European championships 2020 thread (29 Viewers)

[COV]

Has Grealish ever taken a penalty in a professional first-team game?

Tbf apparently Saka never had either

 

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[Deleted member 4439]

Oh yeah agreed on that 100%. There’s no getting around the fact that Rashford and Sancho’s penalties were really poor but to start coming out with that stuff is just bewildering, not sure what kind of sick mind does it.

So, again, do we know how many UK accounts presented abuse? One known so far? On past form, much of it will be overseas shit stirrers who couldn't give a toss about the performance. We are suckers for self abuse.

 

[David O'Day]

I’d go with confidence every time.

Lineker v Cameroon is the best example I can offer- under that type of pressure, unless you have nerves of steel you should pick a spot and hit it hard. That way if the keeper guesses right it still goes in- like Kane’s last night. if you’re going to try and roll it in or place it with less power then you’re lessening your chances straight away as if the keeper does guess right he’s probably going to keep it out.

It is what it is- Saka looked terrified and should never, ever have been asked to take that last one for me. Rashford and Sancho should not have been thrown to the wolves either- but there you go.

Rashford is a very good penalty taker and has scored very high pressure pens before such as the one against PSG a few years back

 

[COV]

So, again, do we know how many UK accounts presented abuse? One known so far? On past form, much of it will be overseas shit stirrers who couldn't give a toss about the performance.

No idea. On Twitter a hell of a lot looked from overseas, the “home grown” ones stuck out like a sore thumb. Saw a couple of banning orders handed out and one guy was outed and got sacked (via Twitter!) within hours.

 

[COV]

Rashford is a very good penalty taker and has scored very high pressure pens before such as the one against PSG a few years back

Rashford had had a touch of the ball in all those games before being asked to take a high pressure penalty. Confidence wise I was really referring to Saka

 

[Terry Gibson's perm]

Has Grealish ever taken a penalty in a professional first-team game?

If you are picking him over Saka who last night didn’t look like he had played a first team game before it wouldn’t have mattered

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I thought Southgate got it wrong tactically and team selection tbh. He paid the price for some inepitude when the game was going away from us. Subs were far too late. As for penalties, the coach should have the balls to pick the takers and understand surely that a young Saka was not the ideal choice in such a final. Grealish, Sterling I understand wanted it but the manager stuck with the pre planned training stats. The final was not a training pitch! yeah he got it wrong last night and he will learn. but Italy unbeaten in 33 games tells you what you were up against. No disgrace for England overall, we were beaten by the better side on the night and of the tournament tbf.

Sterling's record on penalties is poor, Grealish's barely exists.

 

[Grendel]

Rashford had had a touch of the ball in all those games before being asked to take a high pressure penalty. Confidence wise I was really referring to Saka

Made no difference in terms of the sub thing that’s bollocks. You don’t get in a game for pens and I’m sure Sancho never has missed one. So those 4 were very obvious choices. Sterling is not a good penalty taker

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Sterling is not a good penalty taker

There's only really Kane and Rashford who are.

 

[cc84cov]

Sterling's record on penalties is poor, Grealish's barely exists.

Sterling scored the winning penalty in the cup final v Chelsea few seasons back

 

[CJ_covblaze]

Tbf if anyone said that about City fans not going all the time they'd be called out on here for it. Not everyone can afford every game, especially away internationals.

It’s not about going to the games. Not everyone can do games abroad. Nothing wrong with that. I meant they probably won’t even bother tuning in to watch on the tele when they seemed so desperate to watch us live yesterday.

 

[robbiekeane]

I just watched the whole game again. 90 mins extra time and pens.

On a different day we would’ve been 2-0 or 3-0 up by half time. We were all over them for the first 30 minutes and unfortunately it just didn’t quite drop for us. I also think the ref was pretty harsh on us on a few occasions, and I think there was a challenge on sterling in the box that was just as much a penalty as the Denmark challenge.

Mancini switched things up in the midfield, around 60 minutes in I think, and we struggled to respond to it. Mancini is a manager who has turned Italy around, has managed top teams in Europe and won the premier league as well as Serie A multiple times. There’s no shame in that is there really, to claim otherwise is disrespectful really. Southgate isn’t the finished article as a manager yet and that’s by his own admission also. Remember he never really sought the England job he sort of fell into it. Before that had only managed Middlesbrough I believe and then England youths.

Then for the penalties - honestly if Rashford buries his penalty then it’s game over to be honest. And he really should’ve scored.

All that to say - it genuinely could’ve went out way. I think that’s what makes it so hard to take to be honest, it would’ve been easier if they outclassed us throughout the whole game and beat us 3-0. They are a more experienced squad with a fantastic manager and haven’t been beaten in 33 games (now 34 I guess). It’s the fact that it was so close and by such fine margins.

I think Southgate is growing, I think the squad respect him and he has a very talented squad and he’s brought players through. I think he’s the right man for the job and will take us forward. I’ve never seen an England team as exciting to watch, and for that 2 minutes and 43 seconds seeing the game out against Denmark where we just oozed class…when have we ever seen anything even close to that from a team perspective for England?

It’s gutting because I am not sure we will get such a good opportunity. But maybe we can grasp a tougher one and succeed.

 

[cc84cov]

I just watched the whole game again. 90 mins extra time and pens.

On a different day we would’ve been 2-0 or 3-0 up by half time. We were all over them for the first 30 minutes and unfortunately it just didn’t quite drop for us. I also think the ref was pretty harsh on us on a few occasions, and I think there was a challenge on sterling in the box that was just as much a penalty as the Denmark challenge.

Mancini switched things up in the midfield, around 60 minutes in I think, and we struggled to respond to it. Mancini is a manager who has turned Italy around, has managed top teams in Europe and won the premier league as well as Serie A multiple times. There’s no shame in that is there really, to claim otherwise is disrespectful really. Southgate isn’t the finished article as a manager yet and that’s by his own admission also. Remember he never really sought the England job he sort of fell into it. Before that had only managed Middlesbrough I believe and then England youths.

Then for the penalties - honestly if Rashford buries his penalty then it’s game over to be honest. And he really should’ve scored.

All that to say - it genuinely could’ve went out way. I think that’s what makes it so hard to take to be honest, it would’ve been easier if they outclassed us throughout the whole game and beat us 3-0. They are a more experienced squad with a fantastic manager and haven’t been beaten in 33 games (now 34 I guess). It’s the fact that it was so close and by such fine margins.

I think Southgate is growing, I think the squad respect him and he has a very talented squad and he’s brought players through. I think he’s the right man for the job and will take us forward. I’ve never seen an England team as exciting to watch, and for that 2 minutes and 43 seconds seeing the game out against Denmark where we just oozed class…when have we ever seen anything even close to that from a team perspective for England?

It’s gutting because I am not sure we will get such a good opportunity. But maybe we can grasp a tougher one and succeed.

How I seen the pens also after their miss if he scores that we go onto win,soon as I seen it was rashford I thought YES he’s a certain to bury this...feel for the lads

 

[CJ_covblaze]

Qatar way too unrealistic. Would love to get to Germany ‘24 though.

You won’t regret it. 35 quid a home game, lower tier behind the goal will help you build up caps pretty quickly. Can do that with the free membership and then do the paid one in early 2022. Should be said that if you paid to become an away member you’ll get an extra cap for renewing after Qatar and the home tickets drop to 20 quid from the start. 5 home games and then you start to save money in theory.

 

[COV]

I just watched the whole game again. 90 mins extra time and pens.

On a different day we would’ve been 2-0 or 3-0 up by half time. We were all over them for the first 30 minutes and unfortunately it just didn’t quite drop for us. I also think the ref was pretty harsh on us on a few occasions, and I think there was a challenge on sterling in the box that was just as much a penalty as the Denmark challenge.

Mancini switched things up in the midfield, around 60 minutes in I think, and we struggled to respond to it. Mancini is a manager who has turned Italy around, has managed top teams in Europe and won the premier league as well as Serie A multiple times. There’s no shame in that is there really, to claim otherwise is disrespectful really. Southgate isn’t the finished article as a manager yet and that’s by his own admission also. Remember he never really sought the England job he sort of fell into it. Before that had only managed Middlesbrough I believe and then England youths.

Then for the penalties - honestly if Rashford buries his penalty then it’s game over to be honest. And he really should’ve scored.

All that to say - it genuinely could’ve went out way. I think that’s what makes it so hard to take to be honest, it would’ve been easier if they outclassed us throughout the whole game and beat us 3-0. They are a more experienced squad with a fantastic manager and haven’t been beaten in 33 games (now 34 I guess). It’s the fact that it was so close and by such fine margins.

I think Southgate is growing, I think the squad respect him and he has a very talented squad and he’s brought players through. I think he’s the right man for the job and will take us forward. I’ve never seen an England team as exciting to watch, and for that 2 minutes and 43 seconds seeing the game out against Denmark where we just oozed class…when have we ever seen anything even close to that from a team perspective for England?

It’s gutting because I am not sure we will get such a good opportunity. But maybe we can grasp a tougher one and succeed.

This is just a list of ifs, buts, what-ifs and maybes.

We failed, and nothing will ever change unless we see it for what it is.

 

[robbiekeane]

This is just a list of ifs, buts, what-ifs and maybes.

We failed, and nothing will ever change unless we see it for what it is.

Do you think every defeat is the same? Would you view last nights defeat they same as the defeat to Iceland In 2016?

 

[COV]

Do you think every defeat is the same? Would you view last nights defeat they same as the defeat to Iceland In 2016?

What a stupid thing to say.

Too many people happy enough wallowing in gallant failure and happy enough to lose even when we clearly should win. It’s a big problem, I don’t think any serious contender nation would be as happy to congratulate themselves for majorly blowing it as we are. The place is awash with people saying how “proud” they are- proud of what? We absolutely failed to do what was there for the taking. We’re happy to lose, there is some weird thing in too many peoples psyche where they seem to revel in failure.

If you’re not angry about how that match was thrown down the toilet as opposed to making excuses, well then it just goes to show a loser mentality

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

I thought Southgate got it wrong tactically and team selection tbh. He paid the price for some inepitude when the game was going away from us. Subs were far too late. As for penalties, the coach should have the balls to pick the takers and understand surely that a young Saka was not the ideal choice in such a final. Grealish, Sterling I understand wanted it but the manager stuck with the pre planned training stats. The final was not a training pitch! yeah he got it wrong last night and he will learn. but Italy unbeaten in 33 games tells you what you were up against. No disgrace for England overall, we were beaten by the better side on the night and of the tournament tbf.

Sterling has missed more penalties than he’s scored and Grealish isn’t a penalty take for Villa.

Sancho hasn’t missed and Rashford has scored 13 of 15 penalties (not sure if that includes last night). Saka was a surprise choice, especially for the 5th and final penalty. But, if he’s scoring them in training it’s not a stretch to put him as a penalty taker.

If Rashford scored his penalty, we win that shootout.

The reality is, the team who shoots first in a penalty shootout will win it around 60% of the time. 92% chance of scoring a penalty to win a penalty shootout versus 62% chance of scoring a penalty to avoid defeat.

The need to introduce a new ordering for penalty shootouts from XYXY to XYYX.

 

[robbiekeane]

What a stupid thing to say.

Go fuck yourself

 

[SBAndy]

Sterling has missed more penalties than he’s scored and Grealish isn’t a penalty take for Villa.

Sancho hasn’t missed and Rashford has scored 13 of 15 penalties (not sure if that includes last night). Saka was a surprise choice, especially for the 5th and final penalty. But, if he’s scoring them in training it’s not a stretch to put him as a penalty taker.

If Rashford scored his penalty, we win that shootout.

The reality is, the team who shoots first in a penalty shootout will win it around 60% of the time. 92% chance of scoring a penalty to win a penalty shootout versus 62% chance of scoring a penalty to avoid defeat.

The need to introduce a new ordering for penalty shootouts from XYXY to XYYX.

If I’m not mistaken, the team who:

- take the first penalty
- miss first
- are the away team (technically they were)

have a statistical advantage of winning a shootout. Just so happened that Italy ticked all of the boxes.

Might be a bit of a stretch but I think Kane going first was wrong. First penalty is arguably the least pressurised of the lot.

 

[Sick Boy]

If I’m not mistaken, the team who:

- take the first penalty
- miss first
- are the away team (technically they were)

have a statistical advantage of winning a shootout. Just so happened that Italy ticked all of the boxes.

Might be a bit of a stretch but I think Kane going first was wrong. First penalty is arguably the least pressurised of the lot.

I’ve always thought the 3rd is the most crucial.

 

[SBAndy]

I’ve always thought the 3rd is the most crucial.

Agree. It’s the first potential decider. I’ve no doubt that it was a ‘lead from the front’ type decision but I’d actually put your weakest taker of the 5 first.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Agree. It’s the first potential decider. I’ve no doubt that it was a ‘lead from the front’ type decision but I’d actually put your weakest taker of the 5 first.

If they miss though, pressure's right on. Rashford (accomplished penalty taker) scores his, and chances are we don't even need to take our 5th.

 

[Torquay Sky Blue]

Agree. It’s the first potential decider. I’ve no doubt that it was a ‘lead from the front’ type decision but I’d actually put your weakest taker of the 5 first.

Never understood why Ronaldo goes 5 . Last time they were in a shootout he didn't get the chance to take one

 

[cc84cov]

I’ve always thought the 3rd is the most crucial.

The most important is the one after the other team misses theirs,if rashford scores I think we go on to win but it’s not a blame game it’s a kick at goal from 12 yards I’m still in shock he misses as he’s such a good pen taker,once they missed and I see him walking up I was thinking we’ve got this...just wasn’t our day we will come again

 

[MusicDating]

What a stupid thing to say.

Too many people happy enough wallowing in gallant failure and happy enough to lose even when we clearly should win. It’s a big problem, I don’t think any serious contender nation would be as happy to congratulate themselves for majorly blowing it as we are. The place is awash with people saying how “proud” they are- proud of what? We absolutely failed to do what was there for the taking. We’re happy to lose, there is some weird thing in too many peoples psyche where they seem to revel in failure.

If you’re not angry about how that match was thrown down the toilet as opposed to making excuses, well then it just goes to show a loser mentality

England the country – not the football team – needs to take a look at itself | Barney Ronay

The racism, violence and abuse are problems the sport can police, but only wider political and societal forces can solve

www.theguardian.com

'...England went unbeaten through the tournament with two central midfielders who have never played a Uefa club game. They got past Croatia, the Czech Republic, Germany and Denmark, also known as four-time world champs, the World Cup finalists and two previous winners of this tournament (one as Czechoslovakia). It is only unearned English arrogance that suggests these are unworthy opponents for a nation that hasn’t actually ever won this competition.

At the end of which it really does seem that this is the impossible job, that there are some who believe Southgate has simply been lucky, or has done a bad job as England manager.

This conclusion requires a degree of cognitive dissonance. Under Southgate England have reached two semi-finals in two attempts. Pre-Southgate England had reached three semi-finals in 70 years. Pre-Southgate they lost to Iceland, and were so bad at Euro 2012 it was hard to watch without developing a migraine and feelings of nausea. The manager can’t claim all the credit for this improvement. But he is a big part of the solution.'

It's not gallant failure to achieve something you've not done for 55 years, it's progress. The team is more comfortable on the ball and in the shirt than I've ever seen (since '86), so yer I am proud. Southgate's still learning international coaching and has made mistakes but I'm sorry it does come across as English arrogance to belittle the teams we did beat and assume we should have stuffed a team unbeaten in 33 games.

Anywho, it's done and now all about City...ST for me and my boy in hand (well not delivered yet!), can't wait for the Forest game

 

[cc84cov]

The fact Southgate didn’t get the subs on early and give them extra time cost us just give them 20-25 mins at least ffs

 

[COV]

England the country – not the football team – needs to take a look at itself | Barney Ronay

The racism, violence and abuse are problems the sport can police, but only wider political and societal forces can solve

www.theguardian.com

'...England went unbeaten through the tournament with two central midfielders who have never played a Uefa club game. They got past Croatia, the Czech Republic, Germany and Denmark, also known as four-time world champs, the World Cup finalists and two previous winners of this tournament (one as Czechoslovakia). It is only unearned English arrogance that suggests these are unworthy opponents for a nation that hasn’t actually ever won this competition.

At the end of which it really does seem that this is the impossible job, that there are some who believe Southgate has simply been lucky, or has done a bad job as England manager.

This conclusion requires a degree of cognitive dissonance. Under Southgate England have reached two semi-finals in two attempts. Pre-Southgate England had reached three semi-finals in 70 years. Pre-Southgate they lost to Iceland, and were so bad at Euro 2012 it was hard to watch without developing a migraine and feelings of nausea. The manager can’t claim all the credit for this improvement. But he is a big part of the solution.'

It's not gallant failure to achieve something you've not done for 55 years, it's progress. The team is more comfortable on the ball and in the shirt than I've ever seen (since '86), so yer I am proud. Southgate's still learning international coaching and has made mistakes but I'm sorry it does come across as English arrogance to belittle the teams we did beat and assume we should have stuffed a team unbeaten in 33 games.

Anywho, it's done and now all about City...ST for me and my boy in hand (well not delivered yet!), can't wait for the Forest game

When you had the tools at your disposal to win and lost because of your own mistakes and mentality, that’s failure. I’m not saying Southgate was lucky or did a bad job, I’m saying we threw the final away. Big difference.

Your post is just more of the losers mentality that is endemic.

If you want to to talk about the rest of it then those players are heroes. They are embarrassing people like Patel, Johnson and they are doing more for equality than all politicians put together. There’s a reason they kept saying “keep politics out of football”, what they meant was “keep the footballers away from politics” because they were scared of how they’d be made to look, and rightly so.

In April the government released a report denying that institutional racism existed, now they’re falling over themselves to denounce obvious blatant racism.

On the pitch a good tournament but threw the final away, failure where it mattered most. Off the pitch we should all be massively, immensely proud of them as human beings, they are a credit to all of us.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The fact Southgate didn’t get the subs on early and give them extra time cost us just give them 20-25 mins at least ffs

You'll still be quietly muttering this to yourself at Euro '76

 

[COV]

You'll still be quietly muttering this to yourself at Euro '76

To be fair though, that final will be looked back on in years to come as ‘the one we threw away’

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

To be fair though, that final will be looked back on in years to come as ‘the one we threw away’

It wasn’t a dig

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Sterling has missed more penalties than he’s scored and Grealish isn’t a penalty take for Villa.

Sancho hasn’t missed and Rashford has scored 13 of 15 penalties (not sure if that includes last night). Saka was a surprise choice, especially for the 5th and final penalty. But, if he’s scoring them in training it’s not a stretch to put him as a penalty taker.

If Rashford scored his penalty, we win that shootout.

The reality is, the team who shoots first in a penalty shootout will win it around 60% of the time. 92% chance of scoring a penalty to win a penalty shootout versus 62% chance of scoring a penalty to avoid defeat.

The need to introduce a new ordering for penalty shootouts from XYXY to XYYX.

I liked the ABBA system and felt it levelled out the pressure well. Not ideal but better than ABAB in my opinion. For some reason people didn't seem to like it though and it got dropped.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

If I’m not mistaken, the team who:

- take the first penalty
- miss first
- are the away team (technically they were)

have a statistical advantage of winning a shootout. Just so happened that Italy ticked all of the boxes.

Might be a bit of a stretch but I think Kane going first was wrong. First penalty is arguably the least pressurised of the lot.

Be surprised if the team that miss first are more likely to win a shootout. Purely because they're already at a disadvantage. Away team I think I could get as the nervousness and tension in the stands when the home team take a penalty may be harder to deal with than hostility towards an away taker.

You may be right about first being the least pressured as you've got the most time to get back into it BUT if you miss it increases the pressure on subsequent ones and the keeper to make a save massively. I'd prefer your best penalty taker taking the first to hopefully get off to a good start. No point having your best one go 5th if you don't even get there. But I wouldn't want to leave the last one to the weakest as if it gets that far it's got huge pressure on it.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Never understood why Ronaldo goes 5 . Last time they were in a shootout he didn't get the chance to take one

His ego. He wants the adulation as scoring the winner.

 

[Deleted member 4439]

Never understood why Ronaldo goes 5 . Last time they were in a shootout he didn't get the chance to take one

Either gets the glory or else ducks the blame. Win-win.