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Briles

Briles

Well-Known Member
COV said:
We'd best get shot of Jodi Jones pronto then hadn't we, how many games has he played at this level?

Its a strange argument and I'm kind of at a loss as to why its so hard to understand.

Some players have a great deal of natural ability which managers spot & which they show on the training pitch, but which for whatever reason they cannot or will not produce on any consistent basis on the pitch. Example= Bright so far, Eoin Jess was another according to Strachan.
Some players are not blessed with a great deal of ability but they work hard, improve themselves and achieve consistency. Example= we've had loads in this category- Lloyd McGrath immediately springs to mind, Liam Kelly more recently.
Some players have a great deal of natural ability and they work hard- as Evo correctly says these are the top level players, your Ronaldos.

Unless we're saying that Robins & others have got it completely wrong and don't know natural ability when they see it, Bright is very talented. Nobody knows if he will ever deliver on a consistent basis, but I'd say he's at the last chance saloon with us, which is probably a good thing for us.
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I said it last season with the 1 up front, if ronaldo was our number 9 he would've still struggled because of how we played. All the ability in the world but if they don't fit the system its irrelevant
 
COV

COV

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Jones has shown talent further down the pyramid, he may or may not at this level. All I’m saying is people have judged a player to be the most talented at the club based on a loan spell in L1 a few years ago and since he’s if anything gone backwards. To me that doesn’t back up the assertion.

You’re right it’s his last chance though and if that doesn’t get him to perform he never will
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Once again- mistaking "delivery on the pitch" for "natural talent". They are very different things. You don't lose talent, you lose fitness, interest, attitude, pace over time- all manner of things- but natural ability doesn't go.

Bright's biggest strength is himself, but his biggest weakness is also himself, which is why nobody would take a chance on him.

As for Jones, he has shown precisely nothing at this level, in fact a lot less than Bright has.

I don't think Bright will be here beyond next Jan, I'm not sticking up for him at all, just saying that he has an abundance of god-given football ability but he's managed to totally derail his career by stupidity, and how its time to put up or shut up & join the list of players who had all the tools, but also had a screw loose meaning they never achieved anything like what they could have done.
 
COV

COV

Well-Known Member
Tommo1993 said:
Seriously people, chill.
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oh all chilled, I like the chats about this stuff

I am worried about Bright, just have a feeling he's going to f**k up again and its a waste. If you think how few people are born with really good ability & talent, its such a waste to throw it all away by not being switched on.

Our strikers looked pretty decent today, I'm not even sure you'd disrupt that by throwing a "wild card" in.
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
COV said:
We'd best get shot of Jodi Jones pronto then hadn't we, how many games has he played at this level?

Its a strange argument and I'm kind of at a loss as to why its so hard to understand.

Some players have a great deal of natural ability which managers spot & which they show on the training pitch, but which for whatever reason they cannot or will not produce on any consistent basis on the pitch. Example= Bright so far, Eoin Jess was another according to Strachan.
Some players are not blessed with a great deal of ability but they work hard, improve themselves and achieve consistency. Example= we've had loads in this category- Lloyd McGrath immediately springs to mind, Liam Kelly more recently.
Some players have a great deal of natural ability and they work hard- as Evo correctly says these are the top level players, your Ronaldos.

Unless we're saying that Robins & others have got it completely wrong and don't know natural ability when they see it, Bright is very talented. Nobody knows if he will ever deliver on a consistent basis, but I'd say he's at the last chance saloon with us, which is probably a good thing for us.
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Can't agree with you here mate.
Jones has shown incredible fortitude to come back from his injuries, will he be able to compete at Championship level- we'll see, but not comparable with Brights lack of application and attitude.
Hopefully he's grown up and makes a fist of it here, we'll see.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
COV said:
Once again- mistaking "delivery on the pitch" for "natural talent". They are very different things. You don't lose talent, you lose fitness, interest, attitude, pace over time- all manner of things- but natural ability doesn't go.

Bright's biggest strength is himself, but his biggest weakness is also himself, which is why nobody would take a chance on him.

As for Jones, he has shown precisely nothing at this level, in fact a lot less than Bright has.

I don't think Bright will be here beyond next Jan, I'm not sticking up for him at all, just saying that he has an abundance of god-given football ability but he's managed to totally derail his career by stupidity, and how its time to put up or shut up & join the list of players who had all the tools, but also had a screw loose meaning they never achieved anything like what they could have done.
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One question-how do you know he has the ability in the first place?
 
COV

COV

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
Can't agree with you here mate.
Jones has shown incredible fortitude to come back from his injuries, will he be able to compete at Championship level- we'll see, but not comparable with Brights lack of application and attitude.
Hopefully he's grown up and makes a fist of it here, we'll see.
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I actually think Jones will do really well, I wasn't trying to run him down at all.

I also want to know what he's been eating, he looks about 2 stone heavier but very solid
 
COV

COV

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
One question-how do you know he has the ability in the first place?
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I get the point, you don't rate him, and I'm not convinced at all he'll do the business, but he's got all the tools if he just decides to tune in. If he doesn't then I think thats it for him.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
COV said:
I get the point, you don't rate him, and I'm not convinced at all he'll do the business, but he's got all the tools if he just decides to tune in. If he doesn't then I think thats it for him.
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It's not that I don't see a player in there, it's just how do you decide a player is supremely talented if not by what he does on the field?

COV said:
I think Jones will be a revelation next season

Blind hope & optimism perhaps, but nothing wrong with that before the season starts :)
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He deserves it to be for showing that much resilience. It was a bit hard to watch today hoping he wouldn't go down in a heap
 
COV

COV

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
It's not that I don't see a player in there, it's just how do you decide a player is supremely talented if not by what he does on the field?



He deserves it to be for showing that much resilience. It was a bit hard to watch today hoping he wouldn't go down in a heap
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I was nervous every time he touched it.
 
SlowerThanPlatt

SlowerThanPlatt

Well-Known Member
He only scored 2 and created 3 last season, shows how huge the gap is from players like ours and a decent Premier League player
 
blunted

blunted

Well-Known Member
Amazing the number of people that were calling for Bright to come on as a sub to change the game, then the number that say he lacks talent due to his character and application. With Bright, I maintain he will either be brilliant or a waste of space for us. He previous record does not bode well, but until we know why he missed the bench idle speculation does not help.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
blunted said:
Amazing the number of people that were calling for Bright to come on as a sub to change the game, then the number that say he lacks talent due to his character and application. With Bright, I maintain he will either be brilliant or a waste of space for us. He previous record does not bode well, but until we know why he missed the bench idle speculation does not help.
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To be fair they weren't the same people! A game of opinions and why we can't stay away I guess
 
skybluegod

skybluegod

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
I guess I meant 'how do you know a player is talented', and it'll be by what he does on the pitch and probably not just in one or two games.
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Not really? There are countless players throughout history who have had more talent than their careers suggest but haven't had the attitude to succeed. As somebody who has studied sports science, we constantly talk and debate the idea of talent Vs skill. Most people accept talent is as I defined it? That can be shown in training, it can shown in small moments on a pitch, it can be shown at youth level. It's having the skills to complement talent that ultimately translate to a successful career at the highest level.

Ravel Morrison who a number of incredibly successful managers and players have said was one of the most talented players they have seen, and yet his career is pretty abysmal match wise.

Anyone who denies Bright can things that most if not all of our other players can do is being pretty blinkered if you ask me. That doesn't make him our most talented player, but he is somebody who can make a difference at the sharp end of the pitch.

Btw I'm in no way Brights biggest fan, I'm not sure it's going to turn out well but I'm willing to give robins the benefit of the doubt, and support him until we can see if the gamble pays off.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Mercurial talents with little altitude for training and I think Best, Bowles and Currie

Bright isn’t even at the Peter Bodak level yet

I think he’s probably worked out he can only grow his reputation by not turning up on the pitch

At 23 he’s plying his trade in the same league adorned by Peter Ramage

What a talent
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
skybluegod said:
Not really? There are countless players throughout history who have had more talent than their careers suggest but haven't had the attitude to succeed. As somebody who has studied sports science, we constantly talk and debate the idea of talent Vs skill. Most people accept talent is as I defined it? That can be shown in training, it can shown in small moments on a pitch, it can be shown at youth level. It's having the skills to complement talent that ultimately translate to a successful career at the highest level.

Ravel Morrison who a number of incredibly successful managers and players have said was one of the most talented players they have seen, and yet his career is pretty abysmal match wise.

Anyone who denies Bright can things that most if not all of our other players can do is being pretty blinkered if you ask me. That doesn't make him our most talented player, but he is somebody who can make a difference at the sharp end of the pitch.

Btw I'm in no way Brights biggest fan, I'm not sure it's going to turn out well but I'm willing to give robins the benefit of the doubt, and support him until we can see if the gamble pays off.
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The way you'd decide he was talented would be by what he does on the pitch I presume more often than on a handful of occasions. In teaching you'll get a mix of those who can't naturally grasp a subject and also can't be arsed, those who naturally get it and also work hard, and plenty who are mix of both.

I haven't said he's doomed to not work out for us, there's a small chance he could prove a lot of people wrong. All I disputed was the idea he's the biggest talent at the club when I think there's bigger natural talents already on our books. But that's my opinion and some agree, others think differently-no big deal. He'll prove us right or wrong as and when he plays
 
P

procdoc

Well-Known Member
Hark at all of us that have never kicked a ball above dog & duck standard commenting on someone’s ability 😂
 
skybluegod

skybluegod

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
The way you'd decide he was talented would be by what he does on the pitch I presume more often than on a handful of occasions. In teaching you'll get a mix of those who can't naturally grasp a subject and also can't be arsed, those who naturally get it and also work hard, and plenty who are mix of both.

I haven't said he's doomed to not work out for us, there's a small chance he could prove a lot of people wrong. All I disputed was the idea he's the biggest talent at the club when I think there's bigger natural talents already on our books. But that's my opinion and some agree, others think differently-no big deal. He'll prove us right or wrong as and when he plays
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You do realise that it doesn't only have to be in the league though when you say on the pitch? That's what seems to be missing. On the pitch also includes the training field? Where even our manager has said he's incredibly talented?

I agree I don't think he's the biggest talent on our books. Never said otherwise. I simply stated the correct definition of talent
 
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cc84cov

cc84cov

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Briles said:
I said it last season with the 1 up front, if ronaldo was our number 9 he would've still struggled because of how we played. All the ability in the world but if they don't fit the system its irrelevant
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Kevin Kyle wouldn’t of struggled
 
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