School Protests (28 Viewers)

[clint van damme]

I’m not saying we should kowtow to religious fanatics, or ban all criticism of a certain religion. I’m saying it’s dumb for people to be setting the table for an endless culture war (in a secondary school, of all places!) when there’s no tangible benefit to starting the argument in the first place, and the only real ‘opponents’ are irrelevant cranks who are desperate for one to start.

We make compromises and trade-offs on our free speech all the time - the aim is that it makes our society safer, fairer and more respectful. Not making pictures of Mohammed part of the secondary school RE curriculum might be another one. So what’s the great cost to society here? Is it so crucial to our kids’ educations that it’s worth the ensuing shitshow? Is the offense it causes to a minority so irrelevant to us that we’d rather fire up the outrage machine every six months than just skip it and get on with our lives? I know there are some free speech purists on here who want to puff out their chests (it’s the internet after all) but I just don’t see it as some massive capitulation.

I agree with much in your post but now this has happened I feel that unfortunately as society we have to pick a side.
Perhaps the only compromise is to suspend the teacher if its proved he went off curriculum.
But if we go down the protection route then that really is a slippery slope.
And it wont stop there.

 

---

[SBT]

We have managed for decades to show Nazi propaganda in History without protest from the Jewish community. If it is found that in the lesson he insulted Islam then sure, throw the book at him. But I get the impression he made the same ‘mistake’ as the French teacher by wanting to engage students in the ultimate example of free speech debate.

Those at Charlie Hebdo didn’t deserve to die, nor did the French teacher and this one does not deserve to lose his job.

Well he did something which many Muslims find to be an insult to their religion. I’m not saying I share their feelings (I obviously don’t think it justifies murder!), but had it been me planning the lesson, I probably would have taken that into account, and girded myself for the consequences if I thought it was still worth it. If I’m a caterer who makes excellent bacon sarnies, I wouldn’t expect to serve them at a Jewish wedding and keep my job for very long, however delicious I thought they were.

 

[Grendel]

Well he did something which many Muslims find to be an insult to their religion. I’m not saying I share their feelings (I obviously don’t think it justifies murder!), but had it been me planning the lesson, I probably would have taken that into account, and girded myself for the consequences if I thought it was still worth it. If I’m a caterer who makes excellent bacon sarnies, I wouldn’t expect to serve them at a Jewish wedding and keep my job for very long, however delicious I thought they were.

That analogy only works if this was a Muslim faith school - it isn’t is it?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Well he did something which many Muslims find to be an insult to their religion. I’m not saying I share their feelings (I obviously don’t think it justifies murder!), but had it been me planning the lesson, I probably would have taken that into account, and girded myself for the consequences if I thought it was still worth it. If I’m a caterer who makes excellent bacon sarnies, I wouldn’t expect to serve them at a Jewish wedding and keep my job for very long, however delicious they were.

What annoys me with this is the underlying assumption that he didn’t seriously think about what he was doing. If you look at the support plans and notes about individual students a teacher already has to factor in to their delivery of the curriculum you’d appreciate why I’m getting a bit irritated here.

 

[SBT]

That analogy only works if this was a Muslim faith school - it isn’t is it?

I don’t believe so, but I think I read most of the pupils are Muslim?

I’m sure there are RE teachers up and down the country who have shown pictures of Mohammed in schools with no Muslim pupils at all, and I don’t really have an issue with that at all.

What annoys me with this is the underlying assumption that he didn’t seriously think about what he was doing. If you look at the support plans and notes about individual students a teacher already has to factor in to their delivery of the curriculum you’d appreciate why I’m getting a bit irritated here.

Obviously I haven’t seen those - what kind of things are you talking about?

 

[Grendel]

I don’t believe so, but I think I read most of the pupils are Muslim?

I’m sure there are RE teachers up and down the country who have shown pictures of Mohammed in schools with no Muslim pupils at all, and I don’t really have an issue with that at all.

Why do you have an issue anyway - the issue surely is with the protests - other religions have moved onto to at least attempt to be in this century not still in the 15th. The religion is pretty bigoted and it’s not the first time we’ve seen these scenes outside a U.K. school is it?

 

[Evo1883]

Why do you have an issue anyway - the issue surely is with the protests - other religions have moved onto to at least attempt to be in this century not still in the 15th. The religion is pretty bigoted and it’s not the first time we’ve seen these scenes outside a U.K. school is it?

Are there any women at the protest? Haven't noticed or have they banned them from leaving the house

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Obviously I haven’t seen those - what kind of things are you talking about?

They will be support plans for those with conditions ranging from autism to physical disabilities. They can also be more acute, for instance teaching a story where a character drowns and someone in your class lost a parent in the same way. Support plans around learning difficulties are a legal obligation that the school and thus the teacher has to adhere to.

So if this is already in a teacher’s mindset it is very unlikely they will have planned this lesson without thinking of the consequences. I think the way forward is similar to what we already do for sex education in that parents can opt their children out of the classes but it is not pulled off the curriculum.

 

[SBT]

Why do you have an issue anyway - the issue surely is with the protests - other religions have moved onto to at least attempt to be in this century not still in the 15th. The religion is pretty bigoted and it’s not the first time we’ve seen these scenes outside a U.K. school is it?

My issue is with the protests. They’re disruptive and divisive. I can tell from the rest of your anti-Islam dribble that your preferred method of preventing them is an endless culture war waged from the safety of your keyboard. I think there’s an easier way.

 

[SBT]

They will be support plans for those with conditions ranging from autism to physical disabilities. They can also be more acute, for instance teaching a story where a character drowns and someone in your class lost a parent in the same way. Support plans around learning difficulties are a legal obligation that the school and thus the teacher has to adhere to.

So if this is already in a teacher’s mindset it is very unlikely they will have planned this lesson without thinking of the consequences. I think the way forward is similar to what we already do for sex education in that parents can opt their children out of the classes but it is not pulled off the curriculum.

So what happened here, in your opinion?

 

[Evo1883]

My issue is with the protests. They’re disruptive and divisive. I can tell from the rest of your anti-Islam dribble that your preferred method of preventing them is an endless culture war waged from the safety of your keyboard. I think there’s an easier way.

Anti Islam

 

[Grendel]

My issue is with the protests. They’re disruptive and divisive. I can tell from the rest of your anti-Islam dribble that your preferred method of preventing them is an endless culture war waged from the safety of your keyboard. I think there’s an easier way.

Lol “my anti Islam dribble” - your whole argument is based on a fact the guy who didn’t break the law is somehow responsible for the subsequent fall out, if you want an analogy that’s like blaming a girl for dressing inappropriately and blaming any consequential action on her.

It’s century 21 - as for the safety behind the keyboard take a look in the mirror

 

[Grendel]

Anti Islam

Nice To see Tainy has a sense of proportion

Batley school protesters demand teacher in cartoon row be dismissed

Calls for calm in West Yorkshire town as demonstrators say they won’t back down

www.google.co.uk

 

[Evo1883]

OK Tainy

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

So what happened here, in your opinion?

He was probably naive in not forewarning the Muslims in the class about what he was going to show next lesson. I don’t think his actual lesson delivery would have been insensitive. I also would find it difficult to believe he hadn’t mentioned it with the subject leader in advance.

 

[Evo1883]

Are for example ..all religious children so shocked or offended by cartoon pictures of their god ...there's over 500 gods so obviously the choice is vast when deciding which sky fairy to love the most..

 

[Liquid Gold]

OK Tainy View attachment 19330

Such a bullshit argument. There is a lot of islamophobia, which is obviously awful, but this isn’t it.

Hindu’s can’t eat beef but they aren’t going mental that schools are selling burgers.

Muslim’s find images of the prophet to be blasphemous but that isn’t a crime in this country and so long as nobody was forced to see the images then there should be no issue.

 

[Evo1883]

Such a bullshit argument. There is a lot of islamophobia, which is obviously awful, but this isn’t it.

Hindu’s can’t eat beef but they aren’t going mental that schools are selling burgers.

Muslim’s find images of the prophet to be blasphemous but that isn’t a crime in this country and so long as nobody was forced to see the images then there should be no issue.

I think the whole thing is insane

Just found it funny In that statement he mentioned the 2 things Muslims love the most ... the LGBT community and Israel(but we can probably narrow Israel down to just Jewish people In truth )

 

[Evo1883]

For the record, I just don't ever recall seeing Hindus or Sikhs being a pain in the arse about pretty much anything

 

[Grendel]

I think the whole thing is insane

Just found it funny In that statement he mentioned the 2 things Muslims love the most ... the LGBT community and Israel(but we can probably narrow Israel down to just Jewish people In truth )

Well yes again I’m sure this was the schools fault as well. So insensitive

‘We can’t give in’: the Birmingham school on the frontline of anti-LGBT protests

Protests by Muslims against teaching about gay relationships at their children’s primary came to a head last week. We meet the people caught between activists and the law

www.google.co.uk

 

[SBAndy]

OK Tainy View attachment 19330

“You can’t say anything about people who are LGBT” are you trying to tell us something here Tainy? (Also appreciated that his mate was called Hash Hash)

 

[Ian1779]

He was probably naive in not forewarning the Muslims in the class about what he was going to show next lesson. I don’t think his actual lesson delivery would have been insensitive. I also would find it difficult to believe he hadn’t mentioned it with the subject leader in advance.

If he’d mentioned he was going to show it in advance, there would have been kick off about that, and I would have expected the subject leader to at the very least have a conversation about it.

 

[Evo1883]

Well yes again I’m sure this was the schools fault as well. So insensitive

‘We can’t give in’: the Birmingham school on the frontline of anti-LGBT protests

Protests by Muslims against teaching about gay relationships at their children’s primary came to a head last week. We meet the people caught between activists and the law

www.google.co.uk

I for one am truly shocked I tell you that the 2 outlets giving these clowns a platform are the guardian and independent ...shocked

 

[SBAndy]

“Of course,” he replied. “But we send our children to school to learn and become good citizens. Being taught this extremism is the true disruption here.”

‘This extremism’ being a fucking cartoon. Get in the bin.

 

[Evo1883]

Let's be honest the country is weak on things like this ...the teacher will be sacked and the headteacher will probably resign too

And make no mistake, the difference here is if christian parents were outside my local school protesting about pictures ...most of the other parents would walk past and just take the piss out of them

 

[SBT]

Lol “my anti Islam dribble” - your whole argument is based on a fact the guy who didn’t break the law is somehow responsible for the subsequent fall out, if you want an analogy that’s like blaming a girl for dressing inappropriately and blaming any consequential action on her.

It’s century 21 - as for the safety behind the keyboard take a look in the mirror

There’s a genuine and justifiable reason to be offended by someone insulting your religion, deliberately or otherwise. You might disagree personally with that, and it doesn’t subsequently justify crimes of retribution from those who were offended of course. But protections for them nevertheless exist, which is why there are often consequences (legal or otherwise) for those kinds of provocations.

By contrast there is no genuine or justifiable reason for a woman’s outfit to provoke offense or inspire a crime against her. So quite rightly there are no consequences for a woman who chooses to dress a certain way. In both cases, those backward men who would look to exploit a situation by threatening others are the people I’m concerned about stopping, but don’t be surprised if there isn’t a one-size-fits-all approach to doing so.

 

[Grendel]

If he’d mentioned he was going to show it in advance, there would have been kick off about that, and I would have expected the subject leader to at the very least have a conversation about it.

“don’t do it look what happened to Salman Rushdie”

 

[Evo1883]

There’s a genuine and justifiable reason to be offended by someone insulting your religion, deliberately or otherwise. You might disagree personally with that, and it doesn’t subsequently justify crimes of retribution from those who were offended of course. But protections for them nevertheless exist, which is why there are often consequences (legal or otherwise) for those kinds of provocations.

By contrast there is no genuine or justifiable reason for a woman’s outfit to provoke offense or inspire a crime against her. So quite rightly there are no consequences for a woman who chooses to dress a certain way. In both cases, those backward men who would look to exploit a situation by threatening others are the people I’m concerned about stopping, but don’t be surprised if there isn’t a one-size-fits-all approach to doing so.

Pretty much everything offends followers of this particular faith though...they are very fragile

It's why the only thing they are truly happy with is total Islamic teaching

 

[SBT]

Pretty much everything offends followers of this particular faith though...they are very fragile

There’s a very vocal minority of radical Muslims who actively want a confrontation, yes. The more they argue, the more they get to shape the public’s idea of what an ordinary Muslim is like. The question is whether you want to give them what they want.

 

[skybluetony176]

Are for example ..all religious children so shocked or offended by cartoon pictures of their god ...there's over 500 gods so obviously the choice is vast when deciding which sky fairy to love the most..

Most religions themselves depict their own god themselves. Islam doesn’t depict either god or the prophet Muhammad. That’s the major difference here. It isn’t blasphemy to depict god, Jesus, the Virgin Mary etc in Christianity. In fact go into any church anywhere in the world of any domain of Christianity and it’s full of images especially of Jesus on the cross and the Virgin Mary. You don’t see any images of anybody in a Mosque, to Muslims it’s blasphemy to depict them. If you’re going to compare eggs you need to compare them with eggs.

 

[Evo1883]

Most religions themselves depict their own god themselves. Islam doesn’t depict either god or the prophet Muhammad. That’s the major difference here. It isn’t blasphemy to depict god, Jesus, the Virgin Mary etc in Christianity. In fact go into any church anywhere in the world of any domain of Christianity and it’s full of images especially of Jesus on the cross and the Virgin Mary. You don’t see any images of anybody in a Mosque, to Muslims it’s blasphemy to depict them. If you’re going to compare eggs you need to compare them with eggs.

OK..blasphemy isn't illegal though here ,most people don't really care that they are offended ,as Stephen fry would say ....so fucking what

 

[SkyBlueDom26]

Have they been arrested/fined yet?

 

[skybluetony176]

OK..blasphemy isn't illegal though here ,most people don't really care that they are offended ,as Stephen fry would say ....so fucking what

The common law of blasphemy was abolished, doesn’t mean you can’t be trialled for blasphemy as a hate crime. So what you say is only partially true.

 

[Evo1883]

The common law of blasphemy was abolished, doesn’t mean you can’t be trialled for blasphemy as a hate crime. So what you say is only partially true.

Yea I don't think a teacher showing a cartoon picture of mohammed is a hate crime mate

 

[clint van damme]

I for one am truly shocked I tell you that the 2 outlets giving these clowns a platform are the guardian and independent ...shocked

it's a major news story, getting both sides of the story is how journalism is supposed to work though increasingly it doesn't in this country.
It's shone a light on some pretty silly opinions as well so win win.