SlowerThanPlatt
Well-Known Member
CC84 and Rupert. What a tag team
Best midfield pairing (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter cc84cov
- Start date
For me personally I dont trust sheaf to give a better consistent performance over hamer, Kelly etc. Possibly because he is learning his trade? That said, we can’t afford sheaf to learn his trade in the first team but I understand the argument that we can’t afford better. We have to live with an inconsistent performer until he either improves or robins and the coaching staff agree he needs to move on.
If it wasn’t for the agreement with Arsenal at the start of last season I don’t think we would have signed him personally. He wouldn’t be in my first eleven if I was picking the team but what do I know…
If it wasn’t for the agreement with Arsenal at the start of last season I don’t think we would have signed him personally. He wouldn’t be in my first eleven if I was picking the team but what do I know…
SlowerThanPlatt
Well-Known Member
The agreement was on games played I believe. They could choose not to meet it if they didn’t want to pursue signing him
SkyBlueMatt
Well-Known Member
I think this post explains the defence quite well. When Sheaf drops a clanger, its fair to say that but I think he gets far too much blame put on him. It all seems to stem back from last season.
At the end of the day he is 1st choice over Kelly and I think that's what Robins believes.
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Blind-Faith
Well-Known Member
Sheaf appears to play better when he’s got a bit of fire in his belly, I rate the lad and think he’s going to be a very good player. But yesterday wasn’t his best game.
start of the season with Allen , hamer and ohare in the centre we looked absolutely class at home.
But at the moment you have to say Kelly and Hamer with ohare further forward is our best midfield. But it’s great having Allen and Sheaf ready to come in
start of the season with Allen , hamer and ohare in the centre we looked absolutely class at home.
But at the moment you have to say Kelly and Hamer with ohare further forward is our best midfield. But it’s great having Allen and Sheaf ready to come in
SkyblueDad
Well-Known Member
I like Sheaf but the OP who is the better pairing and that’s a fully fit Kelly and Hamer and imo the least effective Kelly & Sheaf look at yesterday. But let’s take into account Blackburn’s Joe Rothwell what a good player he is what an addition he would be in our midfield.
stay_up_skyblues
Well-Known Member
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Hamer & Kelly not even up fro debate...so let’s debate
This aged well
Evo1883
Well-Known Member
Hamer looking like the hamer of last season last night .
You have to imagine the deep lying nature of Kelly played a part in that , and possibly sheafs performance at blackburn too maybe first half
I don't know
stay_up_skyblues
Well-Known Member
He’s normally bang on to be fair 
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
LolHamer & Kelly not even up fro debate...so let’s debate
Saddlebrains
Well-Known Member
Hamer and Allen
Yorkshire SB
Well-Known Member
Hamer and Sheaf - perfect combination. Sheaf needs to be playing every week to be on top of his game.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Yes, for a player who clearly grows in confidence as he plays it's pretty poor man management the way he's dropped in and out. I'm pretty sure he's the number 1 defensive midfield option ahead of Kelly now.
Skybluefaz
Well-Known Member
They have been the most impressive
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
Sheaf and Hamer by so far it's not even funny.
Allen gets an honourable mention but his purple patch was only a few games and I wouldn't have him ahead of either of the aforementioned.
Sheaf allows Hamer to play his best game by doing the unfashionable stuff but he does it in a way that doesn't slow our play like Kelly does while also adding some badly needed height into the side.
Allen gets an honourable mention but his purple patch was only a few games and I wouldn't have him ahead of either of the aforementioned.
Sheaf allows Hamer to play his best game by doing the unfashionable stuff but he does it in a way that doesn't slow our play like Kelly does while also adding some badly needed height into the side.
Yorkshire SB
Well-Known Member
Yeah considering his start I find it odd that he's now in and out the side. Can understand frustrations re the Blackburn game, but if your fullback pings a ball to your cm at knee height when he's facing his own goal, then he's almost certainly losing the ball.
If he's playing every week, he's going to be sharper/quicker and will cut out those errors that are symptomatic of a deep lying midfielder. I'd be investing in Sheaf now, give him 10 games in a row, let him have a bad game or two, but stick with him and see where we get. I'd bet by the end of that, there would be unanimous opinion that he's an important player for us.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
But it's also hard for MR to explain to those waiting in the wings why they've not been given a chance after Sheaf has dithered on the ball and cost a goal. Allen had a couple of decent games and got dropped. Can't really then justify keeping someone in after they've had a couple of average to poor games.
Liquid Gold
Well-Known Member
So Kelly and Dabo are out of the team form last night then?
I think you put your best team on the pitch whenever possible and Sheaf is definitely in our best team
Nick
Administrator
Hamer & Kelly not even up fro debate...so let’s debate
Pretty quiet last night watching that car crash?
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Allen is not a defensive midfielder. Sheaf was signed as such and needs a run in the team. Kelly remains a good servant to the club but top 6 sides in this league would not have him as a starter. His pass distribution is not at the required level
Great_Expectations
Well-Known Member
Kelly wasn’t great last night and his weakness on the ball is highlighted at this level. He needs to be reserved for games where we’re expecting to soak a lot of pressure i.e. against the best teams in the league, as his positioning and anticipation are his strengths.
All other games, be it home or away, we need Allen or Sheaf alongside Hamer. Sheaf if we’re looking to dominant possession and Allen if we want to play quick tempo, high press style.
All other games, be it home or away, we need Allen or Sheaf alongside Hamer. Sheaf if we’re looking to dominant possession and Allen if we want to play quick tempo, high press style.
Nick
Administrator
Yet on the other hand Kane comes in and plays better than Dabo but gets dropped.
Yorkshire SB
Well-Known Member
Sheaf one of our best players first 3-4 games. I understand you have to keep the squad happy, but he should be given the chance to play consistently. Appreciate Allen had a couple of decent games, but I don't think there's a case for Allen being anymore than back-up championship standard, so it's a different case.
fatso
Well-Known Member
People are completely ignoring the fact that Preston changed tactics at half time, that's what changed the game. It wasnt about us being poor, more about us not changing formation when it was blindingly obvious what was happening.
Preston just copied what Luton did to us, and clearly MR hasnt learnt from the lesson they gave us.
In the first half Dabo had space to get forward, and caused Preston problems, and that was where we looked to attack from. In the second half they pushed Josh Earl forward to pin Dabo back, and all of a sudden we had no outlet, and that let Dan Johnson have room to dictate the play, which he did to good effect.
I also thought Maatsen had a very poor game and offered nothing offensively.
We should of subbed Maartsen, moved Dabo to left back, and brought Kane on at RB. Gyokeres looked unfit and should of been replaced with Sheaf, and Hamer replaced with Allen, sacrificing 2 up front for 1 but giving us back some control in midfield.
This was obvious (imo) before Preston equalised. And other teams are likely to copy what Luton and Preston did to us.
Preston just copied what Luton did to us, and clearly MR hasnt learnt from the lesson they gave us.
In the first half Dabo had space to get forward, and caused Preston problems, and that was where we looked to attack from. In the second half they pushed Josh Earl forward to pin Dabo back, and all of a sudden we had no outlet, and that let Dan Johnson have room to dictate the play, which he did to good effect.
I also thought Maatsen had a very poor game and offered nothing offensively.
We should of subbed Maartsen, moved Dabo to left back, and brought Kane on at RB. Gyokeres looked unfit and should of been replaced with Sheaf, and Hamer replaced with Allen, sacrificing 2 up front for 1 but giving us back some control in midfield.
This was obvious (imo) before Preston equalised. And other teams are likely to copy what Luton and Preston did to us.
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Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
All of that is true.
But we've seen from Luton and second half last night that pressing us is the way to beat us. Other teams will have noticed that. Sheaf seems to want way too much time on the ball and if this starts happening regularly he will be caught in possession a lot.
Now you can argue that the only way he might get rid of that is by playing but that's no consolation for the numerous times we'd have to put up with conceding goals as he sorts it out.
Weird thing is Sheaf kinds of needs Kelly there to sweep up after him when he does do it but we can't play then together as there'd be very little forward momentum.
SlowerThanPlatt
Well-Known Member
Why did we need to change it if Kelly is the best no debate?Have we all forgot sheaf last week nowPreston Changed it half time Robins sat and didn’t react
cc84cov
Well-Known Member
The system Allen for a striker
GaryMabbuttsLeftKnee
Well-Known Member
One of the biggest issues I have with your take of - 'Have we all forgot Sheaf last week' - like he dropped a disastrous performance. He was absolutely fine apart from one, I appreciate it was a telling one, mistake. I also appreciate he's made a couple more (although the number is exaggerated), but his all round play other than those very specific moments has been very good and hugely contributes to the way we play. When Kelly plays, we have to play entirely differently because he is nowhere near good enough on the ball. Essentially we revert to being constantly on the backfoot, relying on long or channel balls and being more survival based.Have we all forgot sheaf last week now
The comparison will seem strange but it reminds me of Victor Valdes in goal for Barcelona under Guardiola. He made several mistakes passing it out from the back, but Guardiola persisted with it insisting, 'It will win us more games than it will lose. We have to accept there will be mistakes in the early stages but as confidence grows, there will be less and less and our whole game will be vastly improved.' And that is exactly what happened. Sheaf is our best player in that position, BUT he has a rook in him. If we persist with him, his confidence will grow, the mistakes will become less frequent as his decision making improves and our all round game will be hugely benefitted.
stay_up_skyblues
Well-Known Member
There was one clear miss placed pass from Gus last night that could easily have resulted in a goal. Quite a few others that might have. But Sheaf gets lambasted for it and Hamer gets a song. Bizarre.
Both good players but prone to drop a bollock. Like every player at this level.
Both good players but prone to drop a bollock. Like every player at this level.
SkyblueDad
Well-Known Member
In fairness Robins has put his hands up to not changing things earlier he should have added to the midfield and I think going forward needs to look at his midfield options in away games.
stupot07
Well-Known Member
I don't think people are ignoring that. What we saw was under pressure of a high intensity press, Kelly just doesn't have the technical ability to cope and the game was passing him by, whereas Sheaf came on and instantly got hold of the ball and started to dictate play.
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fatso
Well-Known Member
Sheaf has dropped two bollocks recently that have both resulted in goals.
If you fuck up and get away with it, it’s quickly forgotten.
Hamer was poor by his standards last night.