated as we witnessed another loss and the team we all support drifting closer to the lowest level of football I have seen us play in my lifetime.
The more experienced players were often uninspired, when we needed them to turn up most.
However, in the matches I witnessed, I did not see such a great propensity of managerial errors (tactical, substitutes, etc.) that led me to believe he was enemy no. 1 to our Championship status.
I remember with fondness the effect he had on taking over from Boothroyd.
I like to see football played more like Spain than Stoke... it counts for little without the results, but if we start getting a few more results this season then I would be happier watching Thorn's brand of football than I would several of our recent managers.
I believe he was dealt an extremely tricky hand by his employers (not the luckiest manager around because he could do no wrong, I think that underestimates the amount he wanted to do well with Coventry City Football Club).
I do not think he is SISU's yes man because he stayed in his first managerial position of his career.
I think some of the accusations levelled at him on here only serve to reinforce existing agendas (in the same way David Bell's 7 performances next season will be 5; forming opinions and not jumping to change them is the make up of the football fan, particularly the football fan who immortalises their opinion on t'interweb).
He is a little more experienced now, I am interested to see how he gets on.
In this, I shall try to keep an objective and open mind.
If I see things I agree with, I shall compliment.
If I see things I disagree with, I shall complain.
I will listen to other viewpoints without hyperbole or insults (you set of twats, you).
He's not the best, he's not the worst. He is ours and it is the close season. Let's stick to slagging off players we have never seen for being only marginally Bigi than bigger.
DiveDiveWhereverYouMayBe
New Member
Nick
Administrator
So you can 100% guarantee he is the best manager we could get?
What makes him good football wise? Nothing to do with politics, SISU or the situation. What makes Thorn a good manager?
Tactics? Man Management? Ability to read a situation and deal with it? Playing to player strengths?
This season he should have a clean slate with the new players etc and a chance to show what he can do from the off. 10 games or so and see where we are.
What makes him good football wise? Nothing to do with politics, SISU or the situation. What makes Thorn a good manager?
Tactics? Man Management? Ability to read a situation and deal with it? Playing to player strengths?
This season he should have a clean slate with the new players etc and a chance to show what he can do from the off. 10 games or so and see where we are.
usskyblue
Well-Known Member
Come on Leonard...
DiveDiveWhereverYouMayBe
New Member
Re: your first line. You didn't get it. I was commenting directly on the quote from you, as you. Go again. I have just seen the stuff you added and I can't be jarred to respond and am bidding this thread a cheerful goodnight ("weak / no comeback / I win", notwithstanding).
* Edit - put the fucker in speech marks, hopefully that will do the trick there *
The key here is Nick's reference to Management Qualities
Like I say - make a list - see who makes the grade - if you have an actual criteria then you can begin to measure.
Not a single PRO-THORN poster has been able to put up his good qualities.
DiveDiveWhereverYouMayBe's emotional plea (I commend you for speaking from the heart on this one mate) is genuine yet is it enough to justify the continued blind faith - it's enough for SISU and that is what counts - but for me - no, it is not enough. If I had my way I would have gotten rid last season. Still - this man will lead us under SISU until it becomes unacceptable.
Would back to back relegation do the trick?
as in Brody?
DiveDiveWhereverYouMayBe
New Member
Just when I thought I was out...
To answer your final question (as it is the most straightforward). Yes.
Gaz
Well-Known Member
If he had a squad capable for the championship last season then I would answer that question based just on football.
But unfortunately he didn't, so I don't see how we can base his management just on football when there was so much politics involved around the team.
I don't see the point is changing manager after manager as it just doesn't, and hasn't got us anywhere.
For as long as I can remember, Ccfc have had managers who have played football by just booting the ball up pitch which just about allways ended up with the opposition with the ball and attacking us again,
I don't see that under AT's team.
I see us at times trying to play football the right way, it's just he has had his job made difficult with the playing cut backs
which has had an effect on the team.
Under AT after Hoofryd got sacked we looked good, but by the start of last season we were one of the favourites to go down.
How could that be if we had done ok at the end of the season before ?
Was it because we simply had a squad which was clearly not good enough to stay in the division."
We havn't seen Thorn with a capable squad for the league we are in to make a judgment on him either way so until then, I'll support him.
But I will say that anything less than a top 6 this season, in my eyes will be a fail and he will have to go.
SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
I think most people argue that the situation hasn't allowed him to prove if he is a good manager or not. We had a squad which was amongst the bottom 3 in the division in quality and depth and that is where we ended up
If we get off to a poor start this season I would expect there to be pressure on him as now we have a larger back room staff with a permanent fitness coach and the additions of Carsley and Shaw to the first team coaching staff and we look like we may be building a squad that should push for the top 6 on paper
Grendel
Well-Known Member
No he is the worst that is a statistical fact.
Also he is only interested in the continuation of SISU at this club. Thorn worships at the SISU temple and the SISU dollar is the only currency in town for him. That is a huge problem.
Gaz
Well-Known Member
Nick
Administrator
I agree, he should have a clean slate this season and I do hope he can prove all the doubters wrong and get us promoted.
The thing is, didn't Boothroyd have us winning a lot of games when he played Hoofball and Physical football until he lost Carsley and Turner through injury?
Have there been many moments where he has tactically shown that he is a good manager? Has he done things where you think "that was an awesome decision" like managers have done against us time and time again?
DiveDiveWhereverYouMayBe
New Member
I meant 'he is not the best manager in the land, he is not the worst manager in the land'. I was not aware he is statistically the worst manager Coventry have had. It surprises me that there are any who are not wildly anti-Thorn... I rarely heard comments or boos about him at the ground last season. I think saying he 'worships at the SISU temple' betrays your position on him. They pay him and tell him his budgets, so the latter is true (although I believe they use Sterling). Fuck, I was meant to quit while I was behind. No further comment.
Gaz
Well-Known Member
So just to confirm, you are saying that we will be no where near top six by Christmas, in fact we will be so far behind that it will be out of sight for us for that season. Yeah ?
as do his disciples if you ask me - do you think he gave them free season tickets.
Astute
Well-Known Member
This subject has more people contradicting themselves more than any others.
How many people say that AT is the worse manager we have ever had and should be gone, but then join another thread saying we now have a good team although we don't have enough players and could or will struggle with the players we have? If we don't have enough players now then how were we good enough last season?
We have more quality this season than last. Our academy players that played last season now have a seasons experience. We have brought another 6 through. Hopefully they will be brought into the team more slowly than last season. This season AT has not lost his 1st team during the closed season. Half of the players he has lost won't be missed as much as last season.
I have always said AT should be given the chance to show what he can do. This time has come. He has been able to bring in a few players he wants to replace others that have left. If we are having a poor season by Xmas then he needs to go. We have had players join us that could easily have gone elsewhere and to Championship sides. At least 2 of them have taken a paycut. They have joined us because they see good in what is happening with our club and want to be part of it.
Just because someone saw that AT got shaftet last season it don't make them an AT lover. So AB lost two players through injury, meaning we went into freefall and looking like relegation candidates. FFS look at the rest of the squad he still had. The squad that went during the closed season. Players we lost went to the Prem, played in Europe and also made a cup final.
Time to get the kids up so will end on one point. If we don't finish in the top 6 then I will see this season as a fail. I am looking forward to going to some nice little grounds, places I have never been before and meeting fans of clubs I have never come across before whilst being able to stand up and jump about like a lunatic when we score or win.
Top half but within reach of top 6 by xmas....not too bad but should be better
Top 6 by xmas..........minimum expected by me
Top 2 by xmas.........possible but not expected. It will be like last season where we need team and squad to gel, getting used to how they all play.
How many people say that AT is the worse manager we have ever had and should be gone, but then join another thread saying we now have a good team although we don't have enough players and could or will struggle with the players we have? If we don't have enough players now then how were we good enough last season?
We have more quality this season than last. Our academy players that played last season now have a seasons experience. We have brought another 6 through. Hopefully they will be brought into the team more slowly than last season. This season AT has not lost his 1st team during the closed season. Half of the players he has lost won't be missed as much as last season.
I have always said AT should be given the chance to show what he can do. This time has come. He has been able to bring in a few players he wants to replace others that have left. If we are having a poor season by Xmas then he needs to go. We have had players join us that could easily have gone elsewhere and to Championship sides. At least 2 of them have taken a paycut. They have joined us because they see good in what is happening with our club and want to be part of it.
Just because someone saw that AT got shaftet last season it don't make them an AT lover. So AB lost two players through injury, meaning we went into freefall and looking like relegation candidates. FFS look at the rest of the squad he still had. The squad that went during the closed season. Players we lost went to the Prem, played in Europe and also made a cup final.
Time to get the kids up so will end on one point. If we don't finish in the top 6 then I will see this season as a fail. I am looking forward to going to some nice little grounds, places I have never been before and meeting fans of clubs I have never come across before whilst being able to stand up and jump about like a lunatic when we score or win.
Top half but within reach of top 6 by xmas....not too bad but should be better
Top 6 by xmas..........minimum expected by me
Top 2 by xmas.........possible but not expected. It will be like last season where we need team and squad to gel, getting used to how they all play.
oldskyblue58
CCFC Finance Director
Even if he were the best manager of all time I would still raise questions about some of his decisions. Clearly he is not that, but it isnt a question of loving or hating, anti or pro ........ it is simply a questioning of his decisions.
Because some choose to question, differ in opinion, take an alternative view they are to be categorised and put in a convenient box (thread) ...... sorry i would find that out of order and directly in contradiction of what a forum stands for..........
". A public meeting place for open discussion."
even if it is a minority it doesnt mean they are wrong...... just they hold an equally valid but different opinion
get over it
Because some choose to question, differ in opinion, take an alternative view they are to be categorised and put in a convenient box (thread) ...... sorry i would find that out of order and directly in contradiction of what a forum stands for..........
". A public meeting place for open discussion."
even if it is a minority it doesnt mean they are wrong...... just they hold an equally valid but different opinion
get over it
Jim
Well-Known Member
Can you actually justify this statement? And by this I mean provide evidence that backs it up as opposed to your personal opinion.
How is Thorn statistically our worst ever manager? If you are basing it on the fact that we were relegated from the Championship or maybe the teams win ratio under his tenure then that is flawed logic. You need to consider all the facts.
I think most people will agree that our squad last season was, in terms of quality, a bottom three championship squad. Simple. Therefore, Thorn managed to get the team to perform to its capabilities and most people's expectations, which includes bookies, pundits etc.
The fact that a fair few of the footballing community including managers and also players who have departed have been pretty complimentary about Thorn speaks volumes.
We now have a squad that will be competing for a top 6 place in league 1 and that is the yardstick against which we should measure Thorns performance.
Again, please justify this statement.
If you mean that Thorn does as he is told and had to accept that the budget constraints are what they are and that certain players will be sold against his wishes then you need to grow up a touch. It is called being part of an organisation and respecting your superiors.
In my job I don't particularly like the owners of my company and I think that at times they makes some very questionable decisions BUT I still do as they ask as that part of my job responsibility. It does NOT mean I worship at their temple and their dollar is the only one in town. I like my job and enjoy the challenges it gives me and that is exactly the same sort of position that Thorn is currently in.
For the record I don't believe Thorn is a poor manager but he is also not a good one either, he is inexperienced but I believe growing in capability. And I repeat my earlier statement that he should be properly judged on this seasons performances.
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