Do you want to discuss boring politics? (91 Viewers)

[Ian1779]

Think Johnson’s on his way out TBH.

Who do we want in next?

Probably a straight fight between Liz “disgraceful cheese” Truss and Rishi “Rishi Sunak for the Rishi Sunak Party” Sunak.

That’s like being asked to chose your favourite type of shit to put in a sandwich.

 

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[fernandopartridge]

Yeah the answer, as it often is, is Brexit.

Some decent Tories in that list.

We're just left with the dregs now.

Have a look at their voting records, they're all Tory cunts regardless of their position on brexit

 

[PVA]

Have a look at their voting records, they're all Tory cunts regardless of their position on brexit

Not all of them are total cunts tbf.

And whether you think they are cunts or not, the likes of Clarke, Grieve, Stewart are all good politicians, and more fit for cabinet than any of the current shower.

 

[shmmeee]

Have a look at their voting records, they're all Tory cunts regardless of their position on brexit

Ah, but not all stupid Tory cunts.

 

[skybluetony176]

That’s like being asked to chose your favourite type of shit to put in a sandwich.

The options are no improvement. The current cabinet is the most talentless bunch of chancers ever assembled. To the point where if you picked the worse minister for each position in the entire history of that position you’d end up with the current cabinet.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

Think Johnson’s on his way out TBH.

Who do we want in next?

Probably a straight fight between Liz “disgraceful cheese” Truss and Rishi “Rishi Sunak for the Rishi Sunak Party” Sunak.

Inexplicably Johnson is the reason they are so popular with the electorate, for now at least. Neither of those two would be anywhere near as popular.

 

[robbiekeane]

Has she been found guilty - have I missed something?

She’s as guilty as they come Jesus

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Think Johnson’s on his way out TBH.

Who do we want in next?

Probably a straight fight between Liz “disgraceful cheese” Truss and Rishi “Rishi Sunak for the Rishi Sunak Party” Sunak.

The depressing thing is Johnson's probably the best option!

 

[shmmeee]

Inexplicably Johnson is the reason they are so popular with the electorate, for now at least. Neither of those two would be anywhere near as popular.

Polling suggests Sunak is reasonably popular, just his economics that isn’t.

 

[skybluetony176]

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Polling suggests Sunak is reasonably popular, just his economics that isn’t.

He's reasonably popular because he's not everywhere and still largely an unknown despite being Chancellor. Make him Leader and have him front and centre and I think it'd evaporate over the following year or two. Nick Clegg was popular for a while... As you say the thing people don't like is his economics. The only thing he has to provide at the moment is economics. He doesn't have the charisma of Johnson and people won't put up with this shit from someone who's incredibly dull.

 

[shmmeee]

He's reasonably popular because he's not everywhere and still largely an unknown despite being Chancellor. Make him Leader and have him front and centre and I think it'd evaporate over the following year or two. Nick Clegg was popular for a while... As you say the thing people don't like is his economics. The only thing he has to provide at the moment is economics. He doesn't have the charisma of Johnson and people won't put up with this shit from someone who's incredibly dull.

I think Sunak is a much tougher opponent for Starmer who’s main draw is “I’m competent” TBH. If I was Tory HQ it’s who I’d go for. Plus he’s the pay you to stay home and eat half price Nando’s guy.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

He's reasonably popular because he's not everywhere and still largely an unknown despite being Chancellor. Make him Leader and have him front and centre and I think it'd evaporate over the following year or two. Nick Clegg was popular for a while... As you say the thing people don't like is his economics. The only thing he has to provide at the moment is economics. He doesn't have the charisma of Johnson and people won't put up with this shit from someone who's incredibly dull.

He's only popular because of eat out to help out. It’s as basic as that. People think he's great because they got some half price food, if he was making the crass errors that Johnson does as PM he would soon become very unpopular. He doesn't have the sort of charisma Johnson seems to have.

 

[Grendel]

He's reasonably popular because he's not everywhere and still largely an unknown despite being Chancellor. Make him Leader and have him front and centre and I think it'd evaporate over the following year or two. Nick Clegg was popular for a while... As you say the thing people don't like is his economics. The only thing he has to provide at the moment is economics. He doesn't have the charisma of Johnson and people won't put up with this shit from someone who's incredibly dull.

Yes John Major was a laugh a minute guy

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I think Sunak is a much tougher opponent for Starmer who’s main draw is “I’m competent” TBH. If I was Tory HQ it’s who I’d go for. Plus he’s the pay you to stay home and eat half price Nando’s guy.

Sunak maybe would be tougher for Starmer, but I think he would have the slight upper hand as he'd be going up against someone more like him rather than fighting the personality. He's used to that in court and I think he'd feel more comfortable with it.

And does stuff like that really matter in terms of getting elected? Johnson remains more popular than Starmer despite the myriad of shit surrounding him because of his personality, not his ability or his work ethic.

Sunak v Starmer would be dull and duller, which could work against Starmer as people would stop paying attention to politics and just stick with what they know.

And while Sunak is the 'stay at home and get cheap food' guy he's also the 'massive NI hike rather than tax the rich' guy, You'd have also thought being a ex-public schoolboy and being the richest guy in parliament who married a billionnaire heiress wouldn't exactly make him a 'man of the people' considering they don't see Starmer as one just because he's a Sir.

I honestly think Sunak's popularity would very quickly disappear if he became leader.

 

[shmmeee]

Sunak maybe would be tougher for Starmer, but I think he would have the slight upper hand as he'd be going up against someone more like him rather than fighting the personality. He's used to that in court and I think he'd feel more comfortable with it.

And does stuff like that really matter in terms of getting elected? Johnson remains more popular than Starmer despite the myriad of shit surrounding him because of his personality, not his ability or his work ethic.

Sunak v Starmer would be dull and duller, which could work against Starmer as people would stop paying attention to politics and just stick with what they know.

And while Sunak is the 'stay at home and get cheap food' guy he's also the 'massive NI hike rather than tax the rich' guy, You'd have also thought being a ex-public schoolboy and being the richest guy in parliament who married a billionnaire heiress wouldn't exactly make him a 'man of the people' considering they don't see Starmer as one just because he's a Sir.

I honestly think Sunak's popularity would very quickly disappear if he became leader.

Id hope being a billionaire would work against him but we saw with Trump that a certain type of voter sees that as being successful and a good thing rather than an out of touch thing.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

your first sentence is absurd. China is a corrupt brutal regime that persecutes its civilians - especially “their daughters” on a daily basis. Brazil don’t believe climate change exists. Honestly that is an absurd position to take

Fair enough. China, Brazil and India parents don’t want the best for their children. Ok yep I’m sure you’re right

 

[chiefdave]

And while Sunak is the 'stay at home and get cheap food' guy he's also the 'massive NI hike rather than tax the rich' guy, You'd have also thought being a ex-public schoolboy and being the richest guy in parliament who married a billionnaire heiress wouldn't exactly make him a 'man of the people' considering they don't see Starmer as one just because he's a Sir.

The man of the people stuff doesn't seem to actually relate to their background though. Look at Johnson, he's hardly had a tough upbringing and he's considered a man of the people.

Not sure Sunak has the personality to pull it off though, as has been said it may be playing into Starmers hands to give him someone to debate with rather than someone who throws out jokes and soundbites.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The man of the people stuff doesn't seem to actually relate to their background though. Look at Johnson, he's hardly had a tough upbringing and he's considered a man of the people.

Not sure Sunak has the personality to pull it off though, as has been said it may be playing into Starmers hands to give him someone to debate with rather than someone who throws out jokes and soundbites.

It is a hope rather than an expectation. Weirdly the sleaze thing plays into Johnson's hands a bit because if you convince people that the whole of politics is infested then they're more likely to just give up trying to get someone decent and capable and just go for someone who'll at least be interesting. Show people a circus and they'll expect clowns.

I think with Johnson it's more his antics and personality rather than people actually thinking he's a 'man of the people'. Farage I think has people fooled he's a man of the people despite his investment banker background. As you say I don't think Rishi would have the personality to pull that off and his background would be more important to people. I do wonder if if he did take over whether we'd have the hypocrisy of the Tories labelling anyone who criticised him as racist and claiming it was just because of his ancestry.

 

[CCFCSteve]

I think when BSB was packing his bags for sunny Scotland a few weeks back when a few others inc me said two years is a long time in politics

The Johnson of today struggles in an election campaign, the positivity, cheeriness, ‘boosterism’ etc has gone. I don’t think he’s the same since getting and nearly dying of Covid, add that to the various other issues since (mainly pandemic and Brexit related), sticking with a weak/loyal cabinet rather than a more competent/challenging one plus having a new kid, he just looks done. Some (a lot) of the recent decision making is just shambolic

Whether he gets ‘it’ back for when an elections called, who knows. without it, if Starmer holds middle ground he’s got a very good chance of beating Johnson ...or a Truss or Sunak.

Sunaks obviously bright, apparently extremely hard working but just not sure after 11 years of Tory government how he or Truss, who appears competent, sells another 4 years without someone like Corbyn opposite. As was highlighted in the Blair and Brown doc, there’s a natural negative pull on parties that have been in power for any length of time and post pandemic theres unlikely to be much economic good news pre election to counter that

As I say, who knows though...politics is funny one and Covid could still come up with some surprises that change the political landscape again

 

[Grendel]

Fair enough. China, Brazil and India parents don’t want the best for their children. Ok yep I’m sure you’re right

Well the evidence proves they don't - China want economic dominance, India is probably the most racist and discriminatory place I have been to and Brazil and the whole of Latin America is massively corrupt. They operate literally on a different planet to the Western world

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Some (a lot) of the recent decision making is just shambolic

tbf, it always has been! Detail is not his strong point...

He relies on charm and charisma to get through, the detail has always been slapdash.

 

[Grendel]

I think when BSB was packing his bags for sunny Scotland a few weeks back when a few others inc me said two years is a long time in politics

The Johnson of today struggles in an election campaign, the positivity, cheeriness, ‘boosterism’ etc has gone. I don’t think he’s the same since getting and nearly dying of Covid, add that to the various other issues since (mainly pandemic and Brexit related), sticking with a weak/loyal cabinet rather than a more competent/challenging one plus having a new kid, he just looks done. Some (a lot) of the recent decision making is just shambolic

Whether he gets ‘it’ back for when an elections called, who knows. without it, if Starmer holds middle ground he’s got a very good chance of beating Johnson ...or a Truss or Sunak.

Sunaks obviously bright, apparently extremely hard working but just not sure after 11 years of Tory government how he or Truss, who appears competent, sells another 4 years without someone like Corbyn opposite. As was highlighted in the Blair and Brown doc, there’s a natural negative pull on parties that have been in power for any length of time and post pandemic theres unlikely to be much economic good news pre election to counter that

As I say, who knows though...politics is funny one and Covid could still come up with some surprises that change the political landscape again

There is a past sell by date for parties in power - there is no question of that - but the dying embers of Thatcher / Major and then Blair / Brown you knew was coming. There was a momentum to change. It is not the same here. There is no momentum at all behind Starmer - he's a poor leader and when your deputy clearly hates your guts and you retain her its a problem. He has no passion or drive. Kinnock never was elected but he set the seeds for the party with brave and bold choices. He knew the reason Labour was not electable and stood up against it. Starmer is pathetic really. He stands for nothing - no brand or vision - so with him in charge I do not see the electorate engaging with him. If Labour was a PLC you'd dump him and get Burnham in whatever it cost - but they will not

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Well the evidence proves they don't - China want economic dominance, India is probably the most racist and discriminatory place I have been to and Brazil and the whole of Latin America is massively corrupt. They operate literally on a different planet to the Western world

I wish they did live on a different planet

 

[shmmeee]

There is a past sell by date for parties in power - there is no question of that - but the dying embers of Thatcher / Major and then Blair / Brown you knew was coming. There was a momentum to change. It is not the same here. There is no momentum at all behind Starmer - he's a poor leader and when your deputy clearly hates your guts and you retain her its a problem. He has no passion or drive. Kinnock never was elected but he set the seeds for the party with brave and bold choices. He knew the reason Labour was not electable and stood up against it. Starmer is pathetic really. He stands for nothing - no brand or vision - so with him in charge I do not see the electorate engaging with him. If Labour was a PLC you'd dump him and get Burnham in whatever it cost - but they will not

Agree with a lot of that. What I’d say about Burnham is he’s been entirely different since leaving the PLP. He was drab in the leadership campaign. Milliband as well got much better away from the LOTO office.

I wonder how much Labours problem isn’t the leader but the circus around them. Also there’s a storm brewing with the activists at some point that someone’s going to have to lance and it won’t be pretty. Starmer seems to pull his punches there to avoid the full shitshow and in reality is just extending it.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Agree with a lot of that. What I’d say about Burnham is he’s been entirely different since leaving the PLP. He was drab in the leadership campaign. Milliband as well got much better away from the LOTO office.

I wonder how much Labours problem isn’t the leader but the circus around them. Also there’s a storm brewing with the activists at some point that someone’s going to have to lance and it won’t be pretty. Starmer seems to pull his punches there to avoid the full shitshow and in reality is just extending it.

It seems (bar Corbyn!) that the people in charge of public image are a bit stuck in a rut, in terms of trying to do what worked with Blair. The problem being, of course, that it worked with him because of who he was - it was *really* noticable with Brown (his USP by the time he was leader should have been that he was not-Blair) and Milliband seemed constrained when leader. Starmer, too, is nowhere near as impressive as he was when debating Brexit etc, when he made mincemeat of whoever was in front of him.

Somewhere, they need some flexibility to look at what actually are the selling points of the people they have in front of them. That doesn't mean ditching all the things that got Blair into power, but recognising that you have to work with what you have, and the moment.

tbf to Corbyn, he was at least strong willed enough to show himself as himself more than the others.

 

[chiefdave]

Agree with a lot of that. What I’d say about Burnham is he’s been entirely different since leaving the PLP. He was drab in the leadership campaign. Milliband as well got much better away from the LOTO office.

Is there a limit to how many terms he can have in Manchester? If there isn't it must be very tempting to stay there rather than make a bid to get back into parliament.

 

[chiefdave]

It seems (bar Corbyn!) that the people in charge of public image are a bit stuck in a rut, in terms of trying to do what worked with Blair. The problem being, of course, that it worked with him because of who he was - it was *really* noticable with Brown (his USP by the time he was leader should have been that he was not-Blair) and Milliband seemed constrained when leader. Starmer, too, is nowhere near as impressive as he was when debating Brexit etc, when he made mincemeat of whoever was in front of him.

Too much attention is paid to focus groups and the like and trying to make them something they aren't. Can't be a coincidence that pretty much all leaders, of both parties, come across better post leadership when they don't have the political machine telling them what to do.

 

[shmmeee]

Is there a limit to how many terms he can have in Manchester? If there isn't it must be very tempting to stay there rather than make a bid to get back into parliament.

Metro mayors don’t have term limits apparently:

Everything you need to know about metro mayors: an FAQ

What are metro mayors? How will they govern? What does this mean for local governance? We answer frequently asked questions on the local leaders

www.centreforcities.org

 

[Skybluefaz]

Red Nev has spoken.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Nadine Dorries: Culture secretary says social media has been hijacked

The culture secretary says she doesn't want "to charge out on a culture war battle" in her new role.

www.bbc.co.uk

Dorries making an arse of herself again.

Does she really believe that people can't see the absolutely transparent bias in her argument, as if there isn't any right-wing shit on social media. But I suppose that's just snowflakes getting butt-hurt over people's opinions, whereas the left are stifling free speech by disagreeing

Also standard 'misogynist' claims about her being in the role, rather than criticism being about her as a person. Doubt she sees the irony of complaining about cancel culture when trying to prevent any criticism or debate about government policy or her performance in the role.

The entire thing is a shit fest and it's caused by both sides.

 

[PVA]

She loves to call people snowflakes. As always the people complaining about snowflakes are the biggest snowflakes themselves. Take a look in the mirror, Nadine.

Also imagine appointing someone who once said this as culture secretary: "Gay marriage is a policy which has been pursued by the metro elite gay activists and needs to be put into the bin"

 

[chiefdave]

Marr joins Neil & Kuenssberg in leaving the BBC. He's off to LBC. To be honest he's sadly not been his best since his illness.

Opportunity now for the beeb to revamp their political coverage, be interesting to see who they bring in or promote. Not sure there's any glaringly obvious candidates for internal promotion.

 

[PVA]

They'll bring in whoever the government tell them to bring in, sadly.

 

[clint van damme]

Marr joins Neil & Kuenssberg in leaving the BBC. He's off to LBC. To be honest he's sadly not been his best since his illness.

Opportunity now for the beeb to revamp their political coverage, be interesting to see who they bring in or promote. Not sure there's any glaringly obvious candidates for internal promotion.

He's a tory lackey. Be glad to see the back of the fucking drip.