Man U fans inside Old Trafford (13 Viewers)

[bringbackrattles]

Oh I can go on but at least I made sense

After a recent game he interrupted Oggy and went on about goalkeeping etc. Dont think Oggy was best pleased !

 

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[Sky Blue Pete]

We're well versed in this aren't we.
More subtle, damage or violence restricted to inter-fan bickering.
Ultimately didn't change a lot did we?
These had media focus, to get anything like what they wish for would require government intervention.
I don't expect that to be forthcoming in any major way.

Really? It’s incremental steps. People off he are now included as part of the supporters forum and I’m the vice chair. Not just me but others have regular conversation with the club owner of ccfc and our tenants and the council. If you want to get rid of joy and Sisu show everyone your money if you want an input there are many ways to do it. Has it changed anything? Well we are back at ricoh next year for 10 years and pretty unamended minutes are shared regularly . Small incremental steps and conversation make change possible too

 

[Adge]

Wonder did the protest put the players off?

 

[wingy]

Really? It’s incremental steps. People off he are now included as part of the supporters forum and I’m the vice chair. Not just me but others have regular conversation with the club owner of ccfc and our tenants and the council. If you want to get rid of joy and Sisu show everyone your money if you want an input there are many ways to do it. Has it changed anything? Well we are back at ricoh next year for 10 years and pretty unamended minutes are shared regularly . Small incremental steps and conversation make change possible too

Yes but in the wider game I doubt we'll see 50%in fans hands anytime soon.
They don't have any legitimate way to make the Glazers or Henry at Liverpool to depart, nor do I think the current government or even a soft Labour one would legislate against what is accepted as lawful legitimate business and its practices.

 

[clint van damme]

How many clubs fans feel a connection with the ownership of the club?
Times have changed from when local business men used to own clubs and milk the prestige.
Throughout the League pyramid you've got these overseas /out of town owners who primarily are in to make money directly from the club and its potential sell-on value.
For all the talk of 50+1 ownership there would need to be a major reset of football finances to achieve this. Firstly to buy out owners and then to address the debt levels of nearly every club and their wage costs in particular.

All that is true, but I think the super league malarky really brought things to ahead even though it has being building towards that for a long time.
As for the major resetting of football finances , that's inevitable.
But it can be 50 plus 1, or it can be Arsenal v Spurs at 2am GMT in Shanghai.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Yes but in the wider game I doubt we'll see 50%in fans hands anytime soon.
They don't have any legitimate way to make the Glazers or Henry at Liverpool to depart, nor do I think the current government or even a soft Labour one would legislate against what is accepted as lawful legitimate business and its practices.

When we’ve spoke with Ms Seppalla she is not averse to fan involvement but there’s a cost involved and a risk that we as supporters normally can’t afford or are not willing to invest our own time money and effort sacrificially. I genuinely believe that there is a conversation to be had but expecting any owner to hand over a percentage of the club for nothing or to be involved if they don’t decide on how to manage their risk. We need a Jimmy hill type creative person to move the conversation forward. There are good models. Wycombe and Pompey being good examples for different reasons. Football and the world has moved on from supporters trusts demands and expectations. I firmly believe discussion, negotiation and maybe consultation is possible and genuine without a stake and a stake less than 50% is really no stake at all

 

[Deleted member 5849]

When we’ve spoke with Ms Seppalla she is not averse to fan involvement

Well... when they took the fans' shares off them, the evidence is to the contrary.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Wouldn't be surprised if the owners are taking large sums out - it's what US sports team owners do. They have spent a lot on transfers but given the money coming into the club it's not really coming out of the owners pocket.

But it just goes to show our priorities. People running 'your' football club using it to enrich themselves and you invade the place and smash stuff up. People running 'your' country using it to enrich themselves and their mates and costing 100k+ lives in the process - just carry on.

 

[Grendel]

Wouldn't be surprised if the owners are taking large sums out - it's what US sports team owners do. They have spent a lot on transfers but given the money coming into the club it's not really coming out of the owners pocket.

But it just goes to show our priorities. People running 'your' football club using it to enrich themselves and you invade the place and smash stuff up. People running 'your' country using it to enrich themselves and their mates and costing 100k+ lives in the process - just carry on.

You think a Labour government could have reduced COVID deaths by 100,000? Wow

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

You think a Labour government could have reduced COVID deaths by 100,000? Wow

Unlikely but had a government taken heed of the warnings coming from Europe and introduced restrictions when it was recommended, put restrictions on the border enforcing people to quarantine on arrival or banning travel from his risk areas it'd have made it easier to track early on and contain. Also not coming out of restrictions early twice just to flare up again would've been good.

Plus I'm not saying I'd have expected Labour or anyone else to do all these things either. We can never know. What we can know is what those in charge actually did.

It was more a commentary on the apathy of this nation towards things that affect every aspect of their lives compared to something which in comparison is pretty trivial. We had more people complain about the injustice to Deirdre Barlow in Corrie ffs.

 

[rob9872]

Well... when they took the fans' shares off them, the evidence is to the contrary.

I can't begin to tell you how much I hate SISU, but I do think they genuinely had no idea about the fabric of football at the start. They are learning and have a considerable way to go. In fact it would be a nice touch now if they handed those shares worth less than 1% back as a token gesture. Would be great PR and cost them nothing. I'd rather they had them than this fantasy fan model of input which would attract power hungry fans like the Trust Board rather than a genuine representation of fans across the entire spectrum of our support.

 

[clint van damme]

I can't begin to tell you how much I hate SISU, but I do think they genuinely had no idea about the fabric of football at the start. They are learning and have a considerable way to go. In fact it would be a nice touch now if they handed those shares worth less than 1% back as a token gesture. Would be great PR and cost them nothing. I'd rather they had them than this fantasy fan model of input which would attract power hungry fans like the Trust Board rather than a genuine representation of fans across the entire spectrum of our support.

If we had 50 plus 1 I doubt the trust would exist.
Its about as near to genuine fan representation as you can get

 

[covcity4life]

Think solidarity in football is important. But with social media its all about tribalism now

A club is alwaya goijg to be to richer thab abother. Doesn't mean they can't have stuff to protest about imo

 

[Grendel]

Think solidarity in football is important. But with social media its all about tribalism now

A club is alwaya goijg to be to richer thab abother. Doesn't mean they can't have stuff to protest about imo

another has been on today and explained they are not wining enough and the glaziers are taking money out than giving it to the club to win more trophies. They should be investing their own money in so they dominate everything - the guy who said it was from Rochdale

I’m sure the Rochdale FC fans listening will have great sympathy with the cause

It’s funny. The guy is as out of touch wit reality as those pressing for the Super League

 

[chiefdave]

Think solidarity in football is important.

Surprised at the number of our supporters who think Man Utd fans have nothing to complain about and should just shut up and take what they get from the owners. Is their situation really that different to ours, albeit on a much grander scale?

Man Utd were debt free when they took over. The club was purchased using money from hedge funds and the debt transferred onto the club. Interest rates were reportedly being charged at over 15% taking huge amounts out of the club every year. Staggering sums in dividends and management fees also being taken out. All while they have a, by PL standards, not fit for purpose training facility badly in need of upgrading and a stadium falling into disrepair due to lack of maintenance.

Yes they're spending huge amounts of money on transfers and wages but its all relative. Sure there's EFL and NL sides who could look at us and say the same but nobody in their right mind is going to claim SISU are liberal with splashing the cash on the squad.

 

[rob9872]

Surprised at the number of our supporters who think Man Utd fans have nothing to complain about and should just shut up and take what they get from the owners. Is their situation really that different to ours, albeit on a much grander scale?

Man Utd were debt free when they took over. The club was purchased using money from hedge funds and the debt transferred onto the club. Interest rates were reportedly being charged at over 15% taking huge amounts out of the club every year. Staggering sums in dividends and management fees also being taken out. All while they have a, by PL standards, not fit for purpose training facility badly in need of upgrading and a stadium falling into disrepair due to lack of maintenance.

Yes they're spending huge amounts of money on transfers and wages but its all relative. Sure there's EFL and NL sides who could look at us and say the same but nobody in their right mind is going to claim SISU are liberal with splashing the cash on the squad.

We were in genuine chance of collapse and doing a Bury, Man Utd would never be allowed to cease, its an international instead I'd wager would be propped up by government funding if ever required as Real or Barca do in Spain. You can have sympathy and a different view, but the two situations of them and us are incomparable, we'd have had no club to support.

What exactly do you think is their issue? A fan should be interested in long-term stability of club and what happens on the pitch. Well invested, 2nd in league, Europe final. Must be awful for them.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Well... when they took the fans' shares off them, the evidence is to the contrary.

Things change over a decade dont they? Or have you never done anything differerbt? Also why would I lie I’m just saying what’s been said

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

If we had 50 plus 1 I doubt the trust would exist.
Its about as near to genuine fan representation as you can get

Why would any owner invest when they don’t decide what happens?

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

another has been on today and explained they are not wining enough and the glaziers are taking money out than giving it to the club to win more trophies. They should be investing their own money in so they dominate everything - the guy who said it was from Rochdale

I’m sure the Rochdale FC fans listening will have great sympathy with the cause

It’s funny. The guy is as out of touch wit reality as those pressing for the Super League

I so agree with that!! Greed has a spectrum as does need and I’d campaign for bury before Man U

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Things change over a decade dont they? Or have you never done anything differerbt? Also why would I lie I’m just saying what’s been said

I'm not saying you are lying. I am saying it's easy to come up ith a flippant line when talking to people. Of course she'd welcome fan involvement at a cost, she'd welcome a coalition of Stalin, Pol Pot, Pinochet, Salazar, and Mussolini if they came up with enough cash!

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Surprised at the number of our supporters who think Man Utd fans have nothing to complain about and should just shut up and take what they get from the owners. Is their situation really that different to ours, albeit on a much grander scale?

Man Utd were debt free when they took over. The club was purchased using money from hedge funds and the debt transferred onto the club. Interest rates were reportedly being charged at over 15% taking huge amounts out of the club every year. Staggering sums in dividends and management fees also being taken out. All while they have a, by PL standards, not fit for purpose training facility badly in need of upgrading and a stadium falling into disrepair due to lack of maintenance.

Yes they're spending huge amounts of money on transfers and wages but its all relative. Sure there's EFL and NL sides who could look at us and say the same but nobody in their right mind is going to claim SISU are liberal with splashing the cash on the squad.

It’s balance. Most fans at United want to be top not second and in the champions league final rather than the europa league. There are some genuine people annoyed at onwers taking money out and debt etc but few of the thousands who went on the pitch and punched police officers.
As for being like us. Our owners aren’t taking money out of the club they are paying back loans. It would be great if they’d agree not to for a period of time but unlikely when there’s some available

 

[Evo1883]

Surprised at the number of our supporters who think Man Utd fans have nothing to complain about and should just shut up and take what they get from the owners. Is their situation really that different to ours, albeit on a much grander scale?

Man Utd were debt free when they took over. The club was purchased using money from hedge funds and the debt transferred onto the club. Interest rates were reportedly being charged at over 15% taking huge amounts out of the club every year. Staggering sums in dividends and management fees also being taken out. All while they have a, by PL standards, not fit for purpose training facility badly in need of upgrading and a stadium falling into disrepair due to lack of maintenance.

Yes they're spending huge amounts of money on transfers and wages but its all relative. Sure there's EFL and NL sides who could look at us and say the same but nobody in their right mind is going to claim SISU are liberal with splashing the cash on the squad.

I agree
In this case it's not remotely comparible to a middle of the road club like Coventry is it .

"You can't moan because we went to league 2 blah blah " say fans

We are talking about a football club that is arguably the world's largest depending on which metric used , its the very definition of a super club, not a big club , a super club .
The owners have taken hundreds of millions out the club accumulating to a figure somewhere between 1 and 2 billion , that would put almost the entire football league out of business if it was taken from their own clubs .

Their protests are more than justified

 

[clint van damme]

Why would any owner invest when they don’t decide what happens?

they do decide but there are certain parameters. I'd say it also does more to deter unscrupulous owners than the impotent fit and proper person measures over here.
From what I see of the German model, and I'm no expert, it's not perfect but there's a lot we could learn.

For example Monday night football was very unpopular so the fans got it stopped. We play when Sky tell us and sod the inconvenience. It's certainly worth supporters here looking in to.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I'm not saying you are lying. I am saying it's easy to come up ith a flippant line when talking to people. Of course she'd welcome fan involvement at a cost, she'd welcome a coalition of Stalin, Pol Pot, Pinochet, Salazar, and Mussolini if they came up with enough cash!

I mean genuinely I feel there is movement. We’d like a fan on the board in a proper role - work in progress for now

 

[clint van damme]

I agree
In this case it's not remotely compatible to a middle of the road club like Coventry is it .

"You can't moan because we went to league 2 blah blah " say fans

We are talking about a football club that is arguably the world's largest depending on which metric used , its the very definition of a super club, not a big club , a super club .
The owners have taken hundreds of millions out the club accumulating to a figure somewhere between 1 and 2 billion , that would put almost the entire football league out of business if it was taken from their own clubs .

Their protests are more than justified

and owners who tried to put them at the centre of a hugely unpopular total restructure of European football.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I agree
In this case it's not remotely comparible to a middle of the road club like Coventry is it .

"You can't moan because we went to league 2 blah blah " say fans

We are talking about a football club that is arguably the world's largest depending on which metric used , its the very definition of a super club, not a big club , a super club .
The owners have taken hundreds of millions out the club accumulating to a figure somewhere between 1 and 2 billion , that would put almost the entire football league out of business if it was taken from their own clubs .

Their protests are more than justified

Man, let's stick to football, I agree with you a lot there

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

they do decide but there are certain parameters. I'd say it also does more to deter unscrupulous owners than the impotent fit and proper person measures over here.
From what I see of the German model, and I'm no expert, it's not perfect but there's a lot we could learn.

For example Monday night football was very unpopular so the fans got it stopped. We play when Sky tell us and sod the inconvenience. It's certainly worth supporters here looking in to.

I’m told the german model is coming from complete fan ownership to some form of private involvement so pretty much different to us

 

[Grendel]

I mean genuinely I feel there is movement. We’d like a fan on the board in a proper role - work in progress for now

It would be a Jonathan Strange lap dog arrangement or a stooge like Frank Pritchard - avoid at all costs

 

[wingy]

I think my comments may have been misconstrued.
I wasn't comparing us to them, merely that protesting took us nowhere in the end, I expect the same to happen here .
It will be one against the other just some noise these owners will overcome.

 

[Houchens Head]

Coventry City season ticket holders are planning a protest outside the Ricoh. Coventry police are thinking about deploying 2 PCSO's to deal with it.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Coventry City season ticket holders are planning a protest outside the Ricoh. Coventry police are thinking about deploying 2 PCSO's to deal with it.

You saw the Wasps protest, then.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

It would be a Jonathan Strange lap dog arrangement or a stooge like Frank Pritchard - avoid at all costs

Doesn’t have to be with some expectation and realism

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

It’s balance. Most fans at United want to be top not second and in the champions league final rather than the europa league. There are some genuine people annoyed at onwers taking money out and debt etc but few of the thousands who went on the pitch and punched police officers.
As for being like us. Our owners aren’t taking money out of the club they are paying back loans. It would be great if they’d agree not to for a period of time but unlikely when there’s some available

SISU are paying back loans owed to themselves but they're all accruing interest at a decent rate. So while they haven't really been taking the money out much they are owed a lot more in the accounts than they've actually put in.

Glazers however are treating Man U like a US sport franchise and just taking the money out while using the club as collateral for the funds they used to buy it in the first place.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

It would be a Jonathan Strange lap dog arrangement or a stooge like Frank Pritchard - avoid at all costs

I agree with Grendel

 

[Grendel]

SISU are paying back loans owed to themselves but they're all accruing interest at a decent rate. So while they haven't really been taking the money out much they are owed a lot more in the accounts than they've actually put in.

Glazers however are treating Man U like a US sport franchise and just taking the money out while using the club as collateral for the funds they used to buy it in the first place.

Yeah it’s tragic only signing Harry McGuire for £80m - penny pinching bastards