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Deleted member 11652
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It’s pathetic. A World Cup where we got lucky and scraped past shite teams before being found out has lead to him getting a free pass for the next 3 tournaments. Joke
European championships 2020 thread (34 Viewers)
- Thread starter Evo1883
- Start date
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Sweden topped a group this tournament with Spain in it. Colombia were also everyone’s ‘dark horses’ going into the tournament.
Some ridiculous revisionism here. We got to a semi final of a World Cup for the first time in my lifetime and people moan.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Agreed. Whilst losing to Germany on Tuesday wouldn’t be apocalyptic, you’d like to see Southgate have a strong showing in 2022 to show we’re track before offering a new contract.
Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
Sweden are still absolutely shite.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Clearly they turn up at major tournaments. They’ve topped their last two group stages with Germany and Spain in them.
They also topped our group in 2002, for good measure.
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Deleted member 11652
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Columbia without James Rodriguez and we still couldn’t beat them in normal time. Sweden were and are shit Croatia were average. Easiest run to a world up final in modern history
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
Yeah you canonly beat what's in front of you anyway.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
You’re clearly going of reputation. In that World Cup, Sweden were better than Germany. With the way Germany were playing, we’d have beaten them anyway.
We could’ve had an easy-ish path in 2010, where we failed to top a really easy group.
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Deleted member 11652
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not at all. You only have to look at their squads. France had to play Belgium (who slapped us twice and beat Brazil) Argentina and Uruguay. The best player we had to play against in the knockouts was Falcao until the semi
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Earlsdon_Skyblue1
Well-Known Member
They are just organised defensively and that's it.
They don't have any attacking threat whatsoever really. Nearly any other team left in the competition should dispose of them easily, apart from possibly Ukraine, which is who they play next ironically.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
not at all. You only have to look at their squads. France had to play Belgium (who slapped us twice and beat Brazil) Argentina and Uruguay. The best player we had to play against in the knockouts was Falcao until the semi
Croatia topped Argentina’s group who only just scrapped out of the group with 4 points. Sweden topped Germany’s group.
If those major nations were any good in that tournament, we would have played them.
On reputation, you’re absolutely right. But, clearly Argentina and Germany were by no stretch performing well in that tournament.
I’m sure if we beat Germany on Tuesday the naysayers will point out we beat ‘the weakest Germany team in years’.
If we got to another semi-final this year, I’m sure you’d say we beat a ‘piss poor’ Sweden/Ukraine side when the former had to top a group with Spain in there to get to a quarters.
If you get to a semi final, it’s a successful tournament. There’s just not a strong argument otherwise.
LastGarrison
Well-Known Member
Denmark to win and BTTS @9/2.
LG’s banker of the day.
LG’s banker of the day.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Correct. They know their limitations and adapt to being a difficult outfit to beat. I don’t think Austria, Switzerland, Ukraine, Czech Republic or Wales would dispose of Sweden at all. You’re wildly exaggerating.
Italy traditionally are exactly the same (albeit to a much higher standard) and that’s led to some Italy teams going deep into tournaments despite lacking superstars.
Organised defence is suited to tournament football. Ask Santos, Deschamps, Del Bosque and Lippi for that.
Southgate knows that, it’s just seeing if we can execute in the knockout stages now.
stay_up_skyblues
Well-Known Member
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
As your username is from a streets song I should also remind you of the song on the same album where he admits to knowing fuck al about betting on football.
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Deleted member 11652
Guest
i really don’t understand what Germany have to do with it? Croatia topped Argentina’s group and they beat us too? We didn’t beat anyone good.
A successful tournament is one you win. We were a poor side who were only able to beat Tunisia, Panama and Sweden and needed Pens to beat a poor Columbia team. That wasn’t a success.
We’ve been handed another kind draw this time as well and if we don’t make the final it will have been a disaster.
LastGarrison
Well-Known Member
Dry Your Eyes mate
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Objectively, Croatia had a better team than us going into that team.
You’ve got players like Young, Lingard and Alli in the starting lineup who didn’t even make the 26 man squad this year. 12 players in that 23 man squad didn’t make it into the 26 man squad for this tournament, of those 12 players, only Lingard made it into the 33 man provisional squad. I haven’t included Pope and Trent-Arnold because they would’ve been in the squad.
Going into the tournament, quarter finals would have been seen as a success because it was probably our weakest squad in my time of supporting England.
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Deleted member 11652
Guest
If we don’t win the tournament it isn’t a success I’m sorry. If we think otherwise we’re sounding like Scotland and Wales
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
That’s such a dumb way of looking at things. By your metric, the World Cup in 2014 was no different to 2018 had we made it to the final.
If we had the best team in 2018, you’d have a point. But, no one going into that tournament thought we had a realistic chance of winning the tournament.
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
I don't think we are moaning , we recognise that we got to a semi final .
When you break it down , we absolutely should have gotten there ..that's the point.
We lost to Belgium twice and a Croatia which we should have beaten .
When you compare it to Frances route to the final ,they beat every major nation they played after the groups
Argentina , Croatia, Belgium, Uruguay(top 10 at the time)
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Evo1883
Well-Known Member
I think we also have to look at how it's Been since we lost to Holland In the semi of the nations league .
We've gone out of the nations league group stage
Lost to teams like Czech Republic and Denmark (took 4 points off us ) drew with Switzerland , struggled against bloody Kosovo , drew with Scotland.
Have gone what I regard as being ultra passive and negative over the last 12 to 18 minths and seem to be scraping results apart from against absolute Minnows .
Despite in many peoples own words having a better squad than 2018 , we appear appear have gone backwards
We've gone out of the nations league group stage
Lost to teams like Czech Republic and Denmark (took 4 points off us ) drew with Switzerland , struggled against bloody Kosovo , drew with Scotland.
Have gone what I regard as being ultra passive and negative over the last 12 to 18 minths and seem to be scraping results apart from against absolute Minnows .
Despite in many peoples own words having a better squad than 2018 , we appear appear have gone backwards
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Yep. According to the rankings etc we over-performed. But due to other 'big' nations falling early on and the luck of the draw we had a much easier route to get there than you'd expect in such a tournament and games that we should have won.
It feels similar this time with an easy-ish group and not the most difficult route in the KO stages. Germany are a good team but look beatable and of the potential opponents in later rounds all of them bar maybe Holland we should be considered favourites, and even that game we shouldn't be looked upon as underdogs, just an even match-up.
It feels like once again we've lucked out in terms of opponents and the thing that is most likely to cost us is us not making the most of what we've got by massively restricting our good attacking options to make up for potential defensive frailties. No way with the opposition faced and attacking options in the squad (never mind some of those that didn't even get in) should we be the lowest scorers out of the qualifiers for the KO stage.
Maybe it will work but my feeling is if we come up against a team that is creative and has attacking intent our defensive style of play will bite us on the arse.
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
If we got to the final of this euros it would be more impressive than 2018 based on the fact we'd have beaten most likely Germany Sweden and Holland to get there .
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Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
There is a warm glow in this somewhere where Liquid Gold has listened to 'Empty Cans'.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Why the comparison with France? In 2018, their team was miles ahead of us.
As for the Belgium games, look at the team sheets, we did not a play a full strength side. Again, Belgium in 2018 were a world class side and stronger then than they are now.
As for Croatia, we should have seen the game out. But, they had a great midfield, a solid defence and a good striker in Mandzukic. We lost the midfield battle.
That same Croatia team battered Argentina 3-0. Yet, somehow, we were supposed to beat Croatia whilst you laud France for beating Argentina. Who only qualified for the knockout stages with a late goal v Nigeria.
We have spurned opportunities under countless managers. We had an easy group and easy run in 2010, yet we absolutely bottled it.
With Southgate, he just seems to get international management better than past managers we’ve had.
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
I completely disagree with you on Southgate...completely
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
What would it take for you to change your mind?
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
Not sure really , obvious answer is to win a tournament .
Less obvious more realistic answer to get an England side playing aggressive exciting attractive football ..
I've never been a fan , I'd be delighted for example if I was watching Italy as an Italian right now .
COV
Well-Known Member
I agree with this.
Any other line of work: “you’ve done ok- not amazing but pretty good, however you haven’t won everyone over yet. There’s a huge task for you coming up and it will really tell everyone whether you’ve genuinely got what it takes. Tell you what we’ll do, before then though we’ll give you a payrise and improved contract”
Ain’t gonna happen is it
COV
Well-Known Member
Until 2018 I don’t think we’d beaten them in years
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
If we beat Germany and got to the sem-final, most reasonable people would have to admit Southgate has done a good job.
Italy a good outfit and really impressed in the group stages. However, the stand out performers in the group tend to go on to win it all.
With Italy, they are a team who historically, are very difficult to beat and their defence gets them deep into major tournaments despite unspectacular performances. In 2006, they conceded 2 goals all tournament.
In knockout football, more often than not, the teams who are solid at the back and do not concede go on to win the tournament.
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
I'm not going to say a semi final is bad , it's not. 2018 it was expected really with the run was basically the point .
You know in sport some people you rate some you don't, we don't all think the same and I think there are many many people who hold a similar view on Southgate.. it's just the way it is .
I'm also not saying Italy will win it , they just play good stuff
COV
Well-Known Member
Until 2018 I don’t think we’d beaten them in years