Derby points deduction (23 Viewers)

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B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
not really it was the clueless morons at the council who insisted on the mortgage of a debt that’s bust ACl and is the reason Wasps still are refunding
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Well selling our stake has ultimately made it near impossible for us to own the ground.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Well selling our stake has ultimately made it near impossible for us to own the ground.
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Again it didn’t as wasps were sold it with a lease extension. We’d never have owned ACL anyway as the council had an independent director in place who would have always voted for them.

The council leaders - and I’ve met a few - are morons who I wouldn’t even put in charge of a chip shop
 
shepardo01

shepardo01

Well-Known Member
Liquid Gold said:
The only reason this doesn’t apply for us is that they have their own stadium and our council sold ours to a rah rah cunts.
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Don't think they do. Not technically. Part of their financial shenanigans was to sell the ground.
Think an American company owns it. An amicable sale - not the same situation as ours though.
 
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HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Interesting they're all blaming Mel Morris. Weren't doing that when he was pumping in ridiculous amounts for them to cheat their way to a play off final
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To be fair we weren’t bothered when we we were spunking away money we didn’t have when we were buying 100 million pound stadiums, Robbie Keane, Gary McAllister, Noel Whelan etc and yet there are still loads of us blaming Richardson, Mcginnity and Robinson for their role in our shit show

it’s not the fans fault, every football fan is happy to go along for the ride.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
To be fair we weren’t bothered when we we were spunking away money we didn’t have when we were buying 100 million pound stadiums, Robbie Keane, Gary McAllister, Noel Whelan etc and yet there are still loads of us blaming Richardson, Mcginnity and Robinson for their role in our shit show

it’s not the fans fault, every football fan is happy to go along for the ride.
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Just some self awareness isn’t much to ask really. Though yes 10 year old me was happy watching Robbie Keane on MOTD
 
Danceswithhorses

Danceswithhorses

Well-Known Member
No sympathy from me - they overspent massively, tried to cheat and hide it, and got caught - the points deductions are deserved, and good riddance (it's personal - i used to get 'shit' from an old, smug, Derby supporting mate, so it's schadenfreude for me this time buddy)
I often hear people saying how well Derby are doing this year, but adding back their deducted 12 points, they would still only be in 20th place on 18 points...it's pretty much the same crappy position they were in last year.
Ok, so the club lost some players, but it's hardly great management from Mr Potato head....a 'consistent', expensive, but poor manager.
I'd probably wager that Derby still spend more on salaries than we do, and look where we are currently, with a decent manager.
 
H

HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
Danceswithhorses said:
No sympathy from me - they overspent massively, tried to cheat and hide it, and got caught - the points deductions are deserved, and good riddance (it's personal - i used to get 'shit' from an old, smug, Derby supporting mate, so it's schadenfreude for me this time buddy)
I often hear people saying how well Derby are doing this year, but adding back their deducted 12 points, they would still only be in 20th place on 18 points...it's pretty much the same crappy position they were in last year.
Ok, so the club lost some players, but it's hardly great management from Mr Potato head....a 'consistent', expensive, but poor manager.
I'd probably wager that Derby still spend more on salaries than we do, and look where we are currently, with a decent manager.
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Considering the players they have, regardless of wage I think Rooney is doing a decent job. With regards to them hiding it, whilst I don’t have sympathy per se - surely questions have to be asked as to why the EFL thought their amortisation method was ok for 3 years before changing their minds
 
Danceswithhorses

Danceswithhorses

Well-Known Member
HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
Considering the players they have, regardless of wage I think Rooney is doing a decent job. With regards to them hiding it, whilst I don’t have sympathy per se - surely questions have to be asked as to why the EFL thought their amortisation method was ok for 3 years before changing their minds
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Regarding the EFL, well...we all know how competent they are (not), and how flexible lax their rules are (our stadium issues come to mind)
Maybe the EFL hoped Derby would get promoted (in fact they almost were) and the problem would go away ?
 
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Flying Fokker

Flying Fokker

Well-Known Member
Danceswithhorses said:
No sympathy from me - they overspent massively, tried to cheat and hide it, and got caught - the points deductions are deserved, and good riddance (it's personal - i used to get 'shit' from an old, smug, Derby supporting mate, so it's schadenfreude for me this time buddy)
I often hear people saying how well Derby are doing this year, but adding back their deducted 12 points, they would still only be in 20th place on 18 points...it's pretty much the same crappy position they were in last year.
Ok, so the club lost some players, but it's hardly great management from Mr Potato head....a 'consistent', expensive, but poor manager.
I'd probably wager that Derby still spend more on salaries than we do, and look where we are currently, with a decent manager.
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Interesting read. The wages will be there for a while. Fair chance the team will struggle on the pitch from now on anyway. It happened to us when our highly paid staff saw no reason to fight for survival over a couple of seasons. The Derby fans deserve better. It happens to every club in admin of course. When we got S*** took charge they pulled their belts in and ran us like any business. But that doesn't work with football at the moment. The good thing for Derby is that they are unlikely to be putting out rubbish teams like we did for a few seasons. Fall to division 2 should never have happened. S*** again.
 
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H

HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
Saw nothing wrong with selling the ground to themselves? People are capable of some critical thought.
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Again, this isn’t the fans fault, it was a loophole in the system. This is the problem with FFP is so poorly written. I still don’t understand who the EFL are to tell someone what their asset is worth.

they sold pride park to some American company, we’re the obvious reason as to why this is bad, but atm the EFL can’t dictate what assets a football club can sell
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
H

HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Legal maybe, but sensible?

It's pretty obvious that it's a strategy that long term won't work in their favour. As has been shown a few times.
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When has football been sensible? If Derby beat villa in the play offs they’d buy back the stadium with the premier league money. It’s a gamble that’s backfired, and under their method of valuing players they were fine.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Legal maybe, but sensible?

It's pretty obvious that it's a strategy that long term won't work in their favour. As has been shown a few times.
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Its entirely sensible from an ownership perspective- from someone with accountancy background your comments often are baffling
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Grendel said:
Its entirely sensible from an ownership perspective- from someone with accountancy background your comments often are baffling
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Well, for a very short term to cover losses it makes a bit of sense if you like risk. But then they have to rent it back (often making the owner money in the process), it reduces their balance sheet assets so thus reduces their attractiveness for securing debt and makes it more expensive where they can.

Maybe I'm just more risk averse and if it's intended to be for a short period of time to provide short term funding to get the large windfall of PL then I can understand it, but am fully aware the chances of that failing are much higher than the prospects of it being successful and if it's not you're in a whole heap of financial trouble.

That's why it's not sensible.The potential problems are catastrophic and the chances of that happening are pretty high. It'd be like selling your house and using the proceeds to buy tickets for a huge Euromillions rollover. You might get lucky and win big, but it's far, far more likely you're going to end up practically bankrupt and homeless.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Well, for a very short term to cover losses it makes a bit of sense if you like risk. But then they have to rent it back (often making the owner money in the process), it reduces their balance sheet assets so thus reduces their attractiveness for securing debt and makes it more expensive where they can.

Maybe I'm just more risk averse and if it's intended to be for a short period of time to provide short term funding to get the large windfall of PL then I can understand it, but am fully aware the chances of that failing are much higher than the prospects of it being successful and if it's not you're in a whole heap of financial trouble.

That's why it's not sensible.The potential problems are catastrophic and the chances of that happening are pretty high. It'd be like selling your house and using the proceeds to buy tickets for a huge Euromillions rollover. You might get lucky and win big, but it's far, far more likely you're going to end up practically bankrupt and homeless.
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well it wouldn’t would it as it ring-fences the ground and that I assume is now in a separate organisation
 
lifeskyblue

lifeskyblue

Well-Known Member
Danceswithhorses said:
So another 9 points deducted with a further 3 suspended.
Pretty much relegated now...just hope their new owners don't spend a fortune to buy the league, and bounce straight back.

www.bbc.co.uk

Derby County: Championship bottom club docked nine more points for accounting rule breaches

Derby County are docked nine points for breaching accounting rules, leaving them facing the prospect of Championship relegation.
www.bbc.co.uk
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Not sure they have new owners sorted yet. If they don’t before January window the administrators might get rid of all their ‘high’ earners


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Danceswithhorses

Danceswithhorses

Well-Known Member
lifeskyblue said:
Not sure they have new owners sorted yet. If they don’t before January window the administrators might get rid of all their ‘high’ earners
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I think there are 2 groups still talking with the administrators, after one group recently pulled out ?
Whoever wins, they will be under pressure from the fans to spend money and make an immediate return....apparently Derby have only spent 4 years outside the top 2 divisions ?
 
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S

skybluesam66

Well-Known Member
Danceswithhorses said:
I think there are 2 groups still talking with the administrators, after one group recently pulled out ?
Whoever wins, they will be under pressure from the fans to spend money and make an immediate return....apparently Derby have only spent 4 years outside the top 2 divisions ?
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sunderland tried that!
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Find it difficult to believe anybody would want to takeover at this moment tbh. You'd wait until the summer so you're not funding wages for players going out of contract anyway. I think it would have been a better idea to defer the second deduction to next season but assume that's not something the rules permit
 
H

HuckerbyDublinWhelan

Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge said:
Find it difficult to believe anybody would want to takeover at this moment tbh. You'd wait until the summer so you're not funding wages for players going out of contract anyway. I think it would have been a better idea to defer the second deduction to next season but assume that's not something the rules permit
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Why would you do that? You can’t just apply a punishment when you fancy it. If Derby stayed up from the 12 points then you’d have a relegated side arguing it should have been applied this year

really it should have been applied with Sheff Wed, but you can’t retrospectively apply it due to the relegation implications from last season
 
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