fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
The same people who talk about how poor we are defensively also talk about what a miss Ostigard will be, and some of them used to slate McCallum
21/22 Summer transfer mega-thread (45 Viewers)
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David O'Day
Well-Known Member
Barnsley did deserve in the Hague last year
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
I think if you play with a back three and attacking wingbacks while also playing passing football then you want a left footer in at LCB.
It helps maintain the balance in a few ways, firstly the out ball for those players is often the wingback and getting that ball out to them quickly and in front of them can get us on the attack quickly, this was evidenced by Dabo and Rose linking so well in L1 and that area of the field being more effective. It's so much more difficult to play that ball with the other foot, especially when you have an attacker bearing down on you.
It also helps when you face a counter attack and the wingback is high up the pitch on your side, the other wingback or CDM should tuck in as the right back then everybody shifts across so your RCB and MCB are just CBs but your LCB becomes a left back. This isn't as much of an issue if you're playing an inverted winger but if you have a traditional winger running at the byeline they are more likely to make it past the defender and either head into the box of find a late runner.
It helps maintain the balance in a few ways, firstly the out ball for those players is often the wingback and getting that ball out to them quickly and in front of them can get us on the attack quickly, this was evidenced by Dabo and Rose linking so well in L1 and that area of the field being more effective. It's so much more difficult to play that ball with the other foot, especially when you have an attacker bearing down on you.
It also helps when you face a counter attack and the wingback is high up the pitch on your side, the other wingback or CDM should tuck in as the right back then everybody shifts across so your RCB and MCB are just CBs but your LCB becomes a left back. This isn't as much of an issue if you're playing an inverted winger but if you have a traditional winger running at the byeline they are more likely to make it past the defender and either head into the box of find a late runner.
Frostie
Well-Known Member
Didn't see many people pining for Mings over Maguire in the Euros because Mings is left footed. You pick the three best defenders, regardless of what foot they use. If one of the three is left footed - great, if not it's no big deal.
edit: that guy says exactly what I'm saying - " But I wouldn't be forcing ourselves to sign a left footer over a better right footed player because he's left footed "
edit: that guy says exactly what I'm saying - " But I wouldn't be forcing ourselves to sign a left footer over a better right footed player because he's left footed "
Ignore the various things people have pointed out. None of us are able to grasp his superior insight.
Frostie
Well-Known Member
No, agreed, but specifically in a ball playing back 3 I'd prefer a lefty if they're at least of similar quality. Maguire is pretty comfortable on his weaker side tbf & so far ahead of Mings that was a no brainer.
The only reason Mings even makes England squads in my opinion is because he's a left footer although he let nobody down in fairness.
If you read The Athletic article it explains the benefits pretty well.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
There’s an asterisk there though. IIRC his long pass was a lot worse but his short pass was better. But his short passes tended to be balls to McCallum then balls to McFadzean, not progressive passes. From memory Østigård tried more forward passes but hard to tell from the free stats.
@Frostie have you got anything on your magic apps that can shed light on Østigård vs Hyam distribution wise?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Calm your tits. Just want people to address the points I’ve actually made and not make shit up or in this case use their mystic Meg powers to predict how we’re going to play or who we’re going to sign.
Passes per game:
DH - 47.7
LO - 38.4
Pass completion %:
DH - 74.48
LO - 68.11
Long pass completion %:
DH - 36.91
LO - 39.7%
Forward passes per game:
DH - 23
LO - 22.1
So Hyam has better completion rate, and makes (very slightly) more forward passes per game, so you can't say Ostigard was more progressive. He did have a marginally higher long pass success ratio though
Your points rest on some vague prediction that the defence won’t improve or MR hasn’t thought about it. Why can you speculate but others can’t speculate how we’ll play based on the actual information of the type of players we’ve signed?
You’ve said that the only way to play further up the pitch is with the midfield and wing backs having more confidence in the defence. As many have pointed out you can also defend from the front. You’re now passing this off as a “prediction” because it’s a genuine counterpoint to your point which you’ve condescendingly been telling everyone afternoon they’ve been missing.
Maybe you’re the one who needs to calm your tits? You’ve made your point in numerous ways and others have disagreed.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
TBF I still wonder why they can't do their job for 90 minutes more than 3 times a week without falling apart.
Frostie
Well-Known Member
Cheers, saved me a job!
I would also agree neither Hyam or Østigård were progressive last season, certainly not in the way McFadzean is for example.
All of this is caveated of course by Hyam playing on his weaker side, I think he'll be much more effective in possession on the right but we shall see.
Østigård will get there in time or be binned by Brighton, simple as. They built from the back with, long passes from Dunk & White which Osti definitely doesn't have in his locker (yet).
Greggs
Well-Known Member
yeah fuck 'em, overpaid pricks
fatso
Well-Known Member
Not at the same time though surely?
steve cooper
Well-Known Member
Cheers, saved me a job!
I would also agree neither Hyam or Østigård were progressive last season, certainly not in the way McFadzean is for example.
All of this is caveated of course by Hyam playing on his weaker side, I think he'll be much more effective in possession on the right but we shall see.
Østigård will get there in time or be binned by Brighton, simple as. They built from the back with, long passes from Dunk & White which Osti definitely doesn't have in his locker (yet).
Agree. Think we will be a lot better with the ball at the back and more progressive with Rose/Dom (specifically Rose) on the right side and JCS on the left side. What we will obviously miss is Ostigard’s aerial ability
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Frostie
Well-Known Member
Fwiw, I & 1 or 2 others agree that he was a weak link for a pretty large portion of last season. I know (similar to Kelly) that's practically blasphemy due to what he's done & achieved previously but he looked out of his depth a lot of the time.
That said, I think it's unfair for us to write him off, it can't be easy for him on the left side & I'm prepared to say he did a far better job there than McFadz or Østigård would have.
Hopefully we get Clarke-Salter in & then he Rose & Fadz can fight over the other slots & hopefully he'll prove his worth again.
D
Deleted member 9744
Guest
It's a mystery to me as was this argument that Giles was better than McCallum and the view that James flattered to deceive and Sheaf was rubbish. Some players seem to be underestimated and I do feel body language seems to play a large part in it. The criticism of Walker also seemed to come from a lack of smiling.
I know in the end it comes down to personal opinions and that is subjective but for me Hyam did really well last year and was one of our better players. Sure he had a loss of form in the middle of the season but ultimately he played almost all of our matches so I guess Robins must have thought he did well.
long way home
Well-Known Member
So many unknowns to determine where this squad is to last seasons. And until we see the squad perform, all will be an open to conversation within the fan base. It's the clubs aim is to better 16th, in my opinion to hit that target few things will need to happen, which we will only know in time.
Rose, Jones & Dabo staying fit to workout if this is a level they can perform at. If they do we have improved.
We know Kelly, Gooden and Walker can play at this level but can they get fit and stay fit and be available every week. If they do we have improved.
Is Sheaf a better player than last season is a big one. If so James conversation will go away.
Will, Burroughs, Drysdale, Eccles, Bapaga, Reid, Taveres and Howley show enough to break into game day squads and make impacts that allows them to keep a place. If they do that it allows players deemed as surplus to leave, opening up the budget. That will improve the squad
Lastly Bright and Moore are the ones that could really blow up in our face or prove really good signings. Either way if some of these don't go our way the answer will be this squad hasn't improved and relegation battle will happen.
Rose, Jones & Dabo staying fit to workout if this is a level they can perform at. If they do we have improved.
We know Kelly, Gooden and Walker can play at this level but can they get fit and stay fit and be available every week. If they do we have improved.
Is Sheaf a better player than last season is a big one. If so James conversation will go away.
Will, Burroughs, Drysdale, Eccles, Bapaga, Reid, Taveres and Howley show enough to break into game day squads and make impacts that allows them to keep a place. If they do that it allows players deemed as surplus to leave, opening up the budget. That will improve the squad
Lastly Bright and Moore are the ones that could really blow up in our face or prove really good signings. Either way if some of these don't go our way the answer will be this squad hasn't improved and relegation battle will happen.
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I agree.
First 10 games or so Hyam was our best defender and one of the first names on the team sheet.
Had a wobble in the middle of the season but to be fair so did just about every player.
Finished the season very strongly (again, as did most).
Robins clearly rates him and I'd be very surprised if he doesn't play 35+ matches (if fit) again.
D
Deleted member 9744
Guest
Agree with most of that.
I suspect Sheaf will be a better player, but not sure that will totally mitigate the loss of James. For me Jones and Enobakare are the unknowns. If one of them really produces it could make up for losing James especially as we have potentially have stronger forwards.
blunted
Well-Known Member
Our recruitment so far has been pretty good. Signing Kelly and McFaz was necessary. Surprised Hyam was not given a new contract rather than just a one year option. Sheaf was coming anyway but looked good against Wolves. Especially as he apparently had a bad back problem last year. The Chelsea loans look exciting particularly if CS can regain his earlier promise as England u21 captain material. Vivash knows him well so a bonus there. I will be surprised if Moore is not an upgrade in goal. I think we proritised James and he is a big loss if he can keep his fitness. Bright and the return of Jones are hopefully the icing on the cake. Gyo seems to have got better as he has got fitter and Waghorn brings experience and some muscle up front. Godden appears to have put his injury woes behind him, just needs to get match fit. Think we were keen to improve in all areas of the pitch, but the defensive additions appear to be delayed or we missed out for whatever reasons. McCallum was one that got away and Osti I think is out of the picture as he moves onwards an upwards. The fly in the ointment appears to be the Covid situation and the fact we have had a very disjointed pre-season which has resulted in some rather poor results. Hope the same has happened to most teams and will level the playing field. Are we ready for the first few games with so much disruption? We are about to find out.
SlowerThanPlatt
Well-Known Member
Hasn’t Godden got an injury which will need constant monitoring and management? Don’t see how he’s put it behind him until he gets through a season unscathed
I thought Hyam did alright overall last season. It was clear about half way through he needed a rest but we had no other centre half fit at the time so he had to keep playing.
He had a couple of games out towards the end and look rejuvenated when he came back into the team.
Now he he has a season of championship football under his belt i bet we will see an improvement in his game.
Also having a fully fit Rose is like a new signing, people tend to forget how good he was in our promotion season, good enough to attract interest from Leeds. I think in the few games he played last season he was rusty but again towards the end he was very good.
I hope Dabo can remain fit as his relationship with Rose on the right hand side was one of the key elements towards our promotion and having that understanding in the team on a consistent basis is important.
I think we do need to add two centre halves to the mix. Clark-Salter has pedigree and experience in the championship. He is also a leader as he has been a Captain for the England U21’s. It’s a bonus he’s left footed as, although it’s not pivotal, it does add a nice balance to the team.
I think Waghorn is a massive improvement up front and we needed an experienced head up that end of the pitch as we were very naive at times, especially when it comes to the dark arts of winning cheap free kicks etc
He had a couple of games out towards the end and look rejuvenated when he came back into the team.
Now he he has a season of championship football under his belt i bet we will see an improvement in his game.
Also having a fully fit Rose is like a new signing, people tend to forget how good he was in our promotion season, good enough to attract interest from Leeds. I think in the few games he played last season he was rusty but again towards the end he was very good.
I hope Dabo can remain fit as his relationship with Rose on the right hand side was one of the key elements towards our promotion and having that understanding in the team on a consistent basis is important.
I think we do need to add two centre halves to the mix. Clark-Salter has pedigree and experience in the championship. He is also a leader as he has been a Captain for the England U21’s. It’s a bonus he’s left footed as, although it’s not pivotal, it does add a nice balance to the team.
I think Waghorn is a massive improvement up front and we needed an experienced head up that end of the pitch as we were very naive at times, especially when it comes to the dark arts of winning cheap free kicks etc
SlowerThanPlatt
Well-Known Member
The interest from Leeds wasn’t genuine, with respect to Rose they’re shopping for a totally different level of player
They are now yes but there was still a link in the press so to me they were still taking a look even it weren’t serious interest
SlowerThanPlatt
Well-Known Member
It wasn’t from a credible source the same one which claimed Leeds wanted Westbrooke, that summer they signed at centre back a Spanish international and German international
Fair enough. The rest of my points still stand though
SlowerThanPlatt
Well-Known Member
Today’s announcement is… Barnsley tickets
But we have to wait for the big reveal...of the tickets