Whats the answer to the away form? (9 Viewers)

[Grendel]

You have literally just summed up "over-achieving" in one sentence. Our players are playing better than their original worth. Over-achieving.

Clueless

 

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[SlowerThanPlatt]

You have literally just summed up "over-achieving" in one sentence. Our players are playing better than their original worth. Over-achieving.

It depends what you mean by original value. Players like O’Hare and Dabo joined on a free but I would say that is more of a reflection of the other world of Premier League finances

 

[Grendel]

It depends what you mean by original value. Players like O’Hare and Dabo joined on a free but I would say that is more of a reflection of the other world of Premier League finances

He doesn't understand the discussion

 

[harvey098]

Derby have a bigger budget by your definition - which players would you swap with Prestons players? Budget includes ability to transact. Hardly any clubs in this league have transacted in the summer at all. Its full of clubs with players on long contracts at inflated wages

You are associating budget with wages. Preston - will they attract better players and even if they can how would they sign them with all the budget tied in the existing squad?

Put it this way, if we had one of the biggest budgets in the division and were sitting 4th from bottom, you would be the first to say we were under-achieving. It has to work both ways. Anyway, I'm bored. You will never be happy, even when we're sitting 4th in the championship. I'm so glad I'm not as miserable as you.

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

Derby have a bigger budget by your definition - which players would you swap with Prestons players? Budget includes ability to transact. Hardly any clubs in this league have transacted in the summer at all. Its full of clubs with players on long contracts at inflated wages

You are associating budget with wages. Preston - will they attract better players and even if they can how would they sign them with all the budget tied in the existing squad?

It has been said on here numerous that’s it’s the best squad since relegation from the Premier League

 

[harvey098]

He doesn't understand the discussion

I understand your backwards argument entirely, I just don't agree with it. I think you're an actual moron.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Not sure.

When we play a more defensive midfield pairing we lack creativity. Play the more creative ones and we look a bit soft. WB's aren't as influential and need to be braver.

We could have a second CAM like Allen instead and go one up top but I think we could only do that with Vic. Walker it's a waste of what he's good at, when we've played it with Godden he doesn't seem to play that well, Waghorn probably has the nous but not the physicality and isn't enough of a goal threat to play up front on his own. All the strikers seem to be better in a pairing.

I guess the first thing has to be to get the wingbacks being more adventurous like they are at home.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

42

I don't understand the question.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Derby have a bigger budget by your definition - which players would you swap with Prestons players? Budget includes ability to transact. Hardly any clubs in this league have transacted in the summer at all. Its full of clubs with players on long contracts at inflated wages

You are associating budget with wages. Preston - will they attract better players and even if they can how would they sign them with all the budget tied in the existing squad?

Would certainly take Johnson

 

[Grendel]

I understand your backwards argument entirely, I just don't agree with it. I think you're an actual moron.

No you don't understand it. A business is valued on its assets which in this case is players. Player values in many clubs are being devalued. You cannot define budget purely on the labour bill as the amortisation shows - I think Stoke was (£60m) - many clubs have not paid fees for players this season at all. We have spent reportedly £2 million - many clubs have not

The value placed on this forum of the 4 players I keep mentioning is around £30 - £40 million

Thats the real value. To view a declining points average - which would be fairly significant if we ended up 12 - 13 from now and view thats as a success in laughable

 

[shmmeee]

I don't understand the question.

Whats 6 x 7?

 

[Grendel]

It has been said on here numerous that’s it’s the best squad since relegation from the Premier League

The squad in the first season was better - a lot better - and again we blew up and never recovered as with the Mowbray season

 

[harvey098]

No you don't understand it. A business is valued on its assets which in this case is players. Player values in many clubs are being devalued. You cannot define budget purely on the labour bill as the amortisation shows - I think Stoke was (£60m) - many clubs have not paid fees for players this season at all. We have spent reportedly £2 million - many clubs have not

The value placed on this forum of the 4 players I keep mentioning is around £30 - £40 million

Thats the real value. To view a declining points average - which would be fairly significant if we ended up 12 - 13 from now and view thats as a success in laughable

You're thick as mince. This is such a ridiculous way of looking at it and you know it. I'm turning notifications off now so you can have the last word if you need it lol

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Whats 6 x 7?

I thought it was 6 by 9?

 

[Grendel]

You're thick as mince. This is such a ridiculous way of looking at it and you know it. I'm turning notifications off now so you can have the last word if you need it lol

I am as thick as mince and I am a moron is your coherent argument. Its spell binding in its intellectual persuasion.

 

[COV]

We are certainly overachieving, massively maybe up for debate. I obviously won't be happy if we fall to midtable but it isn't the tragedy you are insinuating it is. However, it can at least be a stick you can beat the manager with if we do drop out of playoff contention over the season.

This is pretty accurate I think. Of course we're over achieving. Before the season most people were saying that we'd just avoid the drop or we'd maybe manage mid-table. There were also plenty saying we can't compete with other clubs and so were in for a big struggle again, grendel himself predicted bottom third, so to now be coming out with all this stuff is silly.

That doesn't change the fact that last night was awful though- a decent first half then a bit of a capitulation in the second, I thought we looked clueless throughout the second half. Saturday will tell us a lot.

 

[SlowerThanPlatt]

Taken from Twitter:

Now here is a short look in to #CCFC away performances…

Since last season, we’ve played 30 away games with 90 points on offer, winning 23 points. Avg. 0.76ppg.

We have won 5 of the 30 games, drawn 8 and lost 17.

ALL 5 wins have been by 1 goal.*

7 of the 17 losses have also been by 1 goal.**

Now add the 8 draws, then 20 of the 30 away games have been either drawn or won/lost by 1 goal.

 

[Evo1883]

We aren't massively over achieving - as I said on another thread budgets are not really an argument. Budgets are in essence wages and a lot of clubs in this league have players on high wages but zero value. Stoke have actually bought some players but a large element of their huge losses is tied up in over valued players whose values are now written down. Birmingham, Cardiff, Swansea will have high wages but poor players and little ability to operate in the transfer market.

People have said Dabo, Hamer, O Hare and Gyokeres are high values in the transfer market so the squad value is high

We finished 8th in the Mowbray season and by your own argument was a brilliant season. We declined and we never recovered.

To finish 11 - 12 now would mean we are declining from the start and unless we have injuries to key players I do not see logically why we should.

I don't agree with your budget argument but I agree we should still aim for top half and a playoff push , that's just called ambition

The reason being if you took the last 10 seasons from any given league , the odds of the teams with bigger budgets filling the top half of the table are generally quite high , not necessarily in order , but still up there in general

You do ofcourse get some exceptions

 

[Colin Steins Smile]

This is pretty accurate I think. Of course we're over achieving. Before the season most people were saying that we'd just avoid the drop or we'd maybe manage mid-table. There were also plenty saying we can't compete with other clubs and so were in for a big struggle again, grendel himself predicted bottom third, so to now be coming out with all this stuff is silly.

That doesn't change the fact that last night was awful though- a decent first half then a bit of a capitulation in the second, I thought we looked clueless throughout the second half. Saturday will tell us a lot.

Last night did show our limitations as a team. Preston outmuscled us and pressed us much higher in the second half, which stifled our creativity.
We've had a positive start to the season and perhaps our league position did flatter us. However, we have a track record of being stronger in the second half of a season, so a top half of the table finish would show really good progress. However, we might just nip into the play offs, if we can maintain fitness and find alternative options to pick up points. Those are big IF's

 

[clint van damme]

Aim as high as possible and if you don’t achieve that you’ll still probably overachieve anyway. We have gifted away as many points on the road as we have stolen at home.

There needs to be more self belief on the road

This is what pisses me off, stolen points at home, absolute bollocks, we've deserved every one.

Just criticising the away form should be enough because it's poor but you have to have a snide comment about the home form. Give it a fucking rest.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

This is what pisses me off, stolen points at home, absolute bollocks, we've deserved every one.

Just criticising the away form should be enough because it's poor but you have to have a snide comment about the home form. Give it a fucking rest.

tbf we've had a couple of injury time winners so, even if the performances in those games were good, it's not unreasonable to suggest we sneaked bonus points out of those games.

 

[clint van damme]

tbf we've had a couple of injury time winners so, even if the performances in those games were good, it's not unreasonable to suggest we sneaked bonus points out of those games.

An injury time goal is asvalid as any other.
And it's not like we weren't dominating those games and piling on the pressure.

Was the same last season, everything good we did was some anomaly

 

[Evo1883]

This is what pisses me off, stolen points at home, absolute bollocks, we've deserved every one.

Just criticising the away form should be enough because it's poor but you have to have a snide comment about the home form. Give it a fucking rest.

Yea it's a bit harsh to say we've stolen points at home when the XG tables show we basically deserved every single point , and match stats in general back it up
If anything teams almost stole points off us at home

 

[Deleted member 5849]

An injury time goal is asvalid as any other.
And it's not like we weren't dominating those games and piling on the pressure.

Was the same last season, everything good we did was some anomaly

It's as valid, but if we'd lost to injury time goals we'd be saying it was unlucky.

 

[Evo1883]

It's as valid, but if we'd lost to injury time goals we'd be saying it was unlucky.

Like we were robbed at blackburn away and at Barnsley away then really , we probably deserved more from both especially with the penalty not penalty on Saturday

We should have been 2 or 3 up at QPR half time .

Ultimately that's not how football works

 

[SkyblueDad]

Last night so frustrating but let’s not forget we are still very much a work in progress team and still sitting fourth. This is an uncompromising division where anyone can really beat anyone, look at promotion favourites West Brom last night did the same as us. Robins obviously needs to look at things especially how we set up away from home both v Blackburn and Preston after dominating periods of the game we seem to surrender centre midfield inviting pressure. Do we have the personnel to stop that not sure to be honest.
Talking Maatsen much better player in a balanced back five with JCS alongside him not sure if JCS was fullly fit after his covid issue but hopefully he’ll be back Saturday. But let’s be optimistic another home win v Derby and yesterday is forgotten.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Like we were robbed at blackburn away and at Barnsley away then really , we probably deserved more from both especially with the penalty not penalty on Saturday

We were indeed robbed at Barnsley.

tbf, wasn't that the general point, that we've maybe got less points than we deserve away, but it's compensated by a couple of bonuses at home, so the disparity between performances isn't as big as it maybe looks?

 

[Evo1883]

To be fair we started the season away from home in the correct manner , very much playing like we do at home .

Played well at Barnsley and Blackpool got 3 points when we should arguably have got more , good hour at QPR , then from millwall it's gradually deteriorated away ..

One thing we have in common from all our better away performances is sheaf and hamer the central midfield partnership

 

[clint van damme]

It's as valid, but if we'd lost to injury time goals we'd be saying it was unlucky.

I wouldn't to be honest. You keep playing until the end.

 

[COV]

Last night did show our limitations as a team. Preston outmuscled us and pressed us much higher in the second half, which stifled our creativity.
We've had a positive start to the season and perhaps our league position did flatter us. However, we have a track record of being stronger in the second half of a season, so a top half of the table finish would show really good progress. However, we might just nip into the play offs, if we can maintain fitness and find alternative options to pick up points. Those are big IF's

Completely agree. At this stage nothing would surprise me, but (touch wood) I think we'll be miles away from any relegation worries and there will be big progression, as measured by league placings.

 

[COV]

Aim as high as possible and if you don’t achieve that you’ll still probably overachieve anyway. We have gifted away as many points on the road as we have stolen at home.

There needs to be more self belief on the road

What do you mean we've stolen points at home? Thats not true at all.

 

[SkyblueDad]

Last night did show our limitations as a team. Preston outmuscled us and pressed us much higher in the second half, which stifled our creativity.
We've had a positive start to the season and perhaps our league position did flatter us. However, we have a track record of being stronger in the second half of a season, so a top half of the table finish would show really good progress. However, we might just nip into the play offs, if we can maintain fitness and find alternative options to pick up points. Those are big IF's

We definitely need to look at the midfield area defending set pieces as an example, I like us leaving two up front but then we have this gap between them and defence and invariably the opposition pick up the ball from clearances

 

[PVA]

It's absurd to say we aren't over achieving. Not surprised by who is saying it mind you.


As for the question of the thread I think a return to the box has to be worth a go. Gyo up top to act as a focal point with O'Hare and Allen making runs off him, while Allen can add an extra presence in midfield that we were desperately missing last night.

 

[SkyblueTexan]

I think 4-5-1 or 5-4-1 should be the formation to use away from home.

 

[KG7]

Patience. Let Mark and Adi do what they always do and improve us over the course of the season.

Maybe a shout for one up front and a box for away games, but nothing drastic needed. We're playing in a very similar way to how we play at home, dominating teams for the most part apart from Luton, Blackburn (1h), and Preston (2h).

Also, I think the issues in the Luton game, where Kelly could have made a difference with his experience in front of the back five, were different to the issues in last nights game where Allen breaking the lines from deep could have helped us in the second half.

Maybe the fans at home are having a bigger impact than we thought possible too.