Stats figures for how much each Championship club has spent (9 Viewers)

[PVA]

Never mind the countless studies by statisticians, professors and various other experts that prove there is a direct correlation between wages and league position, Grendel knows best.

 

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[skybluesam66]

grendel will be doing a bet on Man city for relegation next year

 

[Grendel]

grendel will be doing a bet on Man city for relegation next year

well I won’t as I wouldn’t when Wolves were relegated from the championship - which proves my point

 

[PVA]

You seem to be under the impression that people are saying it's a 100% total correlation.

Which absolutely nobody is saying.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Every single sample of statistical data ever, has anomalies. To suggest there should always be a perfect correlation between spend and success is ridiculous. If that was the case then there would never be any point in playing sport.

 

[Grendel]

Every single sample of statistical data ever, has anomalies. To suggest there should always be a perfect correlation between spend and success is ridiculous. If that was the case then there would never be any point in playing sport.

No one suggests a perfect correlation

However Clearly large spend in the championship is not as much an indicator of success than in other leagues. The biggest spending club never gets relegated in the Premier L1 or 2 but does happen in this league

 

[skybluesam66]

1 Norwich
2 Watford
3 Bournemouth
4 Swansea
5 Brentford

The current top 5 in the league and probably the current top 5 spenders
Grendel , stop digging, there is a correlation, but you can manage your way up and down within that
Sometimes there is a time to keep quiet

 

[procdoc]

1 Norwich
2 Watford
3 Bournemouth
4 Swansea
5 Brentford

The current top 5 in the league and probably the current top 5 spenders
Grendel , stop digging, there is a correlation, but you can manage your way up and down within that
Sometimes there is a time to keep quiet

I wouldn’t say Swansea or even Brentford are amongst the biggest spenders. Brentford spent a lot on Toney but they recouped huge money for Watkins and Berahima

 

[Ccfcisparks]

No one suggests a perfect correlation

However Clearly large spend in the championship is not as much an indicator of success than in other leagues. The biggest spending club never gets relegated in the Premier L1 or 2 but does happen in this league

When has the BIGGEST spending club been relegated from this division?

 

[cov donkey kick]

Wage wise the club getting value for money looking at wage wise .

 

[chiefdave]

Pretty sure if we spent £10m plus on a striker and he was no better than Biamou or Baka people would be saying we'd messed up. They certainly wouldn't be saying you can't expect him to be any better just because he cost millions.

 

[Grendel]

1 Norwich
2 Watford
3 Bournemouth
4 Swansea
5 Brentford

The current top 5 in the league and probably the current top 5 spenders
Grendel , stop digging, there is a correlation, but you can manage your way up and down within that
Sometimes there is a time to keep quiet

Brentford were in the play offs with a 3rd of the wage bill of Sunderland it was £17 million - I have also said the parachute payment clubs should be excluded - if you can’t comprehend data this isn’t my problem

 

[Grendel]

Pretty sure if we spent £10m plus on a striker and he was no better than Biamou or Baka people would be saying we'd messed up. They certainly wouldn't be saying you can't expect him to be any better just because he cost millions.

This is where again the conversation gets confused. Is it wages or money spent on new players?

 

[Grendel]

I wouldn’t say Swansea or even Brentford are amongst the biggest spenders. Brentford spent a lot on Toney but they recouped huge money for Watkins and Berahima

It’s funny when someone says “you haven’t a clue” and show it’s they who haven’t

 

[procdoc]

It’s funny when someone says “you haven’t a clue” and show it’s they who haven’t

I think some people like to try and have a dig just for the sake of it.

 

[PVA]

 

[cov donkey kick]

Budget for every player has to be total costs including wages over the whole contract .it's not just initial cost as both are linked.

 

[chiefdave]

This is where again the conversation gets confused. Is it wages or money spent on new players?

Can fairly confidently say that any player we sign for £10m will be on higher wages than Biamou or Baka,.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Brentford were in the play offs with a 3rd of the wage bill of Sunderland it was £17 million - I have also said the parachute payment clubs should be excluded - if you can’t comprehend data this isn’t my problem

Parachute payments clubs? So a 1/3 of the league?

 

[Grendel]

I think some people like to try and have a dig just for the sake of it.

The problem is no one knows what they mean

If club a spends £30 million on new players and sells £40 million while club B spends £4 million and sells £1 million whose got the biggest budget on transfers. I’d argue B as they’ve improved net spend

Likewise if club A has a £30 million wage bill and next season it’s targeted to reduce to £20 million while club b has £4 million increasing to £7 million in net terms A is a depreciating asset strategy while b is increasing so personally I’d rather be I. Charge of B

am As I’ve also pointed out no one actually can explain budgets and cannot understand even if there is a budget the smallest budget club could spend more than the highest

 

[Frostie]

Brentford were in the play offs with a 3rd of the wage bill of Sunderland it was £17 million - I have also said the parachute payment clubs should be excluded - if you can’t comprehend data this isn’t my problem

Just exclude a quarter of the league then sure...

Also, whilst saying that, you are simultaneously using Hull & Sunderland's wage bills from 2 years ago in comparison to Brentford's at same time knowing full well that Hull & Sunderland were receiving parachute payments then

You make some very valid observations but I think you need to decide what point it is you are trying to make.

 

[Ccfcisparks]

The problem is no one knows what they mean

If club a spends £30 million on new players and sells £40 million while club B spends £4 million and sells £1 million whose got the biggest budget on transfers. I’d argue B as they’ve improved net spend

Likewise if club A has a £30 million wage bill and next season it’s targeted to reduce to £20 million while club b has £4 million increasing to £7 million in net terms A is a depreciating asset strategy while b is increasing so personally I’d rather be I. Charge of B

am As I’ve also pointed out no one actually can explain budgets and cannot understand even if there is a budget the smallest budget club could spend more than the highest

So therefore, Wycombe, who have increased their budget this year, have a greater transfer budget than Bournemouth, who have reduced theirs this year?

 

[Grendel]

Parachute payments clubs? So a 1/3 of the league?

I mean the 3 immediately relegated

 

[Ccfcisparks]

I mean the 3 immediately relegated

But all clubs relegated in the previous 4 years will be receiving parachute payments so is that not skewing the data also?

 

[Grendel]

So therefore, Wycombe, who have increased their budget this year, have a greater transfer budget than Bournemouth, who have reduced theirs this year?

As I said I’ve excluded the 3 relegated clubs and I’m not sure Wycombe even have increased - if Wycombe sold a player for £59 million and bought 3 for £39 million they have a net decline spend - also again you are picking extremes

 

[Ccfcisparks]

As I said I’ve excluded the 3 relegated clubs and I’m not sure Wycombe even have increased - if Wycombe sold a player for £59 million and bought 3 for £39 million they have a net decline spend - also again you are picking extremes

Is Barnsley not an extreme, being as they are so against the trend of the data?

 

[Grendel]

But all clubs relegated in the previous 4 years will be receiving parachute payments so is that not skewing the data also?

No as you then get into wage above revenue and risk of losses and that’s why teams like Hull and Huddersfield see declines and in my view are worse off than promoted upward coming clubs. We even saw that when we were relegated from the premier league. Lee Hughes was on £17k a week and one of the highest paid players but we’d asset stripped and after that season it was boom

 

[Ccfcisparks]

No as you then get into wage above revenue and risk of losses and that’s why teams like Hull and Huddersfield see declines and in my view are worse off than promoted upward coming clubs. We even saw that when we were relegated from the premier league. Lee Hughes was on £17k a week and one of the highest paid players but we’d asset stripped and after that season it was boom

What about teams like Aston Villa, that had a few years in the Championship but never asset stripped. They were still spending mega wages year on year.

 

[Grendel]

What about teams like Aston Villa, that had a few years in the Championship but never asset stripped. They were still spending mega wages year on year.

Answer this question

- Would Man Utd in reality ever without points deductions he relegated from the premier league - really?

 

[Ccfcisparks]

Answer this question

- Would Man Utd in reality ever without points deductions he relegated from the premier league - really?

Typically, no. But there is always the chance, I'm sure the same was said about Newcastle in the 90's. Surely that defeats your idea that budget doesn't correlate to league position typically?

 

[Grendel]

Typically, no. But there is always the chance, I'm sure the same was said about Newcastle in the 90's. Surely that defeats your idea that budget doesn't correlate to league position typically?

There isn’t a chance in hell actually and Newcastle were a yo yo club with poor finances

Stick with it - league 1 and say Sunderland - would they have any chance of being relegated to league 2 without points deductions etc

 

[Ccfcisparks]

There isn’t a chance in hell actually and Newcastle were a yo yo club with poor finances

Stick with it - league 1 and say Sunderland - would they have any chance of being relegated to league 2 without points deductions etc

Why couldn't they be?

 

[Grendel]

Why couldn't they be?

You are being obtuse. Have they? Have they looked likely to be and while we are at it in league two were we or Portsmouth likely to be relegated at anytime in those leagues?

 

[Ccfcisparks]

You are being obtuse. Have they? Have they looked likely to be and while we are at it in league two were we or Portsmouth likely to be relegated at anytime in those leagues?

I'm sure the same could be said when we went down to League 1. Any team getting relegated is never assumed to be relegated straight through the league they drop into, but it can happen. Teams fail to get promoted, expectations adjust, team falls lower in the league. In all honesty G this seems like deflection and like you are clutching at straws to be honest as many people are poking holes in your theories.

 

[Grendel]

I'm sure the same could be said when we went down to League 1. Any team getting relegated is never assumed to be relegated straight through the league they drop into, but it can happen. Teams fail to get promoted, expectations adjust, team falls lower in the league. In all honesty G this seems like deflection and like you are clutching at straws to be honest as many people are poking holes in your theories.

We didn’t get relegated and when we did we’d by then had a very small wage bill

In the championship there have been more Clubs with top end wage bills and income relegated than in any other league

It’s a fact