Tactics (3 Viewers)

[KersleyDigs]

What has annoyed me about tonight is that if I (a football nobody) was managing Luton, I would have told them to hit the ball in behind our wing backs who look to push high. It basic as fuck yet has absolutely undone us!! Clarke- Salter and Maatsen were in no man's land for the first 20 mins. Lost McFadzean's trust and then he fluffs it by coming across to firefight.

 

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[usskyblue]

Prefer Polo’s myself m8

 

[PVA]

There is nothing wrong with wing backs being high up the pitch, that's the whole point of them.

It's down to the centre back on that side to cover the long ball.

Hyam manages it perfectly fine. JCS.... less so.

 

[skybluereeve]

The left side was 4 out the 5 goals that really worries me tonight

 

[KersleyDigs]

I said on August 17th after the Blackpool game, that our left side was a big worry for me with JCS and Maatsen. Tonight, they were BADLY exposed

 

[shmmeee]

This place is crap after we lose.

 

[KersleyDigs]

I know mate! I'm sorry, just so annoying how easy it was. Meat and potatoes type stuff

 

[Londonccfcfan]

The left side was 4 out the 5 goals that really worries me tonight

Ripped to shreds that Adebajo gave JCS nightmares...He gave him too much space first half. 2nd half did much better but game was over by then.

 

[SeaSeeEffCee]

Still think it’s absolutely mad that we didn’t bring in a second LWB. Maatsen is only a kid and there is no-one there to cover for him when he’s having a rough patch, or that we can bring in for games he’s not suited to. I know Kane can supposedly play there but we really should have tried to bring in someone who plays there natural and has a bit of experience. Left side was appalling tonight.

 

[Perryccfc]

All too easy to say in hindsight. Their big lad tore JCS a new one, he was on fire. Give them the benefit of the doubt, both young and new to the team, it’s a learning curve.

 

[Essexrobbie]

What has annoyed me about tonight is that if I (a football nobody) was managing Luton, I would have told them to hit the ball in behind our wing backs who look to push high. It basic as fuck yet has absolutely undone us!! Clarke- Salter and Maatsen were in no man's land for the first 20 mins. Lost McFadzean's trust and then he fluffs it by coming across to firefight.

You;re 100% right. When you're bossing a game having high wing backs is ok but we were exposed continually down our left flank and needed to convert to a 4 4 2 to protect it, but that requires conventional full backs.

 

[robbiekeane]

This place is crap after we lose.

It’s not like we just “lost” is it. People can take losing if it’s a contested game. That was an absolute annihilation. Odd that you expect people to be happy or not express how pissed off they are. It’s valid too, JCS has had a mare, but Robins surely should’ve changed things.

Don’t really see what’s wrong with pointing that out

 

[CDK]

From robins down a bad night at the office.

 

[Flying Fokker]

This place is crap after we lose.

Pretty crap anywhere when we lose.

 

[fatso]

They obviously targeted our left side, where our inexperience clearly showed, Maatsen had a fucking nightmare, consistently leaving JCS exposed, who was out muscled and embarrassed on more that a few occasions.

However, the Pen was outside the box, and there was a hint of offside for the second, and Sheaf needs a kick in the bollocks for getting caught in possession for the fifth, if the last goal was the winner in a 1-0 defeat, Sheaf would be getting pelters on here.
Honestly the guy who picked his pocket was sat in the back of the stand when Fadz passed to him!

Anyway, time to draw a line under that game and move forward to saturday, time for the fans to lift the boys and be the twelfth man !

 

[CovBrummie94]

There were signs during Millwall away that our left hand side could be targeted. Pretty much all of their chances in the first half came down that side before we improved after HT. Unfortunately not the case last night as Luton dominated. Like many have said though they are 2 young lads who will hopefully learn from last night and come back stronger.


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[stupot07]

There is nothing wrong with wing backs being high up the pitch, that's the whole point of them.

It's down to the centre back on that side to cover the long ball.

Hyam manages it perfectly fine. JCS.... less so.

Sorry, but wingbacks have to defend too, thr 4th goal Maatsens does not track his man. Thats not good enough.

Its easy to point at JCS and say that Hyam manages it, but Kane was constantly tracking back and helping defend, so Hyam was nowhere near as exposed as JCS. JCS was poor though

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[BigadamL]

didnt see all the people moaning about wing backs when we were winning.

we had a bad game and got out played, we were not good enough last night and we need to be realistic, if anything it might of been a good thing to happen to us bring a few people back down to earth.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

You;re 100% right. When you're bossing a game having high wing backs is ok but we were exposed continually down our left flank and needed to convert to a 4 4 2 to protect it, but that requires conventional full backs.

When we've got the ball they can push up, when we don't drop back a bit.

 

[Old Warwickshire lad]

They put a high press on us from the very start,not allowing us to settle. It was not only a high press but a very aggressive one. They had done their homework and carried out a great game plan.
We will have learned a lot about ourselves last night, and you can bet Mark and Adi will have missed nothing.
It will be put right on the training ground. So let’s not panic, let’s wait and see how we cope next time. And there WILL be a next time.

 

[PVA]

Sorry, but wingbacks have to defend too, thr 4th goal Maatsens does not track his man. Thats not good enough.

Its easy to point at JCS and say that Hyam manages it, but Kane was constantly tracking back and helping defend, so Hyam was nowhere near as exposed as JCS. JCS was poor though

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Yeah of course WBs have to defend as well, I'm not absolving them of all defensive responsibility.

I'm just saying that when we're attacking and the wing back is high up the pitch, a long ball over the top into the space behind them is for the CB to deal with, not the wing back (because it's physically impossible to if he's up the pitch)

You highlight the 4th goal. Yes Maatsen should have tracked his man better but if you turn the volume you can hear the coaches shouting 'Jake' for him to come across and he makes almost no effort to close down and block the cross.

 

[cc84cov]

They obviously targeted our left side, where our inexperience clearly showed, Maatsen had a fucking nightmare, consistently leaving JCS exposed, who was out muscled and embarrassed on more that a few occasions.

However, the Pen was outside the box, and there was a hint of offside for the second, and Sheaf needs a kick in the bollocks for getting caught in possession for the fifth, if the last goal was the winner in a 1-0 defeat, Sheaf would be getting pelters on here.
Honestly the guy who picked his pocket was sat in the back of the stand when Fadz passed to him!

Anyway, time to draw a line under that game and move forward to saturday, time for the fans to lift the boys and be the twelfth man !

Sheaf will be doing that his entire career

 

[Sky Blue Harry H]

Sheaf will be doing that his entire career

And you will be doing this for his entire career?

 

[Legia Sky Blue]

They put a high press on us from the very start,not allowing us to settle. It was not only a high press but a very aggressive one. They had done their homework and carried out a great game plan.
We will have learned a lot about ourselves last night, and you can bet Mark and Adi will have missed nothing.
It will be put right on the training ground. So let’s not panic, let’s wait and see how we cope next time. And there WILL be a next time.

I gave up watching after the 1st half so don't know if things changed in the 2nd (although too late by then even if so), but I was particularly disappointed that we continued to play short from the back, on a tight pitch that favoured pressing, and also when they were so pumped up with the success they were having at picking us off playing that way.

Towards the back end of last season we adapted our game when we played on poor pitches and against opposition like Barnsley that pressed in that manner, so it was disappointing we didn't go to that Plan B last night, when it was so quickly apparent that our favoured playing style was doomed to failure on the night.

 

[The Philosopher]

Still think it’s absolutely mad that we didn’t bring in a second LWB. Maatsen is only a kid and there is no-one there to cover for him when he’s having a rough patch, or that we can bring in for games he’s not suited to. I know Kane can supposedly play there but we really should have tried to bring in someone who plays there natural and has a bit of experience. Left side was appalling tonight.

Can JCS play LWB (I ask because I don’t know). He made a couple of half decent runs last night- maybe Rose in CB and JCS LWB?

Don’t know but agree we are light on the left.

 

[cc84cov]

And you will be doing this for his entire career?

He won’t be here his entire career

 

[procdoc]

The bottom line is everyone performed below par and Luton were on it, that’s a recipe for a heavy defeat.
The tactics of the wing backs were not questioned until now. Playing that system means the most space for any team to try and exploit is in the space down the channels. If the centre halves are struggling to get across quickly then one of the sitting midfield players needs to be in a position to offer cover in the middle so the centre halves can split quicker .
When Chelsea for example have their wing backs higher up the pitch Jorginho is almost on a string with his centre backs, dropping deep to either receive the ball or offer cover in case the space in the channels gets exploited

 

[Esoterica]

Sorry, but wingbacks have to defend too, thr 4th goal Maatsens does not track his man. Thats not good enough.

Its easy to point at JCS and say that Hyam manages it, but Kane was constantly tracking back and helping defend, so Hyam was nowhere near as exposed as JCS. JCS was poor though

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The wingbacks have to get forward for this formation to work, especially chasing the game, but they need to get back and defend out of possession but that's exactly what Maatsen is doing - getting back. Kane has done the right thing too - Maatsen has gone forward and Kane is marking his man in a fullback position.

What should have happened is that the back 3 should all be 5 metres to the left. JCS should be way closer to the ball and in a position to stand his man up to avoid him driving at the box at full speed or getting an early cross in, Fadz should be in a position to cover JCS if he gets skinned and Hyam should be on the toes of their one central attacker.

If anything I thought Kane needed to be the one that got forward more last night, especially after the first couple of goals. Luton clearly targetted that side, so let Maatsen be the one that tucks in and protect that left side. The awful performance was less worrying for me than lack of adaptation to what was unfolding, we just kept doing the same thing all night.

 

[shmmeee]

The wingbacks have to get forward for this formation to work, especially chasing the game, but they need to get back and defend out of possession but that's exactly what Maatsen is doing - getting back. Kane has done the right thing too - Maatsen has gone forward and Kane is marking his man in a fullback position.

What should have happened is that the back 3 should all be 5 metres to the left. JCS should be way closer to the ball and in a position to stand his man up to avoid him driving at the box at full speed or getting an early cross in, Fadz should be in a position to cover JCS if he gets skinned and Hyam should be on the toes of their one central attacker.

If anything I thought Kane needed to be the one that got forward more last night, especially after the first couple of goals. Luton clearly targetted that side, so let Maatsen be the one that tucks in and protect that left side. The awful performance was less worrying for me than lack of adaptation to what was unfolding, we just kept doing the same thing all night.

Yeah leaving aside last night that’s what we’ve done all season, almost a flat back four with one wingback pushed up. I think we threw caution to the wind somewhat when we were so far behind yesterday and JCS having a mare just compounded that.

 

[SBAndy]

They beat us in transition yesterday. Just look at those images of the Maatsen/JCS debacle and note that the midfielders are very high up the pitch leaving a huge space in between them and the defence.

I said earlier in the season that being on a bigger pitch (at the CBS) was a huge benefit as it gave us more space to play, and it showed last night when we’re on a tighter pitch our frailties are borne out. Reminded me of our games at St Andrew’s last season actually.

I don’t think it’s a Home vs Away thing, I think we’ve got to adapt better to the conditions and opposition than we did last night. I wouldn’t have played Allen even though he’s been in good form. Could have really done with Sheaf or Kelly to give the shape a bit more rigidity.

 

[The Philosopher]

The wingbacks have to get forward for this formation to work, especially chasing the game, but they need to get back and defend out of possession but that's exactly what Maatsen is doing - getting back. Kane has done the right thing too - Maatsen has gone forward and Kane is marking his man in a fullback position.

What should have happened is that the back 3 should all be 5 metres to the left. JCS should be way closer to the ball and in a position to stand his man up to avoid him driving at the box at full speed or getting an early cross in, Fadz should be in a position to cover JCS if he gets skinned and Hyam should be on the toes of their one central attacker.

If anything I thought Kane needed to be the one that got forward more last night, especially after the first couple of goals. Luton clearly targetted that side, so let Maatsen be the one that tucks in and protect that left side. The awful performance was less worrying for me than lack of adaptation to what was unfolding, we just kept doing the same thing all night.

Good analysis now I think back.

Mastsen should have stayed back a bit - Gyok cuts in from the left so channel balls wide left don’t need our WB to dart on to so much.

 

[Nick]

The most annoying thing is that we didn't actually change the approach.

Yeah we made 3 subs but still tried to do the things that didn't work in the 5th minute.

 

[procdoc]

The most annoying thing is that we didn't actually change the approach.

Yeah we made 3 subs but still tried to do the things that didn't work in the 5th minute.

I guess Robins thought that the players coming on offered different attributes to the players coming off. At that point I suppose nothing was going to alter the inevitable outcome

 

[shmmeee]

The most annoying thing is that we didn't actually change the approach.

Yeah we made 3 subs but still tried to do the things that didn't work in the 5th minute.

Not sure what we could’ve done TBH. Two things did us last night: long balls from the back we couldn’t deal with and the high press. We could’ve gone longer but they’d have just kept pumping balls over the top cos the forwards were winning nothing and the midfield didn’t get any second balls. We played their game of head tennis all the time and got beat at it in the middle.

 

[The Philosopher]

I guess Robins thought that the players coming on offered different attributes to the players coming off. At that point I suppose nothing was going to alter the inevitable outcome

I’m guessing he brought Gyok off so he was fresh for Saturday.
Hamer off so he didn’t get second carded and sent off a banned longer.
Fadz off to save his legs.

Walker on because he needs a run out
Rose on for sale reason
Sheaf? No idea.