Build back in a gender neutral more feminine way (8 Viewers)

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

It is true though, if you're willing to put in the work in, for example, you can go to college and do a range of courses to better yourself, no point in crying because someone else was born with a silver spoon up there arse and they answer phones at daddy's firm for 100k a year

A thick bastard at Eton and a clever fucker from Foleshill. Who's getting into the top uni's?

You have a great business idea and someone already established nicks it, undercuts you on price and ties you up in the courts regarding IPR until you go bust.

Everyone is equal. Some are far more equal than others.

 

---

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Boris Johnson says post-Covid world needs to be ‘more feminine’

PM admits austerity ‘mistake’ after 2008 crash allowed inequality to grow

www.google.co.uk

What’s he on about?

Build back fairer!!!
Build back more equally!!!!

mmmmmm

Someone's told him it'd sound good and people would like it. I agree with the general gist of it, but deep down I know he doesn't actually mean it. It's just another soundbite. It's the kind of thing Corbyn said, and Starmer, and was dismissed as leftie nonsense. It shows it doesn't matter what is being said anymore, purely who's mouth it comes out of.

As I've said before look at actions not words. Whenever the chance to actually do these things gets presented to parliament he and his party vote against them. Things like the PPE procurement shows he couldn't give a fuck.

 

[duffer]

Everyone does have the same chance, the system in this country gives ample opportunity to better yourself if you're willing to put the work in?

Just out of interest, what do you do to to better the opportunities of your fellow countrymen?

There quite patently isn't the same chance for everyone, that's a ridiculously stupid thing to say, even for someone as deliberately ignorant as you.

I'd say read an official report or two (link below) but I know that despite your pleading the opposite you've never really read anything that might challenge your piss-poor justification for voting Tory.

Stick to "I'm alright Jack"; at least it's the truth and it saves you having to think or make up stuff.

You're just a classic Tory hypocrite:

"I love my country (except for a large proportion of my countrymen that I couldn't give a shit about).".

"Clap for carers (but whatever happens don't pay them any more)."

It's rank hypocrisy, at least you get a bit of credit for coming clean on it.

Social mobility in Great Britain: state of the nation 2018 to 2019

Sixth annual report from the social mobility commission.

www.gov.uk

 

[duffer]

Just out of interest, what do you do to to better the opportunities of your fellow countrymen?

I vote for something that I think might at least give the poorest of them a better chance (even if it might mean that personally I might be slightly worse off).

And I challenge obviously crap arguments, not in the hope of convincing their proponents, because they'll rarely engage in serious debate, but so that the facts are at least out there.

(I also pay my fair share of taxes, don't give or take bribes for favours, and I pay for my own wallpaper).

 

[Grendel]

I vote for something that I think might at least give the poorest of them a better chance (even if it might mean that personally I might be slightly worse off).

And I challenge obviously crap arguments, not in the hope of convincing their proponents, because they'll rarely engage in serious debate, but so that the facts are at least out there.

(I also pay my fair share of taxes, don't give or take bribes for favours, and I pay for my own wallpaper).

There is of course zero evidence that the Labour Party will make anyone better off.

 

[skybluetony176]

There is of course zero evidence that the Labour Party will make anyone better off.

Like Brexit then.

 

[Marty]

I vote for something that I think might at least give the poorest of them a better chance (even if it might mean that personally I might be slightly worse off).

And I challenge obviously crap arguments, not in the hope of convincing their proponents, because they'll rarely engage in serious debate, but so that the facts are at least out there.

(I also pay my fair share of taxes, don't give or take bribes for favours, and I pay for my own wallpaper).

In other words you do fuck all to help out anyone. Could have listed anything, feeding the homeless, volunteering, giving to charity and the best you could come up with is that you put an X in a box once every four years & try to insult randoms on the internet who don't agree with you.

What do you mean when you say 'give the poorest of them a better chance'? Education for adults is already free for GCSE's and at minimum cost once you get into more niche courses. Granted Uni is a massive commitment but it comes with massive benefits as well, such as not having to pay back tuition fees until you hit a salary of £24,000? not having to pay council tax, even lenders will give you leeway with mortgages and debt. There's ample opportunity to progress if you're willing to put the time and effort in.

Btw, I think the clap for carers was stupid and that nurses should be given a pay rise.

 

[COV]

In other words you do fuck all to help out anyone. Could have listed anything, feeding the homeless, volunteering, giving to charity and the best you could come up with is that you put an X in a box once every four years & try to insult randoms on the internet who don't agree with you.

What do you mean when you say 'give the poorest of them a better chance'? Education for adults is already free for GCSE's and at minimum cost once you get into more niche courses. Granted Uni is a massive commitment but it comes with massive benefits as well, such as not having to pay back tuition fees until you hit a salary of £24,000? not having to pay council tax, even lenders will give you leeway with mortgages and debt. There's ample opportunity to progress if you're willing to put the time and effort in.

Btw, I think the clap for carers was stupid and that nurses should be given a pay rise.

You are correct- there IS ample opportunity to progress. But it is not equally spread across society, and thats the point being made.

 

[shmmeee]

In other words you do fuck all to help out anyone. Could have listed anything, feeding the homeless, volunteering, giving to charity and the best you could come up with is that you put an X in a box once every four years & try to insult randoms on the internet who don't agree with you.

What do you mean when you say 'give the poorest of them a better chance'? Education for adults is already free for GCSE's and at minimum cost once you get into more niche courses. Granted Uni is a massive commitment but it comes with massive benefits as well, such as not having to pay back tuition fees until you hit a salary of £24,000? not having to pay council tax, even lenders will give you leeway with mortgages and debt. There's ample opportunity to progress if you're willing to put the time and effort in.

Btw, I think the clap for carers was stupid and that nurses should be given a pay rise.

Problem with this argument is it posits that we exist in a perfect state with everyone reaching their potential and I’m not sure there’s any evidence for that.

I’d also argue all the volunteering in the world won’t beat a decent government being elected in terms of helping the disadvantaged.

I found teaching very personally rewarding, but couldn’t help but feel I’d directly impact more kids working for an educational software firm or an NGO, ultimately you’re at the behest of the government of the day and bound by existing practices as an individual.

Also charity support is very spotty and at the behest of a few individuals as to who to help. Government support has better impact every time. If for no other reason than they’re legally accountable in many cases.

 

[Marty]

You are correct- there IS ample opportunity to progress. But it is not equally spread across society, and that's the point being made.

Official statistics.

Further education as a whole




University:-

• 74.7% of people starting undergraduate degrees in the 2018 to 2019 academic year were White (including White ethnic minorities)
• 11.5% were Asian, 7.9% were Black, 4.2% had Mixed ethnicity, and 1.7% were from the Other ethnic group
• in the 12 years to July 2019, the percentage of entrants from the Asian, Black, Mixed and Other ethnic groups combined increased from 17.2% to 25.3%
• in the same period, the percentage of entrants from the Asian ethnic group increased from 8.0% to 11.5% – the largest percentage point increase out of all ethnic groups
• the percentage of entrants from the Mixed ethnic group went up by 1.8 percentage points from 2.4% to 4.2%
• in the same period, the percentage of entrants from the White ethnic group went down by around 8 percentage points from 82.8% to 74.7%, the only ethnic group which had a decrease

It will be harder for some then others due to things out of their control, but the opportunities are open to everyone if you're willing to work for it.

 

[COV]

Official statistics.

Further education as a whole

View attachment 20444


University:-

• 74.7% of people starting undergraduate degrees in the 2018 to 2019 academic year were White (including White ethnic minorities)
• 11.5% were Asian, 7.9% were Black, 4.2% had Mixed ethnicity, and 1.7% were from the Other ethnic group
• in the 12 years to July 2019, the percentage of entrants from the Asian, Black, Mixed and Other ethnic groups combined increased from 17.2% to 25.3%
• in the same period, the percentage of entrants from the Asian ethnic group increased from 8.0% to 11.5% – the largest percentage point increase out of all ethnic groups
• the percentage of entrants from the Mixed ethnic group went up by 1.8 percentage points from 2.4% to 4.2%
• in the same period, the percentage of entrants from the White ethnic group went down by around 8 percentage points from 82.8% to 74.7%, the only ethnic group which had a decrease

It will be harder for some then others due to things out of their control, but the opportunities are open to everyone if you're willing to work for it.

You're really saying the opportunities are the same for everyone?

 

[Marty]

Problem with this argument is it posits that we exist in a perfect state with everyone reaching their potential and I’m not sure there’s any evidence for that.

I’d also argue all the volunteering in the world won’t beat a decent government being elected in terms of helping the disadvantaged.

I found teaching very personally rewarding, but couldn’t help but feel I’d directly impact more kids working for an educational software firm or an NGO, ultimately you’re at the behest of the government of the day and bound by existing practices as an individual.

Also charity support is very spotty and at the behest of a few individuals as to who to help. Government support has better impact every time. If for no other reason than they’re legally accountable in many cases.

See, you say one thing, but your actions are something different. Found a way to hide your new found wealth from the tax man yet?

 

[Ian1779]

Official statistics.

Further education as a whole

View attachment 20444


University:-

• 74.7% of people starting undergraduate degrees in the 2018 to 2019 academic year were White (including White ethnic minorities)
• 11.5% were Asian, 7.9% were Black, 4.2% had Mixed ethnicity, and 1.7% were from the Other ethnic group
• in the 12 years to July 2019, the percentage of entrants from the Asian, Black, Mixed and Other ethnic groups combined increased from 17.2% to 25.3%
• in the same period, the percentage of entrants from the Asian ethnic group increased from 8.0% to 11.5% – the largest percentage point increase out of all ethnic groups
• the percentage of entrants from the Mixed ethnic group went up by 1.8 percentage points from 2.4% to 4.2%
• in the same period, the percentage of entrants from the White ethnic group went down by around 8 percentage points from 82.8% to 74.7%, the only ethnic group which had a decrease

It will be harder for some then others due to things out of their control, but the opportunities are open to everyone if you're willing to work for it.

Again - you’ve used circumstantial data as proof that ‘opportunities are equal for everyone’ - which again is shite. This does not take into consideration those that don’t elect for education beyond Level 3 and let’s talk about the biggest barrier to that… a lack of money.

 

[Marty]

You're really saying the opportunities are the same for everyone?

Exactly the same? No, not at all, but the opportunity is there for everyone. Richard Branson's children will have different opportunities to me, does that mean I should just give up because someone else has it easier?

 

[Grendel]

You're really saying the opportunities are the same for everyone?

Well no as people like Mr Starmer benefitted from a private education but o don’t begrudge that or Mr McDonnell attending a £36000 a year boarding school. Do you?

 

[shmmeee]

See, you say one thing, but your actions are something different. Found a way to hide your new found wealth from the tax man yet?

I pay my taxes gladly, I just wanted to know if I was missing a trick because it’s not my job to set tax law nor to pay more than legally required. If I ran the world I’d remove income tax entirely so…

And everyone is a hypocrite, I’m not sure of the relevance. I’m saying how I think the country should be run not a personal moral code for life.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Official statistics.

Further education as a whole

View attachment 20444


University:-

• 74.7% of people starting undergraduate degrees in the 2018 to 2019 academic year were White (including White ethnic minorities)
• 11.5% were Asian, 7.9% were Black, 4.2% had Mixed ethnicity, and 1.7% were from the Other ethnic group
• in the 12 years to July 2019, the percentage of entrants from the Asian, Black, Mixed and Other ethnic groups combined increased from 17.2% to 25.3%
• in the same period, the percentage of entrants from the Asian ethnic group increased from 8.0% to 11.5% – the largest percentage point increase out of all ethnic groups
• the percentage of entrants from the Mixed ethnic group went up by 1.8 percentage points from 2.4% to 4.2%
• in the same period, the percentage of entrants from the White ethnic group went down by around 8 percentage points from 82.8% to 74.7%, the only ethnic group which had a decrease

It will be harder for some then others due to things out of their control, but the opportunities are open to everyone if you're willing to work for it.

Interesting that you decided to take everyone not getting equal opportunity to mean along racial lines. For me it's more along class/ wealth lines, although those of ethnic minorities are more likely to fall into that category and if anything what you've shown here supports that even taking into account the larger white population. I'd also argue whether females get the same opportunities as men for the same input and hard work.

So I ask whether Bozza Johnson of Sidney Stringer would get the same opportunities Alexander Boris De Pfeffel Johnson of Eton got if he got the same results academically etc which he'd undoubtedly have to work far harder to achieve? Would he get offered a place at Oxford? Would he have been given the jobs as a journalist and the numerous other opportunities after getting sacked from those jobs? I think we all know what the opinion of him as an absent father with many kids by numerous women and probably even more would be if he were a man from an inner city area.

But, yep, it's the same for everyone if they put in the same amount of hard work.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Interesting that you decided to take everyone not getting equal opportunity to mean along racial lines. For me it's more along class/ wealth lines, although those of ethnic minorities are more likely to fall into that category and if anything what you've shown here supports that even taking into account the larger white population. I'd also argue whether females get the same opportunities as men for the same input and hard work.

So I ask whether Bozza Johnson of Sidney Stringer would get the same opportunities Alexander Boris De Pfeffel Johnson of Eton got if he got the same results academically etc which he'd undoubtedly have to work far harder to achieve? Would he get offered a place at Oxford? Would he have been given the jobs as a journalist and the numerous other opportunities after getting sacked from those jobs? I think we all know what the opinion of him as an absent father with many kids by numerous women and probably even more would be if he were a man from an inner city area.

But, yep, it's the same for everyone if they put in the same amount of hard work.

It’s the American myth those who work hard succeed those who fail don’t work hard. The facts just don’t back it up

 

[Marty]

Interesting that you decided to take the ascertain of everyone not getting equal opportunity to mean along racial lines. For me it's more along class/ wealth lines, although those of ethnic minorities are more likely to fall into that category and if anything what you've shown here supports that even taking into account the larger white population. I'd also argue whether females get the same opportunities as men for the same input and hard work.

So I ask whether Bozza Johnson of Sidney Stringer would get the same opportunities Alexander Boris De Pfeffel Johnson of Eton got if he got the same results academically etc which he'd undoubtedly have to work far harder to achieve? Would he get offered a place at Oxford? Would he have been given the jobs as a journalist and the numerous other opportunities after getting sacked from those jobs? I think we all know what the opinion of him as an absent father with many kids by numerous women and probably even more would be if he were a man from an inner city area.

But, yep, it's the same for everyone if they put in the same amount of hard work.

I think you'll find it was actually you that used the racial lines, Thick bastard at Eton (you mean Bojo) & a clever person from Foleshill (you mean Asian).

Funny that you bring up the most privileged group to ever walk the planet, western women. Not only do they achieve higher grades all through the education system, they out earn men all through their 20's (tend to take a step back once having children(as it should be)), shorter jail terms for the same offences, less work place fatalities, less suicides, less likely to be homeless, family court is massively in their favour and far more likely to keep children as well as more likely to stop the other parent seeing their children, ultimately they live longer too. 15 years out of the last 40 we've had a female prime minister, female head of state for 70 years.

I've answered that question, it's down to connections, and of course the nobody needs to work harder, What are we going to do? say you're not allowed friends, just incase his child grows up to be a plumber and will charge you half the price he charges the person he has no connection too down the road.

Edit:- I'm not going to reply to this thread now, just going round in circles.

 

[Grendel]

I think you'll find it was actually you that used the racial lines, Thick bastard at Eton (you mean Bojo) & a clever person from Foleshill (you mean Asian).

Funny that you bring up the most privileged group to ever walk the planet, western women. Not only do they achieve higher grades all through the education system, they out earn men all through their 20's (tend to take a step back once having children(as it should be)), shorter jail terms for the same offences, less work place fatalities, less suicides, less likely to be homeless, family court is massively in their favour and far more likely to keep children as well as more likely to stop the other parent seeing their children, ultimately they live longer too. 15 years out of the last 40 we've had a female prime minister, female head of state for 70 years.

I've answered that question, it's down to connections, and of course the nobody needs to work harder, What are we going to do? say you're not allowed friends, just incase his child grows up to be a plumber and will charge you half the price he charges the person he has no connection too down the road.

Edit:- I'm not going to reply to this thread now, just going round in circles.

Why bother. I suspect dreamer dreamt of a better life and still lives the same miserable one he’s lived for years - no property hike, no big car, no big holiday. He is angry and wants to blame something for his own personal inadequacies - he’s not alone on here.

 

[duffer]

So no one on the right here has actually addressed the government's own social mobility study, which shows beyond any doubt the disparities in life chances (and even life expectancy) because of socio-economic status.

All you hear is 'work harder, it's your own fault'.

They have to tell themselves that, because otherwise they can't really justify their political position (which is, as Marty admitted, best expressed as "I'm all right Jack").

What do Labour do, Marty asks? Not as much as they should, I'd answer, but at least they try to right some wrongs.

Tories just stick their fingers in their ears, close their eyes, avoid any inconvenient truths, and defer to their 'betters'.

 

[robbiekeane]

@Marty think the point is that you keep saying that everyone has the same chance in this country. That’s not the case at all. It’s better than the US for example but to say everyone has the same chance is naive and you’re probably blinded by your privilege

Everyone does have the same chance, the system in this country gives ample opportunity to better yourself if you're willing to put the work in?

What if your parents are drug addicts or just not very nice people, and they kick you out of the house at 16 years old as is their legal right I believe. Are you going to be able to concentrate on getting A levels wherever you end up, and then go to university? What if you have to look after your younger siblings because your parents are incapable?

What if you grow up in a really really shitty area and end up getting pulled into the wrong crowd when you’re younger?

How is that the same opportunity as someone who has grown up in a wealthier upper middle class family, is able to provide a really stable upbringing, spend a couple grand on a tutor to get those pesky grades up that you’re struggling with, and then send you off to uni. After getting your degree from a reputable uni and spending the summer interning at your dads mates business, you get your foot in the door at a nice big company, you get access to your trust fund/inheritance from your rich granny, buy yourself a house with a sizeable down payment and live happily ever after.

You’ll probably continue the cycle living a comfortable life and leave some nice inheritance for your child and your family will continue to repeat the cycle.

You really can’t say that everyone has equal opportunity at all. Despite our country doing more than others like the US to try and level the playing field, we have a way to go.

 

[robbiekeane]

He is angry and wants to blame something for his own personal inadequacies - he’s not alone on here.

Spoken like a truly privileged middle class straight white male id imagine.

 

[skybluetony176]

He is angry and wants to blame something for his own personal inadequacies - he’s not alone on here.

Like Brexit.

 

[SBT]

Funny that you bring up the most privileged group to ever walk the planet, western women. Not only do they achieve higher grades all through the education system, they out earn men all through their 20's (tend to take a step back once having children(as it should be)), shorter jail terms for the same offences, less work place fatalities, less suicides, less likely to be homeless, family court is massively in their favour and far more likely to keep children as well as more likely to stop the other parent seeing their children, ultimately they live longer too. 15 years out of the last 40 we've had a female prime minister, female head of state for 70 years.

One of the more deranged paragraphs we’ve had on here for a while. Too many highlights to count, but claiming that having a female monarch is a sign that women have never had it so good may be the best of the lot. A true inspiration to girlbosses everywhere.

 

[Grendel]

One of the more deranged paragraphs we’ve had on here for a while. Too many highlights to count, but claiming that having a female monarch is a sign that women have never had it so good may be the best of the lot. A true inspiration to girlbosses everywhere.

he also mentioned female prime minister - we’ve had two clearly - as well as a female Asian Home Secretary from humble beginnings, and 4 other cabinet Positions I think are held by women

 

[SBT]

he also mentioned female prime minister - we’ve had two clearly - as well as a female Asian Home Secretary from humble beginnings, and 4 other cabinet Positions I think are held by women

15 years out of the last 40! Great job, ladies! Never did more privileged creatures walk the earth.

(Well, it’s actually 12 years out of the last 40, and 14 years out of the last 300, but perhaps you agree this is just “as it should be”)

 

[Grendel]

15 years out of the last 40! Great job, ladies! Never did more privileged creatures walk the earth.

(Well, it’s actually 12 years out of the last 40, and 14 years out of the last 300, but perhaps you agree this is just “as it should be”)

remind me which party actually has had the highest female representation of high office - the progressive left one or the old Etonian gammon one?

It’s also rather childish and absurd to try and claim lack of female representation before they were even allowed the vote but each to their own

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

he also mentioned female prime minister - we’ve had two clearly - as well as a female Asian Home Secretary from humble beginnings, and 4 other cabinet Positions I think are held by women

I think it’s a fair point you know

 

[SBT]

It’s also rather childish and absurd to try and claim lack of female representation before they were even allowed the vote but each to their own

So remind me again why you’re springing to the defence of the guy who says western women are the most privileged group to ever walk the planet?

 

[Grendel]

So remind me again why you’re springing to the defence of the guy who says western women are the most privileged group to ever walk the planet?

im not I’m pointing out the absurdity and ignorance of your response

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I think you'll find it was actually you that used the racial lines, Thick bastard at Eton (you mean Bojo) & a clever person from Foleshill (you mean Asian).

Funny that you bring up the most privileged group to ever walk the planet, western women. Not only do they achieve higher grades all through the education system, they out earn men all through their 20's (tend to take a step back once having children(as it should be)), shorter jail terms for the same offences, less work place fatalities, less suicides, less likely to be homeless, family court is massively in their favour and far more likely to keep children as well as more likely to stop the other parent seeing their children, ultimately they live longer too. 15 years out of the last 40 we've had a female prime minister, female head of state for 70 years.

I've answered that question, it's down to connections, and of course the nobody needs to work harder, What are we going to do? say you're not allowed friends, just incase his child grows up to be a plumber and will charge you half the price he charges the person he has no connection too down the road.

Edit:- I'm not going to reply to this thread now, just going round in circles.

No. I used Foleshill because it was the first one that came into my head as an area deemed to be underprivileged/poor. Again the fact you've instantly latched onto the racial aspect of the area is interesting. As you've mentioned it yes it does have a large Asian/minority population but it's not exclusively so and a white kid from that area would have many barriers to success as any other.

You, however, specifically highlighted data based solely around ethnicity to make a point about equal opportunity when there are numerous other barriers beside that and class/wealth is shown to be a much bigger factor - a rich black/Asian kid has far more chance of success than a poor white kid.

There will be some advantages of womanhood as you've mentioned but there's still a lot of prejudice around about woman in higher jobs, some bizarrely stating stronger female empathy as a reason they're unsuitable when it's arguably just what we need to counteract the competitive, confrontational masculinity that is still massively prevalent even in Western society let alone elsewhere. I think using the Queen as an example is a bit of a push as that's a position of birthright, not hard work and the reason she had it was because there was no male heir to give it to.

As for being the most privileged set, I think you've forgotten the post-war generation. Social security, NHS, cut-price house ownership, much longer life expectancy but ability to retire and many have extremely long retirements with state pensions and final salary schemes, white goods giving them much more freedom and free time and things like car ownership and overseas travel allowing them to do more with that time. And even they pale into insignificance compared to the benefits for those born into wealth and influence.

 

[Grendel]

God dreamer has WOKE up to bore us into submission

 

[SBT]

im not I’m pointing out the absurdity and ignorance of your response

Yes, your observation that women weren’t even allowed to vote until 100 years ago really blows a hole into my argument that western women aren’t the most privileged group on the planet.

 

[HuckerbyDublinWhelan]

Maybe they should lay out all the policies on the voting sheet, no names or parties and you just tick the column with most policies you agree with.

tongue in cheek of course, but let’s face it Boris the Lad appeals to the masses a lot more than Keir Starmer