Brexit Benefits (9 Viewers)

[Grendel]

It's what happens now, stop getting whipped up by the media so easily.

That’s odd the last time I looked Norfolk wasn’t a benefit free zone

 

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[skybluetony176]

That’s odd the last time I looked Norfolk wasn’t a benefit free zone

The turkey industry needs skilled workers to slaughter and butcher turkeys. For an apparent animal lover you’re also steam rollering the fact that not a lot of people don’t want to work in an industry where they kill and butcher animals. Even amongst the people who consume the end product.

 

[Nick]

The turkey industry needs skilled workers to slaughter and butcher turkeys. For an apparent animal lover you’re also steam rollering the fact that not a lot of people don’t want to work in an industry where they kill and butcher animals. Even amongst the people who consume the end product.

"don't want to"

 

[skybluetony176]

"don't want to"

Struggling?

 

[Grendel]

I’m amazed there are so many vegans in Norfolk who are claiming benefits. I’m also staggered there are so many people with fruit allergies claiming benefits in Lincoln

 

[Nick]

Struggling?

Not at all.

I just pointed out that it's now gone to "people don't want to do it".

 

[Grendel]

Not at all.

I just pointed out that it's now gone to "people don't want to do it".

It’s funny as it’s classic freedom of movement argument - let dirty Eastern European’s do a job here no one wants - keep conditions shit, keep wages to a minimum then I can fill my face with cheap meat at Christmas

 

[skybluetony176]

I’m amazed there are so many vegans in Norfolk who are claiming benefits. I’m also staggered there are so many people with fruit allergies claiming benefits in Lincoln

2 things.

What’s being vegan got to with it? Plenty of meat eaters wouldn’t entertain killing the animals they eat.

Secondly, you’re also deliberately missing the main point. Are you seriously suggesting that everyone in Norfolk currently unemployed has the necessary qualifications and skills to slaughter and butcher animals?

 

[wingy]

It’s massively bigger than elsewhere and the fact is that the one part of the UK we left in the single market (Northern Ireland) isn’t having the same issues the rest of the UK is having.

Even the backlog at the DVLA has been exacerbated by the Tories, they defunded the DVLA, they closed 32 DVLA offices. Non of that helped and this was an issue long before Covid and long before brexit and like brexit that was a political choice.

Clearly Boris:s (ERM) BREXIT is different to Theresa May's Brexit and exacerbating events.
This is his baby
No wonder he's hiding.

 

[Grendel]

Jesus wept I’m out to get a level 3 in how to kill animals - I’m sure there’s a very long training course - actually I’m off do to a Masters in fruit picking instead

 

[skybluetony176]

Not at all.

I just pointed out that it's now gone to "people don't want to do it".

So that’s all you took from that post. Sounds like you’re selectively reading to pick an argument. What about the required skills I mention. Unless you’re also going down the route of all unemployed people in Norfolk posses the required skills and qualifications to slaughter and butcher animals.

 

[skybluetony176]

Jesus well I’m out

You were never in. ill thought out lazy tropes is all you have.

 

[Grendel]

You were never in. ill thought out lazy tropes is all you have.

I’m amazed how quick you responded I edit it in two seconds - incredible

 

[Nick]

So that’s all you took from that post. Sounds like you’re selectively reading to pick an argument. What about the required skills I mention. Unless you’re also going down the route of all unemployed people in Norfolk posses the required skills and qualifications to slaughter and butcher animals.

Funnily enough the person I know that does recruitment sends people into slaughterhouses (or tries to). A lot of the work in them is unskilled. Obviously some of the more "hands on" jobs you need an NVQ or 2.

So people can (or could) come over from the EU and get qualified or trained but people round the corner can't?

A massive part of it is that people just don't want to.

 

[skybluetony176]

I’m amazed how quick you responded I edit it in two seconds - incredible

You still said it though. And that led onto your second lazy trope. You don’t have to be unemployed to claim benefits. IIRC about 30% of people claiming benefits are in work.

 

[skybluetony176]

Funnily enough the person I know that does recruitment sends people into slaughterhouses (or tries to). A lot of the work in them is unskilled. Obviously some of the more "hands on" jobs you need an NVQ or 2.

So people can (or could) come over from the EU and get qualified or trained but people round the corner can't?

A massive part of it is that people just don't want to.

There’s a massive skills shortage in the meat industry. Even before the B word but the B word has exacerbated it. It’s a skill and a qualification to be a slaughterman or butcher. People don’t want to do it and who can blame them, slaughterhouse workers suffer from the very real problem of PTSD from the work they do, the industry has high rates of drug and alcohol abuse, high levels of domestic violence. It’s a shitty job that people don’t want to do and that’s the reality of it. Butchering the same. The only unskilled work in the sector is packing.

It’s also a really shitty quality to assume that people who won’t do the work you wouldn’t entertain should just because they’re unemployed.

 

[skybluetony176]

Jesus wept I’m out to get a level 3 in how to kill animals - I’m sure there’s a very long training course - actually I’m off do to a Masters in fruit picking instead

You do know that you have to be personally licensed to slaughter animals? You can’t just walk in of the street with a machete and get a job. Butchering is a full apprenticeship.

 

[Nick]

It’s also a really shitty quality to assume that people who won’t do the work you wouldn’t entertain should just because they’re unemployed.

How do you know what I would and wouldn't entertain though?

If I have bills to pay and responsibilities and no other options then I would.

 

[skybluetony176]

How do you know what I would and wouldn't entertain though?

If I have bills to pay and responsibilities and no other options then I would.

Actually you wouldn’t. There’s a gazillion jobs you could do before you have to entertain qualifying to do a job that’s going to give you mental health issues. You’re exaggerating.

 

[David O'Day]

2 things.

What’s being vegan got to with it? Plenty of meat eaters wouldn’t entertain killing the animals they eat.

Secondly, you’re also deliberately missing the main point. Are you seriously suggesting that everyone in Norfolk currently unemployed has the necessary qualifications and skills to slaughter and butcher animals?

Yeah I eat meat but could bring myself to actually kill the animal myself

 

[Nick]

You do know that you have to be personally licensed to slaughter animals? You can’t just walk in of the street with a machete and get a job. Butchering is a full apprenticeship.

Do they teach people from the EU butchering as standard at high school then?

What is it? Is it Brexit or is it that people just don't want to do those jobs?

If it's Brexit, how do all of the people from the EU get trained, licensed to come and butcher in the UK?

 

[Nick]

Actually you wouldn’t. There’s a gazillion jobs you could do before you have to entertain qualifying to do a job that’s going to give you mental health issues. You’re exaggerating.

There probably is, you are right. I'd be choosing to do other things.

If it was working in an abattoir or not work at all I'd choose the work.

 

[skybluetony176]

There probably is, you are right. I'd be choosing to do other things.

If it was working in an abattoir or not work at all I'd choose the work.

Which is a choice literally no one in the country faces so it’s nonsense.

 

[Nick]

Which is a choice literally no one in the country faces so it’s nonsense.

So it's not down to Brexit that the Turkey Man can't hire 16 people then? It's that people don't want to do it?

 

[skybluetony176]

Do they teach people from the EU butchering as standard at high school then?

What is it? Is it Brexit or is it that people just don't want to do those jobs?

If it's Brexit, how do all of the people from the EU get trained, licensed to come and butcher in the UK?

You do understand that the issues can be more than one.

You do understand that EU membership contained things like minimum standards and recognition of skills across the block. Even then because of freedom of movement it doesn’t mean that someone had to arrive as a licensed slaughter man/woman. It was possible to come here and start by working on the packing line and then license to work in the slaughter house if you should wish.

Not everyone training to be a HGV driver in the UK pre brexit was a UK citizen. EU driving licenses are valid all over the EU, many people were arriving here with a car license and then training to be a HGV driver here.

 

[skybluetony176]

So it's not down to Brexit that the Turkey Man can't hire 16 people then? It's that people don't want to do it?

Pre brexit the meat processing industry had a skills shortage of about 10%, post brexit it’s 15%. Like I said brexit exacerbated it.

 

[Skybluefaz]

@Nick fucking loves a Brexit thread. I.D.S.T

 

[Nick]

It was possible to come here and start by working on the packing line and then license to work in the slaughter house if you should wish.

Which is my point.

There is no reason why locals can't do that, as you say though they don't want to.

 

[skybluetony176]

 

[Nick]

@Nick fucking loves a Brexit thread. I.D.S.T

I am glad I voted leave to be fair.

 

[Nick]

@Nick fucking loves a Brexit thread. I.D.S.T

I'm glad I voted remain.

 

[skybluetony176]

Which is my point.

There is no reason why locals can't do that, as you say though they don't want to.

Which is there choice. You have no right to dictate that someone should train to do a job that A) you wouldn’t and B) will most likely give you PTSD just because they’re unemployed.

 

[PVA]

The drop in UK drivers is far, far bigger than EU drivers after Brexit.

I'm pretty sure while everybody is just shouting Brexit it detracts from how it can actually be resolved.

 

[Nick]

Which is there choice. You have no right to dictate that someone should train to do a job that A) you wouldn’t and B) will most likely give you PTSD just because they’re unemployed.

Of course it isn't saying everybody has to go and kill animals or lose their benefits. It isn't specific to that one exact job.

However, if nobody wants to go and do the job and Brexit has stopped people from the EU coming to do it then why aren't locals wanting to do it?

Wage
Conditions
etc etc etc

The same goes for any undesirable job.

 

[shmmeee]

Do they teach people from the EU butchering as standard at high school then?

What is it? Is it Brexit or is it that people just don't want to do those jobs?

If it's Brexit, how do all of the people from the EU get trained, licensed to come and butcher in the UK?

We do this in the NHS as well, hire a load of doctors and nurses from abroad because we don’t want to pay to train them.



Regardless setting up training courses, filling them, then waiting for people to qualify takes time. Years at the very least. What do we do in the mean time?