European championships 2020 thread (15 Viewers)

[SlowerThanPlatt]

I’ve always thought of world class as the top 5 in their position in the world

 

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[TomRad85]

Gnabry is genuinely less effective than raheem sterling , he's had 1 exceptional season in his career so far .

Sterling statistically, from a similar position...is far better .

Check it

I'd say it's questionable which of the 2 is better tbh, but that's not the question i asked. Sterling at his best may well be world class but he's a funny one, can go from world beater to useless overnight.

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[TomRad85]

Kane’s record is world class, but he needs to find form fast

Kane is a world class centre forward yes, no question. Deserves better than Tottenham that's for sure.

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[Liquid Gold]

It's a shame France's next game is Hungary. I'd have liked to see them play Portugal with them both wanting a win to secure things.

Will be a good test of how good both Portugal and Germany are though.

 

[Evo1883]

I'd say it's questionable which of the 2 is better tbh, but that's not the question i asked. Sterling at his best may well be world class but he's a funny one, can go from world beater to useless overnight.

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Sterling has had 3 20 goals plus including a 30 goal season at man city in the last 6 seasons ..

If gnabry , who has 1 20 goals season is world class then Sterling is an all time great .

Which ofcourse he's not

 

[Evo1883]

Kane is a world class centre forward yes, no question. Deserves better than Tottenham that's for sure.

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He is ofcourse

 

[TomRad85]

Sterling has had 3 20 goals plus including a 30 goal season at man city in the last 6 seasons ..

If gnabry , who has 1 20 goals season is world class then Sterling is an all time great .

Which ofcourse he's not

Oh lord don't be a stats bore.

Who in the England team is world class was my question?

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[Evo1883]

Oh lord don't be a stats bore.

Who in the England team is world class was my question?

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I'm not being a stat bore , I'm telling you Sterling is a better player than gnabry and the stats back that up , Is all .

Harry kane is England's true world class player .
We have foden who will end up world class, besides that I'm not sure if we have any more

That's not really got anything to do with gnabry being world class though mate

Plenty of good players , but world class ? Not for me

 

[TomRad85]

I'm not being a stat bore , I'm telling you Sterling is a better player than gnabry and the stats back that up , Is all .

Harry kane is England's true world class player .
We have foden who will end up world class, besides that I'm not sure if we have any more

Not really, Gnabry is a bit of a late bloomer, historic stats are irrelevant. Sterling also plays a role for City that allows him to get more goals.
Only one of them has a Champions league medal.
Regardless I actually rate Sterling so I'm not sure why this has become the argument, I was just interested to see where you set the World Class bar.
I'd say playing regularly for a club like Bayern and winning the European Cup at least puts you close.

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[COV]

It's a shame France's next game is Hungary. I'd have liked to see them play Portugal with them both wanting a win to secure things.

Will be a good test of how good both Portugal and Germany are though.

thats a great point- Germany have to go at Portugal now, that should be a great game

 

[Evo1883]

Not really, Gnabry is a bit of a late bloomer, historic stats are irrelevant. Sterling also plays a role for City that allows him to get more goals.
Only one of them has a Champions league medal.
Regardless I actually rate Sterling so I'm not sure why this has become the argument, I was just interested to see where you set the World Class bar.
I'd say playing regularly for a club like Bayern and winning the European Cup at least puts you close.

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Well I'm not sure because winning the European Cup is a measure of being a world class player , Paul lambert is testament to that .

Gnabry might be world class to you and that's fine , he's not for me

 

[Liquid Gold]

Not really, Gnabry is a bit of a late bloomer, historic stats are irrelevant. Sterling also plays a role for City that allows him to get more goals.
Only one of them has a Champions league medal.
Regardless I actually rate Sterling so I'm not sure why this has become the argument, I was just interested to see where you set the World Class bar.
I'd say playing regularly for a club like Bayern and winning the European Cup at least puts you close.

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I'm only being pedantic here but does that mean James and Chilwell are world class?

England have 1 maybe 2 world class players and one potential world class player. Germany have none, probably for the first time in more htan half a century.

 

[COV]

I'm not being a stat bore , I'm telling you Sterling is a better player than gnabry and the stats back that up , Is all .

Harry kane is England's true world class player .
We have foden who will end up world class, besides that I'm not sure if we have any more

That's not really got anything to do with gnabry being world class though mate

Plenty of good players , but world class ? Not for me

disagree completely.
Gnabry’s record is skewed by his earlier career when he had problems and was unhappy.

anyway- when it comes to World Class players, it’s not the be all and end all- this quote by Mueller sums it up:

"In Germany, we don't believe in superstars. We are taught from an early age to play as a team, not to shine alone. That's why you won't see many German players winning a Ballon d'Or, but that's also why you can see 4 stars on our jersey."

 

[Evo1883]

I'm only being pedantic here but does that mean James and Chilwell are world class?

England have 1 maybe 2 world class players and one potential world class player. Germany have none, probably for the first time in more htan half a century.

Kroos has been world class or was at his peak

 

[Evo1883]

disagree completely.
Gnabry’s record is skewed by his earlier career when he had problems and was unhappy.

anyway- when it comes to World Class players, it’s not the be all and end all- this quote by Mueller sums it up:

"In Germany, we don't believe in superstars. We are taught from an early age to play as a team, not to shine alone. That's why you won't see many German players winning a Ballon d'Or, but that's also why you can see 4 stars on our jersey."

I'm looking specifically at his bayern stats , Sterling is the better player .
It doesn't mean he's not a good player , he certainly doesn't stand out

And I agree about Germany and its historical philosophies , but they are short of that at the moment

 

[TomRad85]

Well I'm not sure because winning the European Cup is a measure of being a world class player , Paul lambert is testament to that .

Gnabry might be world class to you and that's fine , he's not for me

Well I used to class World class as Messi, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo etc... but I've become a bit more generous with time as the bar from other people seemed to get lower, so to has mine.

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[TomRad85]

I'm looking specifically at his bayern stats , Sterling is the better player .
It doesn't mean he's not a good player , he certainly doesn't stand out

And I agree about Germany and its historical philosophies , but they are short of that at the moment

Sterling is a better player in your opinion. I'd be surprised if Bayern would agree to a swap.

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[Evo1883]

Well I used to class World class as Messi, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo etc... but I've become a bit more generous with time as the bar from other people seemed to get lower, so to has mine.

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You've become more generous because there's less actual world class individuals these days that stand out as opposed to 20 years ago .

Football was full of world class players , we have a batch of players who are good or very good with only a bagful that truly stand out from the crowd

 

[TomRad85]

You've become more generous because there's less actual world class individuals these days that stand out as opposed to 20 years ago .

Football was full of world class players , we have a batch of players who are good or very good with only a bagful that truly stand out from the crowd

I'd agree with you on that.

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[Liquid Gold]

Kroos has been world class or was at his peak

Another example of Germany not being what they were. He's past his peak now and they just don't seem to have the options to replace him whereas before they'd be lining round the block.

Of the three best prospects in the Bundesliga two are English and one is Norwegian. There two centre forwards in the squad one is a former world class false nine well past hi peak and someone that can't score for toffee in the PL.

It's amazing how far they've regressed since they won the WC

 

[COV]

Well I used to class World class as Messi, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo etc... but I've become a bit more generous with time as the bar from other people seemed to get lower, so to has mine.

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world class to me is when you’re in the top few in the world in your position. Bearing that in mind, probably neither of Sterling or Gnabry are in that group tbh. International class for sure though.

then you have the ‘all time greats’, and in my lifetime there have only been a few- Maradona, Zidane, Messi, Ronaldo (Brazil), Ronaldo (Portugal)- they’re the ones who can do things literally nobody else can do and hit levels nobody else has.

 

[Liquid Gold]

disagree completely.
Gnabry’s record is skewed by his earlier career when he had problems and was unhappy.

anyway- when it comes to World Class players, it’s not the be all and end all- this quote by Mueller sums it up:

"In Germany, we don't believe in superstars. We are taught from an early age to play as a team, not to shine alone. That's why you won't see many German players winning a Ballon d'Or, but that's also why you can see 4 stars on our jersey."

But would Germany swap squads with England?

 

[COV]

But would Germany swap squads with England?

Very hard to answer as I’m biased & not impartial, but….. I think maybe they would actually, even if only for Kane’s goalscoring record.

 

[Evo1883]

I dont think gnabry is a bad player , I have to stress that , he's a good player .

 

[Evo1883]

world class to me is when you’re in the top few in the world in your position. Bearing that in mind, probably neither of Sterling or Gnabry are in that group tbh. International class for sure though.

then you have the ‘all time greats’, and in my lifetime there have only been a few- Maradona, Zidane, Messi, Ronaldo (Brazil), Ronaldo (Portugal)- they’re the ones who can do things literally nobody else can do and hit levels nobody else has.

You have to add the midfielders and defenders

Argument for Matthaus , baresi and maldini and more to be included as all time greats

In their respective roles

 

[COV]

You have to add the midfielders and defenders

Argument for Matthaus , baresi and maldini and more to be included as all time greats

In their respective roles

baresi gets in, it’s a no from me for the other two.

At a push we could have had one- had Gascoigne had his head screwed on & looked after himself he could have made the list- he could do everything.

 

[mark82]

Who in England's squad is world class in your opinion?

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Kane.

Foden probably will be, not there yet. Lots of very good players though.

 

[Evo1883]

baresi gets in, it’s a no from me for the other two.

At a push we could have had one- had Gascoigne had his head screwed on & looked after himself he could have made the list- he could do everything.

No maldini as an all time great

 

[TomRad85]

I dont think gnabry is a bad player , I have to stress that , he's a good player .

And i think we've reached an agreement to an extent, if we're going off what used to be 'world class' I wouldn't class him as such either. But I do think there's a disappointingly small amount of world class players these days if you do go off that.

Away from that I'm afraid I think everyone is kidding themselves if they think England would have handled France better tonight.

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[TomRad85]

Kane.

Foden probably will be, not there yet. Lots of very good players though.

Yep that's about right I think.

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[COV]

No maldini as an all time great

the qualifying question for me is could the player do things that wouldn’t even have occurred to other players to attempt, let alone do?

 

[TomRad85]

baresi gets in, it’s a no from me for the other two.

At a push we could have had one- had Gascoigne had his head screwed on & looked after himself he could have made the list- he could do everything.

A no for Maldini? Damn, that's cold.

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[TomRad85]

the qualifying question for me is could the player do things that wouldn’t even have occurred to other players to attempt, let alone do?

That's not really a defenders job tbf

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[Liquid Gold]

And i think we've reached an agreement to an extent, if we're going off what used to be 'world class' I wouldn't class him as such either. But I do think there's a disappointingly small amount of world class players these days if you do go off that.

Away from that I'm afraid I think everyone is kidding themselves if they think England would have handled France better tonight.

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I think we'd have at least given Loris something to do. He wasn't tested at all tonight.

 

[Evo1883]

A no for Maldini? Damn, that's cold.

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Its a very rare opinion to be fair , most pundits and people would put maldini as an all time great , infact I'd say its the first time I've ever heard anybody say he wasn't.

Either way it's his opinion